Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Yet apple remains on the board of directors for Blu Ray and pretty much every other hardware manufacture has adopted BD. The argument holds no weight and BD has become the de facto HD standard currently. Any thing less for a premium product is an insult.

Another weird thing I've noticed - we play HD video on our Macs all the time without blu ray. I think the days of optical media dominating content distribution passed last millennium.
 
so your assumption is that based on sales, these are things that consumers don't want? No one wants quad core or BD or eSata or HDMI? Or they just are getting them from another vendor. profit and feature set is two different issues, and just because apple turns a profit, doesn't mean there is features that are missing that have been requested by the customer.

Nope. I'm just going by the numbers. Apple's Mac line is extremely profitable, and continues to be so today. You're trying to point out or search for a deficiency where there is actually no evidence for one. Apple is making money on computers easily (in a recession), where others struggle to do so.

Sales and numbers tell the tale. It's all in the numbers. Let the public vote with their wallets and not buy Apple. Right now the exact opposite is happening. I'm just doing the easiest thing here, and that's parroting the market trends and numbers. Facts.

We're both making assumptions. I base mine on something tangible and readily available. What are you basing yours on?
 
Well, I've been a Mac user for almost 3 years now.

I've used Mac OS from 10.4.8 up to 10.6.1 now.

I've had two plastic MacBooks replaced due to poor build quality and even worse warranty repair service that left both systems in even worse shape than they were sent out in, and one had a properly functioning display replaced with a defective display.

I've yet to experience the "quality" and "exceptional user experience" that people speak of when it comes to Macs. The build quality has been down right terrible, and OS X is far too limited. On my PC I can be using the system with the built-in display, sleep it, and wake it on my external display. My unibody MacBook running Snow Leopard? Nope. If I want to switch displays I have to shut the system down. If I try to connect my external display while its sleeping, or even sleep the system while already using the external display, when it wakes all of the Finder icons disappear! I did a fresh install of Snow Leopard too. Thats just one of many problems. Another issue is why can't I disable the built-in display in software? Why do I have to start the system with the lid closed or close it to sleep the system and wake it up with the external attached? In Windows I can plug the external monitor in and it just works. If its the first time connecting that monitor, I get prompted with the option of extending or cloning the desktop or just running external only. From that point on it remembers my settings. Or I can change my settings with very little effort in display properties. Yet in the three major revisions of OS X I've used, there is no option for that. Stupid. Windows has done this since Windows 98. I can write a full book here if I'd like. So yeah, I don't get the "exceptional user experience".
I do. :D
 
As of Today :apple: iTunes Store HD content is pathetic, there are very few Movies available.
BluRay is the way to go unless they really make a significant turn around.
 
Well, I've been a Mac user for almost 3 years now.

I've used Mac OS from 10.4.8 up to 10.6.1 now.

I've had two plastic MacBooks replaced due to poor build quality and even worse warranty repair service that left both systems in even worse shape than they were sent out in, and one had a properly functioning display replaced with a defective display.

I've yet to experience the "quality" and "exceptional user experience" that people speak of when it comes to Macs. The build quality has been down right terrible, and OS X is far too limited. On my PC I can be using the system with the built-in display, sleep it, and wake it on my external display. My unibody MacBook running Snow Leopard? Nope. If I want to switch displays I have to shut the system down. If I try to connect my external display while its sleeping, or even sleep the system while already using the external display, when it wakes all of the Finder icons disappear! I did a fresh install of Snow Leopard too. Thats just one of many problems. Another issue is why can't I disable the built-in display in software? Why do I have to start the system with the lid closed or close it to sleep the system and wake it up with the external attached? In Windows I can plug the external monitor in and it just works. If its the first time connecting that monitor, I get prompted with the option of extending or cloning the desktop or just running external only. From that point on it remembers my settings. Or I can change my settings with very little effort in display properties. Yet in the three major revisions of OS X I've used, there is no option for that. Stupid. Windows has done this since Windows 98. I can write a full book here if I'd like. So yeah, I don't get the "exceptional user experience".

You sound like the college kids that come into the Apple store complaining about problems - problems that are what we call id10t errors. The kind of kids that drop their iphones into SOLO cups of beer, throw their laptops on the ground after a long day of class, delete files that shouldn't be deleted, and leave their computers running on blankets for days at a time.
 
then why in the world do you buy mac? you don't like the pricing, you think its build is substandard, and you don't like OSX as much as Vista (I seriously laughed my butt off at that).

that makes absolutely no sense.:rolleyes:

True, makes no sense... if you look at your side of the story. But what also makes no sense is the fact that every apple user would brag about the user experience of apple.
But they forget to mention that the mouse is crap (tracking good, design unusable). Finder has semi useless coverflow and yet no properly functioning cut. There is a severe lack of games available for mac. No webcam works to its full potential with mac osx. Before you say it's built in, I have an 8core mac pro with a dell 30" which as a package was cheaper than any pc offering with the same specs. The list is massive. It also includes crappy apps that have 15 windows open for one app, eg adobe photoshop, ms office. Having them contained within another window is so much more logical and user friendly.

Yes i was cool for a bit for buying a mac. I too bragged. But then my pc using friends start showing me what they can do with their system that i can't with mine. They can add the latest and greatest video card at a cheaper price than the second or third one down the list that apple offers. All i had to brag about is time machine, imovie and expose and my awesome computer tower that weighs a tonne. I feel a little cheated let down like a lot of people by the severe mac fanbois. When you weigh in all the pros and cons from both pc (i'm talking about carefully selected harware + wondows7) and mac, they come come out as equal in my opinion.

These are not all superficial things, they are all pretty significant.

If its browsing you do and hate viruses, get a mac. If you know what you are doing and not clicking useless sh*t, get a pc but use opera and not IE8.

To sum it up, i want a proper mouse offering by apple that I can play games and use opera mouse gestures with. And top of the range video card and webcam support for mac OSX. (the hardware can take it i swear, it works with win7 on the exact same machine). They are spreading themselves too thinly accross soo many parts of the end user experience. When the iPhone came in, OSX suffered a huge loss. (But we did gain the best phone ever, but OSX shouldn't have suffered because of it).

I am intel and i approve this message.
 
mosx: I had the same issues with the plastic enclosure of my white MacBook, it is a piece of cheap plastic. However how that is related to this thread?


SHOW ME THE FOTOS?
 
Grand Central Dispatch.

Apple didn't spend a huge amount of time and money developing this to not use it to it's maximum potential. Currently, it's really only the Mac Pro line that's going to make full use of GCD. I would therefore expect the new iMacs to have some sort of Quad Core processors to make use of GCD and Apple's investement.

I wouldn't expect the iMac line-up to become too powerful though as you have to consider Apple's pricing and specification structure. There has to be a visible price/performance divide between the top-end iMac and the lowest spec Mac Pro.

:apple:
 
True, makes no sense... if you look at your side of the story. But what also makes no sense is the fact that every apple user would brag about the user experience of apple.
But they forget to mention that the mouse is crap (tracking good, design unusable). Finder has semi useless coverflow and yet no properly functioning cut. There is a severe lack of games available for mac. No webcam works to its full potential with mac osx. Before you say it's built in, I have an 8core mac pro with a dell 30" which as a package was cheaper than any pc offering with the same specs. The list is massive. It also includes crappy apps that have 15 windows open for one app, eg adobe photoshop, ms office. Having them contained within another window is so much more logical and user friendly.

Yes i was cool for a bit for buying a mac. I too bragged. But then my pc using friends start showing me what they can do with their system that i can't with mine. They can add the latest and greatest video card at a cheaper price than the second or third one down the list that apple offers. All i had to brag about is time machine, imovie and expose and my awesome computer tower that weighs a tonne. I feel a little cheated let down like a lot of people by the severe mac fanbois. When you weigh in all the pros and cons from both pc (i'm talking about carefully selected harware + wondows7) and mac, they come come out as equal in my opinion.

These are not all superficial things, they are all pretty significant.

If its browsing you do and hate viruses, get a mac. If you know what you are doing and not clicking useless sh*t, get a pc but use opera and not IE8.

To sum it up, i want a proper mouse offering by apple that I can play games and use opera mouse gestures with. And top of the range video card and webcam support for mac OSX. (the hardware can take it i swear, it works with win7 on the exact same machine). They are spreading themselves too thinly accross soo many parts of the end user experience. When the iPhone came in, OSX suffered a huge loss. (But we did gain the best phone ever, but OSX shouldn't have suffered because of it).

I am intel and i approve this message.

If the MP was the most affordable way to get those specs, just put windows on that machine and stop complaining.
 
I just bought a new iMac, so i hope an iMac refresh is nothing major so i’m not too sad. lol. I’m waiting a bit for a 17” MacBook Pro but i’d love to see a new Mighty Mouse. I like the current one, but it doesn’t offer much.. plus it drains batteries like crazy!
 
then why in the world do you buy mac?

I bought my Mac in 2007. I had liked what I had used prior to my purchase and was all caught up in the hype of OS X. It wasn't until after the return window had closed that the problems with OS X started and the hardware started to show its limitations. I couldn't return it by the time I knew I was not satisfied with it. I've tried several times to sell it unsuccessfully. People back out because they realize they can get a better deal with a PC.

you don't like the pricing

They're overpriced. $1499 for a "desktop" with a dual core processor and integrated graphics? Only a sucker is gonna fall for that.

you think its build is substandard

Considering I had two units fail multiple times because of build quality, that would be true.

and you don't like OSX as much as Vista (I seriously laughed my butt off at that).

Go ahead and laugh at that. Let me know when OS X finally fully supports bitstream decoding of video playback, gets proper multi-display support.. better yet, let me know when OS X FINALLY gets cut and paste support in Finder.


And yet they continued to see strong growth for years and years and even in the current economic environment, where PC manufacturers can't seem to sell anything but cheap netbooks, Apple is seeing far smaller sales declines and while they are reducing prices, they are not having to reduce them by many hundreds of dollars to generate demand.

Okay, that couldn't be further from the truth as far as PC sales are concerned. True, netbooks are selling good. But HP, Dell, etc. are still selling tens of millions more units of standard computers per year than Apple.

As Steve Jobs once put it, for Apple to double its market share it only has to go from 3% to 6%. In an industry as large as the computer industry, thats not much of an achievement.

Has anyone ever considered that maybe Apple just doesn't want to be the biggest computer manufacturer in the world in terms of units shipped? It doesn't seem to have done wonders for IBM or HP or Dell over the long term. Apple seems to make more money than any of them and enjoys a higher stock price because of it.

Apple makes more money because they charge double sometimes triple what their computers are worth.

Again, a $1499 "desktop" computer with a dual core processor and integrated graphics and a 24" screen? I could build something far more powerful for $1,000 less with a similar quality screen.

I want a quad-core 17" MacBook Pro something fierce. I don't want to maintain a separate mobile and desktop unit so I want a "desktop replacement" Mac with serious (but not ridiculous) power. And I'd like it to cost $1999, but I'd pay $2999 for it.

Why would you pay $2999 for something that already exists in the PC market for more than $1,000 less? In fact, HP has a quad core 17.3" system for $1,349.

Usually where Apple gets points back is on their splendid customer service - the only thing a company can do to combat the pathetic state of the hardware mfg

"Splendid customer service"? Hmm . I don't know about that. Apple only took care of me because I live in California and we have some of the strongest consumer protection laws in the world. I could have named Steve Jobs in a small claims lawsuit and had him served directly.

I also went without a Mac for nearly 3 months combined because of their "splendid" customer service returning my Mac in worse shape than I sent it out in.

My advice to you: sell your Mac on ebay or Craigslist (for probably 50-75% of it's original cost, which tells you something about others findings the strengths of these machines hitting their sweet spots), and move back to a Windows-based PC. Seems like it's strengths match up with your needs better than Macs.

I truly wish I could sell it. Every time I try the person backs out because they find a better deal on a Windows PC. It's happened 3 times now.

But its okay. For the moment my Mac is happy running Windows 7 as the primary OS and Snow Leopard just for updates.

There are going to be bad Apples in every bunch, but I'd be careful about projecting anecdotal experiences onto the market at large.

As I've said many times before, Apple's customer service ratings are highly skewed. You have people at this forum who have had their motherboards fail half a dozen times, yet they're still "satisfied" and happy with Apple. If you have one hardware failure of that magnitude in a PC product, that customer will never buy from that company again. Apple's brand loyalty is what keeps their customer service ratings high. Though I do know of a large number of people who have had a run in with Apple support who will not be purchasing another Apple product as a result of the way Apple builds their products and treats their customers.

I think Apple's pricing is genius: they aren't selling machines based on the list of specs, but on emotion and desire.

So you think its genius of Apple to rip people off based on their need for vanity products rather than products that would actually help them in the real world?

Taking that margin and never innovating would be pathetic, but doing what Apple does, taking that margin and using it to innovate and take larger and larger risks is refreshing.

What innovation would that be? Glass screens? Already had been done. The two tone design? They stole it from HP. They stole the keyboard from Sony. They have no standard features like eSATA or HDMI or multi-card readers or even full size ExpressCard. The battery? My 12 cell HP battery was giving me 7 hours of battery life for almost a year before the new MacBook "Pro" was introduced.

You sound like the college kids that come into the Apple store complaining about problems - problems that are what we call id10t errors. The kind of kids that drop their iphones into SOLO cups of beer, throw their laptops on the ground after a long day of class, delete files that shouldn't be deleted, and leave their computers running on blankets for days at a time.

This is the funniest thing about Apple's fanbase. Apple can do NO WRONG. It is ALWAYS the users fault.

So lets see here. It's MY fault that Apple shipped my first Mac with a bum DVD writer and a plastic case that turned yellow and cracked with heat?

It's MY fault that they screwed up the repair so many times that they had to replace the system?

It's MY fault that I only use my then new MacBook to convert the occasional video for my iPod and yet that amount of heat still caused case cracking and battery warping?

It's MY fault that even after they replaced that case, it happened again a few months later? The case and battery on that plastic Mac was about 7 months old. The battery had barely over 10 cycles on it! Yet the case still cracked from heat even though I only used it enough to keep the battery healthy and to convert the occasional video. Yet thats MY fault that it cracked? It literally NEVER left the desk and it only moved a little bit. It was never set down on the back in a manner that would affect the area that cracked.

It's MY fault that Apple's contracted technicians broke my display during the repair process and replaced it with a defective one? Uh huh.

It's my fault Apple won't build proper display support into OS X?

It's my fault that OS X completely locked up when I inserted a DVD? hah!
 
What innovation would that be? Glass screens? Already had been done. The two tone design? They stole it from HP. They stole the keyboard from Sony. They have no standard features like eSATA or HDMI or multi-card readers or even full size ExpressCard. The battery? My 12 cell HP battery was giving me 7 hours of battery life for almost a year before the new MacBook "Pro" was introduced.

If you don't see any innovations coming out of Apple, I guess we can see quite clearly what slant you are coming from.
 
No one wants quad core or BD or eSata or HDMI?

One might actually be able to make just such an argument when you look at the sales and inventory trends the past 12 months in the Wintel world where about the only things moving are low-performance, low-cost Netbooks that lack BR, eSATA, quad-core CPUs and HDMI.

Dell and HP and Lenovo may be offering high-powered notebooks that pack everything and the kitchen sink in them, but they're all sitting on pallets in warehouses.
 
Another weird thing I've noticed - we play HD video on our Macs all the time without blu ray. I think the days of optical media dominating content distribution passed last millennium.

can people who have obviously never seen a blu-ray movie on a nice high-res screen please stop criticizing blu-ray?
 
One might actually be able to make just such an argument when you look at the sales and inventory trends the past 12 months in the Wintel world where about the only things moving are low-performance, low-cost Netbooks that lack BR, eSATA, quad-core CPUs and HDMI.

Dell and HP and Lenovo may be offering high-powered notebooks that pack everything and the kitchen sink in them, but they're all sitting on pallets in warehouses.

I agree. You know, all those things would be fine, but what I really want is for my video camera to get recognized when I plug it in, and have my laptop remember my WPA password when I get home from work with it. The hard core "computer guys" always assume that everyone wants the latest and greatest, when in fact, the "regular Joe" know that the latest and greatest usually comes with new problems and headaches that we simply don't have the time and energy to arm wrestle with. Our needs are much more simple, more fundamental. My iMac seems to function very well for me in that sweet spot.
 
Another weird thing I've noticed - we play HD video on our Macs all the time without blu ray. I think the days of optical media dominating content distribution passed last millennium.

Where do you find 1080p movies at 30-40 Mbps with all the menus and features?

A 720p stream compressed to 2-3 Mbps techinically has the pixels to be called HD - but the experience is nothing like BD - "the real thing".
 
Where do you find 1080p movies at 30-40 Mbps with all the menus and features?

A 720p stream compressed to 2-3 Mbps techinically has the pixels to be called HD - but the experience is nothing like BD - "the real thing".

We watch the shows/movies and pay little attention to all the technical stuff. We are all about the content. Most of our HD archive was recorded on our Tivo - 720p or 1080i, and transferred to the Macs. Blu ray for people like us is huge overkill.
 
Everybody without a digital camera ? Like 7 people.

Make that eight - I don't have one. :)

Everyone I know simply plugs the camera into the computer. Few people would bother fiddling about trying to get the tiny card out of the camera just to transfer some images across. It no doubt makes more sense if you have lots of cards and use them as some sort of archival storage, but then that's what other companies make small USB card readers for.
 
Where do you find 1080p movies at 30-40 Mbps with all the menus and features?

A 720p stream compressed to 2-3 Mbps techinically has the pixels to be called HD - but the experience is nothing like BD - "the real thing".

Does the "real thing" matter on any of the screen sizes of normal computers?
 
iMacs have 24" screens, which not that long ago was considered a very nice size for a television. in fact, until a few months i was fine w/ a decrepit old 19 inch samsung.

anti blu-ray people, who prefer to eat their meat out of tin cans because they only care about the nutrients, fine -- i relate (honestly). but a lot of us occasionally like to dine out on filet mignon, & we should have that choice. if blu-ray is included, until it becomes industry standard youre likely going to have a choice b/w superdrive & blu-ray, so just **** already. you only sound like apple toadies.
 
Weird - I'm using a mouse right now made by Apple just this year that has 4 buttons.

Yep, it has four buttons ... three of which I usually turn off immediately when instlling a new Mac for someone (especially that horribly annoying squeeze nonsense). A Mac only really needs one mouse button, the OS has been designed that way ever since the original Mac, although it does allow more for those who think they need more ... or who are simply too lazy to move the mouse to the top of their 50ft displays to get to the menubar. ;)
 
iMacs have 24" screens, which not that long ago was considered a very nice size for a television. in fact, until a few months i was fine w/ a decrepit old 19 inch samsung.

anti blu-ray people, who prefer to eat their meat out of tin cans because they only care about the nutrients, fine -- i relate (honestly). but a lot of us occasionally like to dine out on filet mignon, & we should have that choice. if blu-ray is included, until it becomes industry standard youre likely going to have a choice b/w superdrive & blu-ray, so just **** already. you only sound like apple toadies.

I was referring to the idea (which Ive read about on several sites like gizmodo/engadget) that the difference between 720/1080 isn't even noticeable until your dealing with screens over a certain size (i think it was 32"ish)
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.