Next Generation Intel Platform (Santa Rosa) Tracking For May

[Manic Mouse]

Hey gang,

Long time PC user, getting ready to leave the darkside. I don't really need another computer at the moment, but something is attracting me to the MacBooks. I'm currently looking at the 2.0GHz Core 2 Duo Model.

I'm not a big gamer, but as far as playing the pricing game, should I wait for the Santa Rosa's to roll out.

When do you all expect MacBooks based on the Santa Rosa will be rolled out?

You should wait, there are so many good things around the corner. Not just Santa Rosa but Leopard, iLife 07 and possibly LED screens. Buying now would be a little shortsighted IMHO with so much being upgraded in the next few months. I'm in the same boat buddy, I'm dying for a MacBook, but I will wait until they upgrade to Santa Rosa and release Leopard and iLife 07.

And since you mention that you're in no particular need for a computer at the moment there's no harm in waiting.

 

[tuosfan]

The Core 2 Duo macbook has a decent pricepoint, I'm worried that the new ones will be out of my price range, however.. waiting would also bring the price of the current ones down...

 

[Manic Mouse]

The Core 2 Duo macbook has a decent pricepoint, I'm worried that the new ones will be out of my price range, however.. waiting would also bring the price of the current ones down...

The price-point of Apple products generally doesn't change with time, they just get better specs. I wouldn't expect the Santa Rosa Macbook to cost significantly more than the current one. It may even be the exact same price.

Did the price increase between the CD and C2D MacBooks? Not as far as I can remember...

Personally I've been looking at MacBooks ever since they were released. I think that when the Santa Rosa MacBook is released it will be the perfect time to buy: You get brand new hardware along with a brand new OS and suite of applications compared to if you buy today.

 

[DMann]

MacBook

The price-point of Apple products generally doesn't change with time, they just get better specs. I wouldn't expect the Santa Rosa Macbook to cost significantly more than the current one. It may even be the exact same price.

Did the price increase between the CD and C2D MacBooks? Not as far as I can remember...

Personally I've been looking at MacBooks ever since they were released. I think that when the Santa Rosa MacBook is released it will be the perfect time to buy: You get brand new hardware along with a brand new OS and suite of applications compared to if you buy today.

That would be a home run, now wouldn't it? Great point!

 

[sluthy]

Will the first SR MBs be a possible 'Rev. A' situation? What will SR change?

• CPU? I think they stick with Merom, so no real drama there
• GPU? Hopefully the MBP will have discrete graphics anyway, but there shouldn't be any dramas with X3000 drivers...should there?
• Is there any difference between Airport Draft-N and Intel's new WiFi chip? Do Apple even use the Intel chip?
• Robson solid state HDD. Could there potentially be a heat/compatibility problem here? I think if there are any possible hardware issues, they would be here.

Just wondering.

 

[matticus008]

And some of the teardown sites say the MacBook is using the 945PM chipset, and the iMac the 945GM chipset.

The MacBook can't use the 945PM--no integrated graphics. The iMac with integrated graphics would have to use the 945GM. The iMac with discrete graphics also likely couldn't use the lower cost GM, because it doesn't ship with an external x16 graphics hookup, which is necessary for the ATI card.

Based on Apple's history, they are likely still using the same chipset across the entire line. Unless you get a clear picture and can see for yourself.

That wouldn't make sense. They're now using a wide availability chipset, not a custom Intrepid controller as with the PowerPC Macs. They cannot use the same products across the board--the Mac Pro uses a different chipset out of necessity and nothing on the MacBook Pro has ever suggested anything other than the 945PM, unless you have a source. They are therefore using at least 3 different chipsets.

It is an old cost saving measure from the R&D standpoint implemented years ago, and allows them to nail some of the discount benchmarks on the quantity standpoint from Intel.

Keyword "old." Integrated graphics have necessarily changed that operation. It would be wasteful to use a GM chipset in the MacBook Pro, which would require costly custom modification to connect an external PCIe graphics system. The G chipset family often lacks the high-bandwidth external expansion for real graphics slots and wouldn't be conducive to use in the MacBook Pro because it would also increase power consumption.

If they fragment the iMac, Mini, MacBook/MacBook Pro into discrete vs. integrated laptop chipset -- the hopes of a consumer tower based on an actual desktop chipset goes downhill, as does moving the iMac to a desktop chipset.

There already is separation. Multiple sources confirm that the MacBook Pro and iMac (discrete) use the 945PM while the mini, iMac (integraated), and MacBook use the 945GM. One of these sources is PC Magazine in their official iMac review.

 

[Sun Baked]

Hey gang,

I'm not a big gamer, but as far as playing the pricing game, should I wait for the Santa Rosa's to roll out.

When do you all expect MacBooks based on the Santa Rosa will be rolled out?

The pricing game only works on old stock where you may get a 15-20% discount on the old model, and pay about the same for the new machine. Prices tend not to change much.

---

Due to Apple's required volume, the phase in will likely begin to happen 4-8 weeks after they appear in PC notebooks.

It isn't that Apple sells a lot, they just have a single chipset concentrated in the bulk of their products making the replacement of those machines a bit more troublesome than simply introducing another new machine with one more chipset.

 

[Sun Baked]

There already is separation. Multiple sources confirm that the MacBook Pro and iMac (discrete) use the 945PM while the mini, iMac (integraated), and MacBook use the 945GM. One of these sources is PC Magazine in their official iMac review.

And some of the sites like kodawarisan show in enough detail to read part numbers both a 945GM and an ATI chip in the same Intel iMac, but those of course are the CoreDuo machines.

I haven't seen the new Core2Duo machines with the part numbers.

To use both makes sense, but of course this is Apple who likes to use a single core design across the board for consumer machines and notebooks.

 

[matticus008]

To use both makes sense, but of course this is Apple who likes to use a single core design across the board for consumer machines and notebooks.

Agreed, but I think that in this case the "single core design" is the Intel 945 reference platform. The GM and PM are after all only variants of the same northbridge and both use ICH7 southbridges. I'm 99.9% certain that the 2.16GHz C2D iMac uses the 945PM (and PC Magazine confirms it; the consensus on the MBP is also that it is 945PM) and we've clearly seen the 945GM in use elsewhere in their lineup. Ultimately, it's the same chipset and doesn't violate their standard unified practice.

 

[rane]

Gah.
Seeing all these estimations about Santa Rosa I can't really decide whether I should buy MacBook now or later. I'd love to get it now, not that I really need it. I'm just bit afraid of the upgrade coming in September or August as some of you have stated.

 

[gnasher729]

Will I be be able to buy the Santa Rosa program in my macbook I just ordered or am I basically screwed?

You are screwed. I'll give you five pounds for your worthless MacBook. Better sell it to me before it explodes because it is ashamed of having the wrong chipset.

 

[gnasher729]

There was some talk on a Linux kernel dev trac that says the EMT64 chips only support up to 48 bit memory addressing or something, and a special patch had to be released to support Intel chips.

48 bit memory addressing = 262,144 GB of memory.

That's over ten million dollars worth of memory even if you get memory for $40 per GB, which is a bit hard to find. Somehow I find that this limitation doesn't bother me at all.

 

[gnasher729]

Yes, I do understand. However, what I was referring to was having
the transistors reduced to 45 nm, in combination with the new insulating
material, would produce far less heat, thus enabling them to clock at much
higher frequencies. Heat and signal leakage have both made up the
Achilles Heal of progress on this front for some time.

And if you had read a bit more you would have seen that this is not going to happen. With the new process, the chip designer can choose whether each individual transistor runs at 20% lower speed and 5 times lower power consumption, or at same speed and same power consumption, and obviously you can fit twice as many transistors into the same space.

With no further design work, Intel can build processors with twenty percent lower speed and 5 times lower power. Or processors with twice as many cores, each core 20 percent slower (but twice as many more than makes up for that) and 2.5 times less power. With lots of redesign and carefully picking which parts to make fast and which not the slowdown can be much reduced while mostly keeping the power savings, but that is a lot of work for Intel.

 

[Butthead]

I hadn't checked to be sure, but why would the MacBook Pro use the integrated graphics chipset over the discrete graphics chipset (945G vs. 945P?)

They would not unless no other discrete GPU's significantly outperformed Intels offering, which they do now, so expect higher performance GPU's in MBP's, and cost savings integrated graphics in the MB, Mac mini, and some iMac's (perhaps all this round).

Also, why, when the next chipset comes out, would they use the integrated graphics one over the discrete graphics one? It generates more heat (even when the integrated graphics aren't being used,) and incurs extra expense.

More heat? How much? Higher performance GPU's general much more heat than either of Apple's current discrete or integrated solutions. It's merely a cost saving reason for using the integrated GPU (might be some minor space saving engineering cost reductions also).

Besides, ATI's chips do support multiple external connections, if Apple and ATI/AMD choose to enable them.

Apple does, what Apple does , they don't even have an true HD res. screen on the 17in MBP, and you think they care if you don't have twin monitor capability on the portables? (rhetorical question, btw).

Hmm, so I read through the entire thread, and one thing I don't see is the typical skepticism about the source of the story. So, what if they're wrong, and SR Mac's start shipping in April (thought I think Think Secret is just grasping at thin air when they postulate about an HD screen 17in MBP annoucement at NAB)? Or there wrong and they start shipping (not just Apple) in June, when the chipset group finally is available in numbers. I would think every manufacturer will try to ship as soon as quantity is available.

Lets hope the next update to the MBP line includes a 160GB 7.2k drive option, like the one annouced by Fujitsu recently.

So the 45nm process is running a little ahead of schedule, or is right on time. Then we could see a MBP update to this by MWSF or earlier? Kind of makes you want to wait on buying any upgrade until then, unless you really, really need that SR chipset upgrade (assuming there are not many more irresistable hardware enhancements). If claims (recall the Merom was supposed to use less power) about 45nm process come to fruition, then you'd have a very significant longer run-time for the same clock rates.

 

[Manic Mouse]

I would like to see an upgrade in screen res on the portable line. My 3 year old 15.4inch DELL laptop has a 1650*1050 screen which the MacBook Pro still can't compete with.

 

[PCMacUser]

I would like to see an upgrade in screen res on the portable line. My 3 year old 15.4inch DELL laptop has a 1650*1050 screen which the MacBook Pro still can't compete with.

Yep, I hear ya. Even my 15" work laptop has a 1920*1200 resolution. It's long overdue for Apple to come to the party in that respect...

 

[jmyers0341]

Great...

Just as I bought my new MBP... awesome. Same thing happened when I bought my last iMac... the iSight/FrontRow version came out literally 15 days later...

 

[Evangelion]

Just as I bought my new MBP... awesome. Same thing happened when I bought my last iMac... the iSight/FrontRow version came out literally 15 days later...

relax, Santa Rosa isn't due for few months. Or did you really expect that Intel/Apple would not release a new amd improved product now that you have bought your computer? Fact is that we will see improved computer rougly twice a year or so. Get used to it. Of course you could just wait for the "next improved model", but you would be waiting forever.

 

[Simon R.]

Hmm, so I read through the entire thread, and one thing I don't see is the typical skepticism about the source of the story. So, what if they're wrong, and SR Mac's start shipping in April (thought I think Think Secret is just grasping at thin air when they postulate about an HD screen 17in MBP annoucement at NAB)?

There is soooo much unfounded speculation inhere - it almost makes me laugh "When will Leopard be out?": "March", "April", "May", "August", "2008". Oh.. great. Very clever and highly informed sources

I too am looking to buy a MacBook to carry on me when travelling so I can still do work if I need to. I am going on vacation in july. So, according to most "sources" here, I will be able to buy a new one with the new CPU in may or june at the very latest. But you know what? I don't believe it. The chipset is expected to ship in may. So my conservative guess is we will see new MacBook during fall. Let's see who is right when we get to september 1st Not that I HOPE I am right. I would love to get one before july, but I don't believe it.

 

[tuosfan]

considering that macs are being sold next to other pc's at circuit city and best buy, i'd say they hafta stay on top of the game, wouldn't you?

no, considering circuit city and best buy don't sell apples

 

[weldon]

no, considering circuit city and best buy don't sell apples

Best Buy sells them in some locations and Circuity City sells them on their website.

 

[siefrat@barak.n]

what does it mean?

Can someone please tell me what this really means? I don't play games (well, except for word games); our kids do, but they're only 10. I'm about to order 5 iMacs, which is a heck of a lot of money, and I want to know whether or not it makes sense to wait, that is, will we be getting anything fantastic if we wait?

And if it is "tracking for May" what does that mean? When will it actually be in the hands of consumers?

Thanks!

susan

 

[matticus008]

Can someone please tell me what this really means? I don't play games (well, except for word games); our kids do, but they're only 10. I'm about to order 5 iMacs, which is a heck of a lot of money, and I want to know whether or not it makes sense to wait, that is, will we be getting anything fantastic if we wait?

What kind of computer are they using now for games? Santa Rosa is an evolutionary update which ultimately doesn't amount to much for the bulk of end users. It does signify a repositioning of products--it gives them a new place to go since they are now seeing the "red line" of some current technologies.

It would be wise, in my opinion, to get at least one of those five iMacs with an ATi graphics card in case your kids do start playing more demanding games in the next couple years. Generally speaking though, the only reason to consider waiting is for Leopard, but since that could be three months away still, you should buy based on your current needs, not on future projections.

And if it is "tracking for May" what does that mean? When will it actually be in the hands of consumers?

It means that they're anticipating being able to put these products into fabrication in May. There could be (and often are) delays, long or short, and retail channel availability varies. They will almost certainly be available in OEM trays before Apple products with them ship. The bottom line is that the only certain thing is that there will not be an iMac with Santa Rosa before May or June, but also probably not after July, if it really does launch in May as planned.

 

[Multimedia]

You'll Save $1290 by Waiting For Leopard & iLife '07

Can someone please tell me what this really means? I don't play games (well, except for word games); our kids do, but they're only 10. I'm about to order 5 iMacs, which is a heck of a lot of money, and I want to know whether or not it makes sense to wait, that is, will we be getting anything fantastic if we wait?

And if it is "tracking for May" what does that mean? When will it actually be in the hands of consumers?

Thanks!

susan

5 x $129 = $645 for all the Leopards
5 x $129 = $645 for all the iLife '07s

Total $1290 saved by waiting.

No quesiton you wait to buy 5 iMacs until after Leopard and iLife '07 are shipping with them. And you should wait for the next refresh to get latest hardware no matter what you can't see why now.

 

[TheAnswer]

5 x $129 = $645 for all the Leopards
5 x $129 = $645 for all the iLife '07s

Total $1290 saved by waiting.

Well, they could buy the family pack upgrades and reduce the savings to just
$199+$99=$298 total.