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Next-Generation Mac Pro to Receive Temporary Exclusive of Six-Core 'Gulftown' Processor?

Bafflefish said:
Actually, Apple/Intel could work on getting SLI on the Mac Pros. SLI isn't only available to nVidia-made chipsets. nVidia also licenses it out for other platforms (the X58 chipset for socket 1366 i7s and the P55 chipset for socket 1156 i5's/i7's both have SLI support due to nVidia licensing, and both are Intel-made chipsets). You would simply have to see Apple and Intel work on incorporating SLI support, and have Apple license it from nVidia.

And as the market is now, why would you want to see Apple change to AMD? While the top of the line Phenom X4s are competitive with the top Core 2 Quads, Intel's i7/Nehalem-based processors are generally quite a bit faster than anything AMD can provide, and that doesn't appear to be changing soon. If iMacs do get switched over to using Clarksfield-based i7s, you should see a pretty decent performance increase over the current Core 2s.

And yeah, the Radeon 5*** series is pretty awesome. Given the power management changes and such, here's hoping we can see at least the 5850 make it over to be an upgrade option on the next iMacs.

Edit - Woops, realized people answered this already :p (well, part of it)
Click to expand...

SLI also has nothing to do with the legal situation with Intel about whether or not Nvidia will continue with SLI.

The chipset on the motherboard dealing with networking, the upper and lower bridge set is what deals with their lawsuit and Intel not extending a license to Nvidia to roll their own for 3rd party motherboards.

SLI is what Nvidia licenses to Intel.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/io_1249876351744.html
 
sorry for the late reply, been busy :p

AidenShaw said:
It's not silly, at all.
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for consumers i meant. sorry. but seriously. why would i or the other hundreds of thousands of people that use computers need them? more money for nothing really.

ECC typically does two things:
  1. If a read (usually for 64-bits of data) contains a single bit error, ECC will correct the error, return good data to the CPU, and flag the error for the error logs
  2. If a read gets two or more bits in error, the ECC controller will raise a fatal hardware exception

What this means is that those cosmic ray hits are ignored, the single bit error is fixed.

However, if there's a real error (2 bits or more), it's BSOD or kernel panic time.
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can it not fix the error? CRC/hamming etc cannot fix these?


Look around at the number of times people ask about strange system problems, and the response is "have you tested your memory?".
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that just seems a standard response, much like "run the OSX install disc hardware check".


Unfortunately, no laptops and few desktop chipsets support ECC memory - so there's not much to argue about.
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and for good reason. there is no need for a casual user to have it. if you want the ECC compatibility (which are meant mainly for server implementations) then you have to pay the extra cash for that feature.

If I were to build a new system today, I'd use the Xeon 3500 instead of the Core i7 so that I could use ECC memory.
Click to expand...
there is nothing stopping you from doing that at all, would you really need it but? i guess being in the networking/admin area you might need it.

So, in my mind, the more important reason for ECC is not to protect from cosmic rays - it's to never have to wonder if some problem is due to a failing DIMM.
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which is where your head should rightfully be sitting IMO. as i have always been saying, there is no need to worry about something that hardly exists/doesnt pose a threat.

Umbongo said:
DRAM is the memory chip type used on current computer memory modules. ECC is a feature present on the modules.
Click to expand...
what about FB-DIMM haha :p

There seems to be more attention being paid to the cosmic ray part than needs to be. I think I was the one who brought it up, but really I intended to just reference external, unpredictable outside forces that can cause errors in memory (ever present radiation). The memory manufacturers do all they can, but it isn't an exact science. Modern production techniques have reduced the effects of these external forces, but as memory sizes grow by large amounts the errors are still something to be concerned about. You just have no idea what bit in which DIMM in which system will get flipped. Because it is so random you need to use whatever methods you can to protect against it if it has the potential to cause issue. It's just insurance. It also reports and can correct hard errors.
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it would be very hard to track where the bits are flipped (would also be slow too). some sort of table could be kept on a HDD but that would be SO slow checking all the time (just a random idea).
 
Palestrina said:
That's great, Apple. Why no BluRay?
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Previously, it was because Apple took great pride in being so far ahead of the curve, it was so far behind the curve for today's pro content creators as to be almost useless.

However, the market demands it and Blu-ray is almost here on Apple, after having been dragged to the absolute brink, kicking and screaming, by pro content creators, not a small base of highest-end Apple users.

Apple, Inc. is many things; suicidal is not one of them (anymore.) However, to cover up their lagging in the market, Blu-ray won't be leaked any more than it has been, so they can make a big deal out of it. Like every other cutting-edge technology they're eventually forced to implement against their will.

:apple:
 
Bafflefish said:
Actually, Apple/Intel could work on getting SLI on the Mac Pros. SLI isn't only available to nVidia-made chipsets. nVidia also licenses it out for other platforms (the X58 chipset for socket 1366 i7s and the P55 chipset for socket 1156 i5's/i7's both have SLI support due to nVidia licensing, and both are Intel-made chipsets). You would simply have to see Apple and Intel work on incorporating SLI support, and have Apple license it from nVidia.
Click to expand...

And this little pout is going to bring an end to that. nVidia can just not renew their license when the time comes. Plus Custom Chips might not be a part of the license. (Cuz apple sure as hell dont run off the mill Chipsets)

Bafflefish said:
And as the market is now, why would you want to see Apple change to AMD? While the top of the line Phenom X4s are competitive with the top Core 2 Quads, Intel's i7/Nehalem-based processors are generally quite a bit faster than anything AMD can provide, and that doesn't appear to be changing soon. If iMacs do get switched over to using Clarksfield-based i7s, you should see a pretty decent performance increase over the current Core 2s.
Click to expand...

A, Vantage scores means jack ****. Synthetic results are no where near a clear indication for real life performance.

B, Apple? Change over from Core2Duo? Are you on crack?.. (Oh Wait :D)

Bafflefish said:
And yeah, the Radeon 5*** series is pretty awesome. Given the power management changes and such, here's hoping we can see at least the 5850 make it over to be an upgrade option on the next iMacs.

Edit - Woops, realized people answered this already :p (well, part of it)
Click to expand...

Even if the G300 series are "better", the performance better justify the price tag that we know were getting.
 
I think the people who conceived the FB-DIMM for DDR2 decided against making one for DDR3...
 
diamond.g said:
Right, that is due to Intel making FB-DIMM needed (potentially) in the MP configurations only.
Click to expand...

A memory system designed for them can support more FB-DIMMs than other types of RAM - which is why they show up in servers. (The buffering makes them more stable when many DIMM slots are on a single controller.)
 
AidenShaw said:
It's not silly, at all.

ECC typically does two things:
  1. If a read (usually for 64-bits of data) contains a single bit error, ECC will correct the error, return good data to the CPU, and flag the error for the error logs
  2. If a read gets two or more bits in error, the ECC controller will raise a fatal hardware exception

What this means is that those cosmic ray hits are ignored, the single bit error is fixed.
Click to expand...

Wha? cosmic rays causing computer issues? How the hell am i suppose to trouble shoot that. Maybe thats whats up with my computer. Leave it to AidenShaw to point out the finer details.

Thanks AidenShaw, your posts are always informative.
 
ehurtley said:
Supposedly, Gulftown is 100% backward compatible with X58/5520 chipsets used by Bloomfield/Gainestown now. So yes, you should be able to throw a Gulftown in a board made for Socket 1366 i7 now; or two of them into a Xeon 5500-series board, such as the Mac Pro. (Just like with the original Mac Pro, which could take "Clovertown" quad-core processors, even though it only launched with dual-core "Woodcrest".)
Click to expand...

You do forget some small but significant facts. Woodcrest and Clovertown used the same 65nm manufacturing process. 2009 Nehalems used 45nm and the 2010 Gulftown will have the Westmere 32nm process. When a die shrink occurred in the past (Xeon 5300 to 5400) new micro code was required and Apple did not issue EFI updates to enable the new code on old machines. So it isn't sufficient to just look at the socket but other points have to be considered. The new micro code will not only be necessitated by the die shrink but also by the recognition of bigger RAM capacities. The memory management resides in the CPU now and upgrades will have to be accomodated by new micro code. I'm no expert on that point but it sounds plausible to me.

A second point to look for is the chipset. I doubt that a tenfold increase in the PCIe to Ethernet bridge will be done on the same chipset. So the southbridge may change as well. The Gulftowns may be flexible enough to work with different chipsets but I would not put it past Apple to use this as an artificial compatibility disruptor.

Some body already pointed out that Apple in known history have never upgraded the firmware to give better after sales service and upgrade potential. Quite contrary they introduced very dodgy hardware solutions to stop people from upgrading. One prominent example for this is the use of lidless CPUs in the 2009 octads. The second is the lack of clamp less sockets in the same machine. Particularly the lack of clamps is a brain fart beyond imagination. CPU clamps have been standard since pre Pentium days. The lack of clamps turns any CPU related service task into a 2000$ Russian roulette game. The smalles reversal of the downstroke when you push the heat sink down will see the CPU come out of the socket because it is already stuck to the thermal grease. If you do a minor rotation you mismatch the CPU and the socket angle and one of the 1366 little blade springs in the socket can get damaged. Next you have a fatal short circuit and your glorious 6-core CPU plus logic board (or CPU tray) is up in smoke.
 
When will the new Mac Pro be released?

I have a pending order for 4 Mac Pro units from my apple reseller and it has been almost a month since I placed the order. :mad:

Can't wait till they start shipping the new Mac Pro - I hope it is soon!!!
 
Quad SLi 295 said:
wouldn't be holding your breath. It should have been announced at the WWDC, but all the world got was a phone, that as it turns out doesn't function all that well as a phone.

Jordan
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Ha! There IS a God, and as it turns out, he's NOT Steve Willie Wonka Jobs after all.

:apple:
 
MisterK said:
4yr old MBP at home (and newer mac mini). Unfortunately another PC at work... again. Vista really is horrible. I had to restart twice, today. One time it took me 22 minutes. Then my typing kicked into french keyboard on its own.
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Took you 22 minutes to restart Vista? That's some serious PEBKAC right there.
 
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