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Next Mobile Intel Processors and Platform (Montevina) Due in June 2008

Mister9 said:
Yes?? haha- what the hell? I'm not sure where your question is going? Are you saying that somehow the SR platform doesn't use CPU's? Rephrase your question please- or go to the "Waiting for New Macbook Pro" forum... you'd fit right in.
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Sure it does, Merom and Penryn. I was just trying to understand how the Santa Rosa Platform is obsolete?

As far as Montevina using the successor to the existing Penryn, sure it will. The current Penryn CPU's can probably run at the 1066 fsb quite easily. More over I am pretty sure the existing chips can run at 1600 fsb on air with no overvolting.

And for the umpteenth time Apple doesn't use Intel's platforms. They are missing the wireless, robson cache, and lan. Apple is currently using the Crestline chipset (northbridge and southbridge) and the Penryn CPU's.
 
Mister9 said:
Yes?? haha- what the hell? I'm not sure where your question is going? Are you saying that somehow the SR platform doesn't use CPU's? Well I just read a few of your posts and you obviously know what you're talking about- this penryn processor is backwards compatible with SR to accept the 800 MHz FBS. This CPU was used to get buyers to buy now due to the overstock of SR platforms which will soon be obsolete. Remember how Intel announced there would be a limited supply? This wasn't because of production woes, this was a strategic plan based on current SR inventories to get suckers to think "Oh I'd better get one now." The next Penryn will accept the full 1066 that the Montevina platform and Cantiga chipset will offer. That's all I am saying.
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If you really look at the big picture it wouldnt matter if you bought today's penryn or montevina since they all will use the same ram, unless montevina changes to a 1066mhz ram which I doubt.

Lol, from your sig I see that your waiting for the Nehalem. How long have you been waiting to buy a mbp? I think its silly for people to wait 6-12 months to buy a laptop because all the time you wait for that spec to show up, you could be enjoying the laptop right now and once its released then something much better will show up the next 6-12 so to me its a year wasted of waiting.

But I too am a spec whore and do wait until the next update if I'm in the market for a new laptop and around 3 months for the update to arrive.

I bought my SR 2.4ghz mbp just about 5 months ago and was surprised to see the penryn update. But to me it wasnt too big a jump to upgrade, the only thing I want is the new multitouch thats about it.
 
jjahshik32 said:
If you really look at the big picture it wouldnt matter if you bought today's penryn or montevina since they all will use the same ram, unless montevina changes to a 1066mhz ram which I doubt.
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Cantiga, which is what Apple would use, is specced to support up to 1066 DDR3 RAM. I hope they do cause Nehalem, is dropping DDR2 support.
 
jjahshik32 said:
I bought my SR 2.4ghz mbp just about 5 months ago and was surprised to see the penryn update. But to me it wasnt too big a jump to upgrade, the only thing I want is the new multitouch thats about it.
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Going from MBP 2007 to MBP (early 2008) is actually a downgrade; at least according to the performance tests.

newmbp-benchmarks.jpg
 
Mister9 said:
Going from MBP 2007 to MBP (early 2008) is actually a downgrade; at least according to the performance tests.
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If I understand correctly, the newer 2.4 model has less L2 cache than the older 2.4. And I think the earlier models cost a lot more for comparable speeds.
 
Mister9 said:
hey diamond, do you suspect montevina will have soldered processors?
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I'd hope not. Does Apple normally solder the CPU's to the mobo's? Although it won't make too much of a difference. Nehalem will be on a different package, so CPU upgradability of Cantiga is probably a moot point.

After doing some snooping, it may be possible for Cantiga to support Nehalem. Or should I say a variant of Cantiga could support Nehalem. Of course The real question is will Intel go that route, or will they wait till Q2 to actually update the mobile line.
 
diamond.g said:
I'd hope not. Does Apple normally solder the CPU's to the mobo's? Although it won't make too much of a difference. Nehalem will be on a different package, so CPU upgradability of Cantiga is probably a moot point.

After doing some snooping, it may be possible for Cantiga to support Nehalem. Or should I say a variant of Cantiga could support Nehalem. Of course The real question is will Intel go that route, or will they wait till Q2 to actually update the mobile line.
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The MBP has a soldered CPU...at least mine does. It'd be nice, that way I won't have to wait as long :p

Okay, I've been doing some digging... and I'm more confused than when I started, but I guess the chip known as 'Nehalem' is going to be significantly larger and will be released in 4th Q of 2008, but hardware for it will be early 2009... so we're looking at a year from now-ish. http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5741&Itemid=35
 
Mister9 said:
The MBP has a soldered CPU...at least mine does. It'd be nice, that way I won't have to wait as long :p

Okay, I've been doing some digging... and I'm more confused than when I started, but I guess the chip known as 'Nehalem' is going to be significantly larger and will be released in 4th Q of 2008, but hardware for it will be early 2009... so we're looking at a year from now-ish. http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5741&Itemid=35
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Yeah the package is LGA11(something). Although the die is supposed to be smaller than the current one.
 
Everything I see says the 'Nehalem' to be released at the end of this year will be for the desktop; for laptops it will be sometime around now next year; then we'll be in the same boat trying to decide whether to get the Montevina version or wait until summer 2009. I'm thinking I will go through with this Montevina update because the Nehalem will be completely 'new' for Intel and with 'new' comes flaws and revisions just like Pentium, Pentium II, Pentium III, etc... So, for me (at least now), I'll get the MBP (mid-2008) and then perhaps the Nehalem II or Sandybridge -or whatever kids these days are calling it- in 2011. Wow, talk about planning ahead...
 
Mister9 said:
Everything I see says the 'Nehalem' to be released at the end of this year will be for the desktop; for laptops it will be sometime around now next year; then we'll be in the same boat trying to decide whether to get the Montevina version or wait until summer 2009. I'm thinking I will go through with this Montevina update because the Nehalem will be completely 'new' for Intel and with 'new' comes flaws and revisions just like Pentium, Pentium II, Pentium III, etc... So, for me (at least now), I'll get the MBP (mid-2008) and then perhaps the Nehalem II or Sandybridge -or whatever kids these days are calling it- in 2011. Wow, talk about planning ahead...
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All CPU's have some errata. It is just some errata is worse than others. Upgrade to Cantiga (cause Apple doesn't use Intel platform) and by the same time next year you can make the move to Nehalem. Hopefully Apple will use DDR3 with Cantiga and not punk out and use DDR2.
 
diamond.g said:
All CPU's have some errata. It is just some errata is worse than others. Upgrade to Cantiga (cause Apple doesn't use Intel platform) and by the same time next year you can make the move to Nehalem. Hopefully Apple will use DDR3 with Cantiga and not punk out and use DDR2.
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You keep saying that? What do you mean by 'platform'?? If you mean Santa Rosa- or even 'Core' or 'Montevina' you're confused; these are all very much Intel technologies. As is Cantiga, which will be refreshed in 1 year- just like everything else intel does- to Calpella, which is the first 'chipset' that will optimize the 'Nehalem' CPU by discarding the Northbridge FSB and fusing the memory controller on the CPU. I really want to wait that long but not sure I'll make it... we'll see.
 
Mister9 said:
You keep saying that? What do you mean by 'platform'?? If you mean Santa Rosa- or even 'Core' or 'Montevina' you're confused; these are all very much Intel technologies. As is Cantiga, which will be refreshed in 1 year- just like everything else intel does- to Calpella, which is the first 'chipset' that will optimize the 'Nehalem' CPU by discarding the Northbridge FSB and fusing the memory controller on the CPU. I really want to wait that long but not sure I'll make it... we'll see.
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Nope not confused. Most Mac people are confused as to what the difference is.

When referencing Intels Platforms you say: Santa Rosa, Montevina, Capella. What that (platform) means is Intel CPU, Intel Chipset (north bridge and south bridge), Intel Wireless, Intel LAN, and (optionally) Intel Robson Cache.
Apple only uses the first 2.

This means that Apple doesn't use Intel Platforms. Apple use components from the platform but not the platform itself. It is like saying the Audi S4 uses the R8 platform, it doesn't; it may share some parts but that is about it.


Now when dealing with chipsets you can then go by things like Calistoga (past), Crestline (current) or Cantiga (future). The CPU's are Merom (past) Penryn (current), or Nehalem (future). That is what Apple uses. Nothing else Apple uses comes from Intel.
 
Roller said:
Hmmm.... always something better on the way. I'm still going to get a Penryn MBP if one comes out, though.
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Echo. Once I finally came to the realization that something better would come out, I jumped off the deep end, and ordered one of the new Penryn MBP's.

I'm excited to receive it, as it should be here any day.
 
Mister9 said:
Going from MBP 2007 to MBP (early 2008) is actually a downgrade; at least according to the performance tests.

newmbp-benchmarks.jpg
Click to expand...

diamond.g said:
That isn't the new 2.6 chip, it is the old one.
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Macworld Magazine said:
While it’s certainly interesting to compare new models to the most recent releases to gauge the progression of Apple’s offerings, most people who bought a new MacBook Pro just last year are probably not looking to upgrade. Rather, it’s owners of even older laptops who have a stake in seeing just how much performance has improved with this latest release.

To provide a point of comparison, we also ran Speedmark tests on a 2GHz MacBook Pro Core Duo, a two-year-old machine that was among the first to ship with an Intel-built processor. The new 15-inch, 2.5GHz MacBook Pro scored around a 50-percent improvement over that older laptop in both Speedmark 5 and our Compressor tests. We also found the newer model to be 36 percent faster than the 2GHz MacBook Pro in both our Photoshop suite and Cinema 4D tests.
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Why would anyone go from last years model to the current one.

And it's not a downgrade even from the last model as per MacWorld's performance tests. (www.macworld.com)

Also:

Macworld Magazine said:
The new entry-level 2.4Ghz model bested the last entry-level system—a 2.2GHz MacBook Pro—by 10 percent in our Speedmark tests. In certain tests, like Photoshop, the improvement was even more dramatic, with the new 2.4GHz model finishing our Photoshop suite 23 percent faster than the older 2.2GHz system.

Even with less L2 cache, the new low-end MacBook Pro was able to compete head-to-head with last falls’s more expensive build-to-order MacBook Pro, posting a Speedmark score just one point less than the older system powered by as 2.6GHz Core 2 Duo chip.

The new 15-inch 2.5GHz MacBook Pro was quite a bit faster across the board than that build-to-order 2.6GHz system—more than 8 percent faster, in fact, in Speedmark, and 23 percent faster in Photoshop. Doubling the video memory also helped the new 2.5GHz MacBook Pro best the older build-to-order machine in our Unreal Tournament test by a whopping 34 percent.
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And: (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3195&p=3)
 
diamond.g said:
That isn't the new 2.6 chip, it is the old one.
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Correct -- but you're missing the point.

It may be the old 2.6 chip, but a 2007 Ferrari is still faster than a 2008 Toyota..right?

The graph isn't valid because it puts a 2.6 chip against a 2.5 chip -- great for comparison purposes, but the person that originally posted it said that the new 2.5 chips were a downgrade. They're not.


The new chips are more efficient - they weren't meant to be faster than the 2.6 chips. That's why they're 2.5. . .
 
Digital Skunk said:
Why would anyone go from last years model to the current one.

And it's not a downgrade even from the last model as per MacWorld's performance tests. (www.macworld.com)

Also:



And: (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3195&p=3)
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The Macworld benchmarks are a bit surprising I think - the tests show that the new 2.4Ghz machine is slower than the old 2.2Ghz with regards to the framerate of the Unreal Tournament game. This is despite the new model having a graphics card that is twice the capacity!

I would have liked Macworld to have included the old 2.4Ghz model in the testing mix too.
 
Dilemma!!!!

Blast this is a hard decision for me:

A. I could get the current MBP in a month by my birthday and have it to use ALL summer! I still love the current design.

B. Wait for the next model. What if I don't like the new design. But maybe it'll be better looking? But I don't really want an air styled design. I like the curved rectangle look of the MBPs and MBs. However, regardless of how amazing the new design may look, what about all the issues there could be. The last thing I want to do is be fixing my computer all the time in college.

I really don't think I personally will notice a performance update with Montevina and I don't think the specs will change much. People keep saying it will be thinner, but here's why I disagree:

1. Mac laptops already have heating issues. Make the thing any smaller and it'll overheat (BAD!).
2. The nvidia 8600M is about the best that can fit and the 8800M is larger and creates more heat. Apple needs to future proof itself. If they get too ahead of themselves and make every thing super thin, there will be no room for extra features. Its better to have more space for extra features, than make an already very thin laptop thinner. Honestly, anyone who thinks 1" is too thick needs to take a shopping trip through the PC isle and compare.
3. if they make it thinner, it may resemble the Air's style (all curvy and such). While the air looks amazing, on a larger laptop, all the weird curves make not look right and may make the computer look too complicated and I associate Apple's design with simple. Simple usually is better. What is it I hate about the look of every PC laptop? All the stuff. Too many designs, to busy, and too clunky. I love that when you close a MB or MBP the whole thing is symetric and smooth. Also I'd rather have a solid laptop than one that resembles a wedge from the side (slopes from 1" to .5" or something)

But its a hard decision. I don't want to buy now then see the new one and wish I'd waited. Yet if the new is nothing special, I'll wish I'd bought already.
 
I don't think the MBP is going to get any more thinner. It would be nice, but I don't Apple can continue to deal with the hardware limitations of such a thin design. Even now Apple can't stuff as much hardware and features in the MBP as comparable PC models.

I did want a new design but the current Penryn MBPs are perfect for my needs.
 
TimeWaister101 said:
But its a hard decision. I don't want to buy now then see the new one and wish I'd waited. Yet if the new is nothing special, I'll wish I'd bought already.
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Mate, I'd just bite the bullet and get the latest model. After a release is always going to be the best time to buy (for both new and old models!)

Before this latest update many people were expecting a new case design, new graphics card, blu-ray etc, which didn't happen. There is nothing to suggest the the next upgrade will be revolutionary rather than evolutionary, and it may not come for another 6-8 months!

Also, apparently the heating issues have been addressed in the current models.
 
macgroovy said:
Mate, I'd just bite the bullet and get the latest model. After a release is always going to be the best time to buy (for both new and old models!)

Before this latest update many people were expecting a new case design, new graphics card, blu-ray etc, which didn't happen. There is nothing to suggest the the next upgrade will be revolutionary rather than evolutionary, and it may not come for another 6-8 months!

Also, apparently the heating issues have been addressed in the current models.
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Thanks so much for you and skunk's input. Still deciding...:(
 
Estimated Ship Times

Can anyone who's already received their new Penryn machines tell me if:

A - The estimated shipping times on apple.com are reliable, and

B - If it says "7-10 Days Ship", does this include shipping time to my door, or time to build the computer before it ships?

I've ordered my MBP, as I said I would. It's taking longer than I thought it would, though.
 
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