Maybe they pulled some sort of low power magic trick so the battery can last all day. Who knows until Friday
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Nexus 5
- Thread starter Explicitic
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How does this prove it's stock android that's the cause of this? Just curious. There a study? A test you can link us to?
My understanding of the battery issues with the nexus 4 were cause of thermal throttling issues?
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Magic would probably do it. Let's hope they used magic this time.
It will be around Halloween...
Here is one of a few new images that allegedly come from Sprint.
http://www.androidauthority.com/sprint-nexus-5-website-press-images-312248/
http://www.androidauthority.com/sprint-nexus-5-website-press-images-312248/
So no? Then maybe you ought to stop implying it's stock android that's causing the battery drains. Especially for an android version that hasn't come out yet.
I thought it had more to do with thermal throttling according to anandtech. Which I thought they fixed.
Calm down captain.
Thermal throttling keeps the CPU and GPU from going to their max speeds. Device gets hot, CPU/GPU slow down to compensate. With a slower CPU/GPU, it would essentially use less power. This really just makes stock Android look even less efficient. So thanks for bringing that up
Optimus G got 8+ hours in Engadget's typical battery rundown test.
Nexus 4 for 5.5-6 hours. 2+ hour difference.
Only differences between the phones? Nexus 4 would slow down the CPU sooner, didn't have a power hungry LTE chip that was running, and ran stock Android.
Take a moment and think about it. Stock Android is a base OS for other people to build on. It makes the most sense to have software optimizations in the final version that is put on each device. So it makes more sense for those optimizations to be done by the manufacturer. Stock Android won't have optimizations for LG or Samsung devices. Touchwiz and LG's skin will have optimizations for their respective devices.
I dont believe the cause is solely because of the skin. I'm sure it has some reasonable effect but I dont believe both models had the same exact hardware.
I also never heard of any QA issues with the OG.
IMO strausd is overblown on this point. Look at gpe vs non gpe gs4 and HTC one battery tests. The results are nowhere near og vs n4 tests.
A majority of the optimizations should be done at the driver level, which is the same stock vs skinned. Though yes I'm sure optimizations are made at the skin level, but likewise for bloat and other inefficiencies.
Me neither. I have no idea whether the battery for the nexus 5 will be good or not. Personally not too worried. It's something else to assume just because the nexus 4 had bad battery the nexus 5 -- with different hardware and software -- will be bad too.
GPE phones offer good insight. But the problem is those still go through some time with their respective manufacturers for potential software tweaks under the hood. They could be putting the same drivers on those phones as ones with their skin. Look back at the HTC One and GS4 GPE devices, they took an additional week to get the 4.3 update.
So then maybe Nexus 4 and Optimus G, although same hardware, have very different drivers. As you say, a majority of optimizations should be done at the driver level. In this case, that would mean LG has better drivers for the hardware than Google.
Is there a steep decline (2+ hours) between gpe and their regular counter parts?
Cause if not how are you so sure it's stock android that's causing all the battery problems between nexus 4(which you could say is a gpe edition of the lg g1 if they're as exactly the same as you say they are) and the g1?
Why isn't it causing the same problems with the gpe phones? You say cause they're optimizing them. Is there proof?
Genuine questions cause it's interesting.
Why wouldn't Google also then optimize their nexus phones?
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There are many variables in picture quality. I'm not worried based only on the number of pixels. Generally, having more MP doesn't mean better quality pictures.
Indeed and it is my understanding that it includes driver implementation. Though yes there are a few elements of touchwiz left but I would wager battery optimization is not on that list. Battery settings are fully stock on my gs4 at least.
Nexus devices have their own specific builds so I would argue they have special optimizations under the hood as well. Just not on the skin level.
The difference between the og and the nexus 4 is certainly interesting. It is possible that the og has closed source drivers that Google was not allowed to include with flashable images. For example stock images for the gs4 Ge are maintained by the community and not released by Samsung due to closed source drivers I believe(only ota's are officially available). So without xda I could never go back to day 1 factory stock on an otherwise totally unlocked Google phone if you can believe it.
I believe the gpe devices are closer to a month behind the nexus for updates but I could be mistaken.
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The problem I am having is we have no idea the same thing won't happen again. Optimus G gets better battery life than Nexus 4. If history is to repeat itself, then the G2 will have much better battery life (excluding the difference in battery capacities. For example, multiple G2 battery life by .76 to get 2300 mAh equivalent).
I think one reason the GPE phones have similar battery life is that they spend a week to a month with their respective manufacturers before the OS is pushed out. That gives them enough time to implement their own drivers for their own hardware onto stock Android for under the hood optimizations.
The difference with Nexus devices is that they spend no time with their hardware manufacturers. That disconnect could be the cause of the battery discrepancy.
LG for the Optimus G and G2 designed the phone, picked out all the parts, wrote the drivers, and did all necessary optimizations. Google is essentially just copying what they do, but they just might not have access to the drivers LG wrote for the phone they designed. So now Google has to write the drivers for a phone compiled of hardware another company designed. Could this be the problem? We don't know. We can only speculate. But I find it quite interesting that when a phone running stock Android goes through the manufacturer before release, it gets similar battery life compared to the skinned version, but when a phone running stock Android doesn't go through the manufacturer, it, in the case of the Optimus G at least, got noticeable worse battery life. That is the reason I am so skeptical of the Nexus 5's battery life. I don't want history to repeat itself.
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There is more to it than just "stock Android". A lot more factors at play.
We can only speculate. But GPE phones go through manufacturers, thus the delay with updates. Nexus devices don't, thus no delay with updates.
Google might optimize their Nexus phones. We don't know. Past Nexus devices have never gotten fantastic battery life. To me, it really seems that Google is mostly worried about creating a base OS for others to build on. Others, being manufacturers, are the ones who optimize for specific hardware, that is part of the job of the skin. With stock Android, it has to be easy to add on to for other hardware. Having specific optimizations for specific hardware in a base OS just doesn't make total sense. And the fact that whenever a phone doesn't touch a manufacturers hand, the battery is worse, surely doesn't help.
Does Google put specific hardware optimizations in a base OS for other manufacturers to then go through the hassle of taking out? Maybe. We don't know. Of course it is totally possible they never have and are going to start with the Nexus 5. We don't know. We probably will never know unless we work at Google. It is one of those things that is hard to definitely prove either way. We can only look at the little facts we have and speculate. But the little facts we have don't look good for making an argument that stock Android is more energy efficient.
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Calm down captain.
Thermal throttling keeps the CPU and GPU from going to their max speeds. Device gets hot, CPU/GPU slow down to compensate. With a slower CPU/GPU, it would essentially use less power. This really just makes stock Android look even less efficient. So thanks for bringing that up
Optimus G got 8+ hours in Engadget's typical battery rundown test.
Nexus 4 for 5.5-6 hours. 2+ hour difference.
Only differences between the phones? Nexus 4 would slow down the CPU sooner, didn't have a power hungry LTE chip that was running, and ran stock Android.
Take a moment and think about it. Stock Android is a base OS for other people to build on. It makes the most sense to have software optimizations in the final version that is put on each device. So it makes more sense for those optimizations to be done by the manufacturer. Stock Android won't have optimizations for LG or Samsung devices. Touchwiz and LG's skin will have optimizations for their respective devices.
I don't get it. Didn't anandtech say that a glitch with thermal throttling was causing the issue not the feature thermal throttling itself which as you say should help battery life.
I don't remember the details which is why I'm asking. You're basically telling me what thermal throttling is supposed to do. I'm asking what was it that ended up being the proof of nexus 4 battery woes. From what I've heard it wasnt the os (or the os alone which you seem to imply incessantly by mentioning the g1 had the same specs).
I've read it was an issue with how thermal throttling worked or didn't work?
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So are you saying then its not so much to do with stock android itself but now more about the drivers?
Thermal throttling is exactly what is sounds like. Device gets hot, performance gets throttled. What happens when performance gets throttled? CPU and GPU slow down. What happens when they slow down? It uses less power.
Above post also updated.
So basically, what I'm getting is that you don't know the reason the Nexus 4 battery is poor. And not only are you not sure, your basis that the Nexus 5 battery will be poor due to it being stock Android is unfounded. The Nexus 5 battery life may very well end up poor. I don't want the same mistakes repeated by Google either. But you're the only one that seems confident it will be and it will be because of stock Android, which you've implied multiple times.
It doesn't explain the GPE editions. And if all it takes is to tweak the drivers to get better battery life, it's perplexing why Google wouldn't ask LG to tweak the drivers for the Nexus device.
I agree that there is cause for concern with the nexus 5 beyond the smaller battery. I think I just disagree with the semantics on why. I don't know what to blame, but it's hard for me to blame stock android itself as the majority factor.
I imagine the drivers for the individual phone parts are written by their respective manufacturer. I don't believe LG sources any of the parts that would require a driver. I know there was a tiff about google releasing images that contained GPU drivers from the Snapdragon SOC in the 2013 Nexus 7. The head of AOSP at Google left his position in protest, citing that without drivers open source products are useless. I would hope that Google has access to these same drivers sourced from the original manufacturer, but it is possible that they are forced into some generic 'releasable' driver but I hope that is not the case.
I still want to believe there are other factors at play in the OG vs N4 case, software aside.
If the camera is as good as my GS3 then ill be fine with it. If it stinks and the battery isnt that great then ill go with the G2.
Im ready for a new phone so this anouncement is holding me up,lol.
If anything, isn't it constantly said that battery life is better in devices that run pure Android, or less skins? I'm no expert, but it just doesn't add up that it's solely or even mostly due to stock Android causing battery issues, which seems to be the tune Straus is constantly singing.
When I was reading up on GPE battery tests were largely even on both the One and the GS4, trading places on certain tests. I've seen cases where rooted, debloated TW GS4's appear to have better battery life, but IMO the difference is moreso in performance with stock, rather than any gain in battery life. I wouldnt be surprised if there actually is some good battery management code in the skin, but 2+ hours worth, no way! (unless you are in some power save mode that disables everything)
It would be very interesting if we could get a GE of the real G2 to see if LG is really that good with battery software(obv. we wont). I certainly have battery envy on the G2, even though I can swap.
I'm wondering if the call for the enthusiast may be the G2 with Cyanogenmod (which appears to also get stellar battery life without LG's skin (which is also interesting evidence for strausd) - though I am sure there are issues because it is so new), we shall see - it already is the go to on Verizon. Depends on what the user values I guess.
I've all but decided I'm staying put for now on GS4GE FWIW. I don't blame anyone for sticking with the one either.
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