You've asked? Speaking of lack of trying. Well go organize them. .
I believe the point of not being organized is so there is no head to cut off.
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Nightline's Look into Apple's Foxconn Factories
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You've asked? Speaking of lack of trying. Well go organize them. .
I believe the point of not being organized is so there is no head to cut off.
You didn't answer the question I put forward and articulated in fairly good detail.
Tell me again which one of us is not trying? It's not my goal to organize them. I can engage in consumer boycotts all by myself... and I do.
How hard a concept is it to grasp that if you want to hurt a corporation, you hit them in the pocketbook by NOT BUYING THEIR PRODUCTS.
Putting it on ME to organize OWS is just a way of saying "Hey, I want corporations to change but I want someone else to make them change for me."
Are you kidding me? All this tells me is you're not willing to put your money where your mouth is... and there's no reason any corporation would change their behavior if all you do is sit around posting about how other people should do all the work for you. That's hypocrisy.
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It is more about pointing out hypocrisy. If you are not cool with how a company does business or how they produce their products, etc, then why would anyone use them? It would be like having a friend who is racist or anti-Semitic and still remaining friends with them after their HUGE shortcomings in life are exposed. You would want NOTHING to do with them, nor would you leave a picture of them hanging in your home.
In closing, macmagician is a gift to us all, we all have been imbued with his wisdom.
In closing, macmagician is a gift to us all, we all have been imbued with his wisdom.
LOL so you trying is posting on the internet. Well good job. Hence the problem.
You complain that there not organized that's why you can't get behind them. Have you tried to organize them? I guess your not that concerned.
No, me trying is... I don't like Chik-Fil-A's contributions to Focus on the Family? I DON'T BUY THEIR PRODUCTS.
All you're doing is tap dancing and asking me to do for you what you're not willing to do for yourself. That not only makes you ineffective but it makes you a hypocrite.
You're the one championing OWS's "cause" and yet are completely unable to articulate it and how they plan to go about it. Got it. No further explanation needed. You aren't willing to put your money where your mouth is. You want me to do it for you.
Sounds like someones feelings got hurt earlier. It isn't easy to see how a company produces a product and what they hide when they do it. Did you not see the front page. I am glad I could impart wisdom on you. Seems like your lacking. Your welcome.
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If by championing there cause you mean bringing them up, sure. Mr. Deep pockets doesn't understand OWC big suprise there.
Apparently business or analogies are not your forte. Why would I accept a $20 job if I have to pay an employee more than that? That makes no sense and your "iLawn" goes uncut (i.e. iPhones not made). If I can't make money and pay the worker somewhere in the bell curve of acceptable wages for the area and economy in which the wages are paid, I don't do the job. Nobody is holding my feet to the fire. If the wages are not acceptable, the labor goes elsewhere. Supply and demand works on both sides of the equation.
If you have read the other posts, you already know that the wages paid at Foxconn are quite acceptable in the Chinese workplace.
And you could not in umpteen tap dancing posts articulate any aspect of their mission... Even that I had to do for you, and all it took me was about 15 seconds searching Google.
We get it. You don't have the capacity to actually answer the question.
I know everything OWS wants, but it's up to them to articulate how they're going to get it. If you can't answer that question then ok, we get it, you don't know either...
But I'm not so foolish as to follow a movement that can't even attempt to spell out what they're willing to give up. I'm a skeptic. I'll leave the religious zealotry to you.
Honestly, I found the whole episode rather boring and anticlimactic. Given the hype that this story has been given, one would expect to find some hint of a situation that would be comparable to what Jacob Riis uncovered in late 19th century America.
From a structural perspective, I think things in Foxconn are sound. Are there going to be incidents? The size of the company and the scope of its production necessarily ensures incidents will happen. Could there be improvements? Certainly. There is no perfect company.
I think almost everyone would rather be assembling iPads than working in a garment factory.
I think the New York Times found a story that could earn them a Pulitzer.
I think those who are outraged by the story fall into any number of categories including: misguided idealists; those who lack an understanding of labor history or globalization; and those who are merely anti-Apple partisans.
For the record, this is a defense of Foxconn and not Apple. This is entirely a Chinese issue.
Edit: Building on the fact that this is a Chinese issue, I fail to see the utility of pursuing Foxconn stories short of simple interest and rubbernecking. No amount of reporting in the United States is going to result in major change in Chinese labor policies. The fact that there is little real outrage should have little effect on whether or not consumers will continue purchasing consumer electronic devices.
From a structural perspective, I think things in Foxconn are sound. Are there going to be incidents? The size of the company and the scope of its production necessarily ensures incidents will happen. Could there be improvements? Certainly. There is no perfect company.
I think almost everyone would rather be assembling iPads than working in a garment factory.
I think the New York Times found a story that could earn them a Pulitzer.
I think those who are outraged by the story fall into any number of categories including: misguided idealists; those who lack an understanding of labor history or globalization; and those who are merely anti-Apple partisans.
For the record, this is a defense of Foxconn and not Apple. This is entirely a Chinese issue.
Edit: Building on the fact that this is a Chinese issue, I fail to see the utility of pursuing Foxconn stories short of simple interest and rubbernecking. No amount of reporting in the United States is going to result in major change in Chinese labor policies. The fact that there is little real outrage should have little effect on whether or not consumers will continue purchasing consumer electronic devices.
Religious Zealot? Sigh, ya think with those deep pockets ya could buy a dictionary.
No, I'm referring to Deng Xiaoping's Socialist Market Economy. It's a market economy, but it's by no means open. It's not the planned economy of the former Soviet Union, but the Chinese gov't still controls the macroeconomy. The Communist Party of China is still the state.
macmagician
Naww, no hurt feelings here. All of us here are just in awe of how clearly you have articulated each an every point that have been asked in the above threads.
You are just a gift that the rest of us can aspire to.
Naww, no hurt feelings here. All of us here are just in awe of how clearly you have articulated each an every point that have been asked in the above threads.
You are just a gift that the rest of us can aspire to.
Handmade?
I could not bring this up using the quote button but the original post quotes another website as follows: "- It takes 141 steps to make an iPhone, and the devices are essentially all handmade"
Also during the show the reporter held up a chip which he identified as "the camera module" and stated that "with two shifts they can make 300,000 of these in a single day". It is uncertain to me if that module was actually made by Foxconn or elsewhere, but it was certainly not made entirely by hand. There was no evidence in the show of any type of work other than assembly being done at that plant.
It may not be central to the discussion but I think the report confuses assembly and production. From what I saw looked like assembly done essentially by hand at Foxconn with components made at other locations.
I could not bring this up using the quote button but the original post quotes another website as follows: "- It takes 141 steps to make an iPhone, and the devices are essentially all handmade"
Also during the show the reporter held up a chip which he identified as "the camera module" and stated that "with two shifts they can make 300,000 of these in a single day". It is uncertain to me if that module was actually made by Foxconn or elsewhere, but it was certainly not made entirely by hand. There was no evidence in the show of any type of work other than assembly being done at that plant.
It may not be central to the discussion but I think the report confuses assembly and production. From what I saw looked like assembly done essentially by hand at Foxconn with components made at other locations.
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You mean you don't believe that you are a gift that the rest of us can aspire to?
WTF
Calling Deng's policies "planned economy" then is rather disingenuous. Indeed, all that differs between their mixed-economy and ours in the West is a question of degree (show me a successful economic model that exerts zero control over macro-economic factors). Again, refer to my prior "mercantilist" comment.
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Foxconn executive
What the report does not mention is that Foxconn is a Taiwanese company with operations in China, India, Brazil, Mexico, Maylasia, and Slovakia. Foxconn may still have plants in Taiwan but seems to be primarily a company that seeks out cheap labor in other countries. I don't want to argue over whether Taiwan is a breakaway province or a nation, but there can be no doubt that it has a different economy from mainland China. Could it be that ABC feared the wrath of their Chinese hosts if they made a distinction between China and Taiwan?
My guess is that the executive interviewed is Taiwanese, or a local Chinese hired to put up a PR front for his Taiwanese employers. A sharper reporter might have asked him why the factory is not in Taiwan. Failing to identify his position in the company certainly was sloppy journalism by ABC.
What the report does not mention is that Foxconn is a Taiwanese company with operations in China, India, Brazil, Mexico, Maylasia, and Slovakia. Foxconn may still have plants in Taiwan but seems to be primarily a company that seeks out cheap labor in other countries. I don't want to argue over whether Taiwan is a breakaway province or a nation, but there can be no doubt that it has a different economy from mainland China. Could it be that ABC feared the wrath of their Chinese hosts if they made a distinction between China and Taiwan?
My guess is that the executive interviewed is Taiwanese, or a local Chinese hired to put up a PR front for his Taiwanese employers. A sharper reporter might have asked him why the factory is not in Taiwan. Failing to identify his position in the company certainly was sloppy journalism by ABC.
Nor are you certain that you ever reach retirement... My parents didn't... F u c k i n g cancer... (using spaces to avoid censoring 'cause cancer warrants it)
So I try to make sure that I live in the moment whenever possible.
What sort of life is this? The conditions are good, that's obvious, but working 12 hour days almost every day? Living in purpose built towns? I'd sooner rather die.
I like your point of view, it's gutsy, most people would rather "revolt" for show and to feel self important with little consideration for real change or for what they are willing to give up to effect it. That's why the world is in a sorry state in so many respects.
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Most of the workers in these factories are poorly educated. There's little they can do due to both their abilities and Chinese policies.
aurichie said:
Most of the workers in these factories are poorly educated. There's little they can do due to both their abilities and Chinese policies.
This is even better than in Croatia.
Workers with such qualifications usually get aroung $500 a month, months are usually 160-200 working hours. Let's say 180. That's $2.77 an hour. But then, a meal doesn't cost $0.70 but $4-5, and you can't get a month's full accomodations for $17.50. Sure, there aren't such large sized rooms to let on such a basis, but you can get a room for around $125 a month. Compared to people who work like that, these have it pretty good from the financial side. And they are doing the same monotonous job like feeding a machine with material, sawing something, sorting products into boxes, picking bad tobbaco leaves from the conveyer belt, or sorting through vegetables. All day long, just like these workers.