Nightline's Look into Apple's Foxconn Factories

[linuxcooldude]

but these things have to be solved from within, and if everyone stopped doing business with China; if the world stopped buying their export, then they'd be royally screwed.

+1 billion...lol

I've mentioned that in another thread. Ultimately change must come from within the country. Trying to change the political, cultural, ethical standing is hard enough, especially in a Communist country.

And we see this very thing recently with Islamic countries revolting against its own government. It should not have to come from a foreign company having to deal with politics.

Apple is a business, not a government.

 

[macmagician]

Yes, but I realize those workers are not being exploited, but in fact are being helped. You would presumably like to shut it down and relocate, wouldn't you?

I don't want them to shut down, only do right by the people dying to make the products they sell.

 

[rcappo]

They should hire three shifts to work 8 hours. They would probably be even more productive.

Raising the salaries and working conditions at one plant might be all that China needs to 'think different' and have other factory workers demand that changes happen there too.

The question is, how long would these workers (that make all of the products that Apple needs to sell) need to work in order to buy just one share of Apple stock? And how many shares did the board get for sticking around for a few more years?

Just because we can't use slave and indentured servitude labor here in the US, doesn't mean that we can do it literally or figuratively anywhere else in the world.

 

[tbrinkma]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/22/restaurant-workers-darden_n_1292310.html

Bet you didn't know that minimum wage for restaurant workers can be as low as $2.13 pre-tip versus the federal minimum wage of $7.25. I didn't until I had read the article.

I doubt there are many here that would want to see the prices of their dinners rise a couple of bucks so that the staff earns a living wage, but shouldn't they get the same attention that has been recently focused on the workers at Foxconn?

Personally, I'd love to drop the 'mandatory tip so the waitstaff can make a livable wage' standard we have in the US, and just factor that amount into the dang price listed on the menu. If someone does a great job for me, they'll get something extra from me. You don't have to severely underpay them for it to happen.

 

[macmagician]

They should hire three shifts to work 8 hours. They would probably be even more productive.

Raising the salaries and working conditions at one plant might be all that China needs to 'think different' and have other factory workers demand that changes happen there too.

The question is, how long would these workers (that make all of the products that Apple needs to sell) need to work in order to buy just one share of Apple stock? And how many shares did the board get for sticking around for a few more years?

Just because we can't use slave and indentured servitude labor here in the US, doesn't mean that we can do it literally or figuratively anywhere else in the world.

Ty, thought i was crazy for a second

 

[MacBookProzak]

For a company who made 6 billion dollar profit in one quarter of 2011, defending them paying someone 1.75/hr is insane. I have worked with macs and on them for many years. Hence the name macmagician. This doesn't mean I can't be critical of them.

OK, fair enough. So will this new found stance on not buying anymore Apple products also extend to refusing to even working on Macs?

This is getting confusing though, when we see all the Occupy Wall Street people, the ones who represent the 99% using Apple made products, we all just figured that Apple would get a "pass" on all these issues of treatment. Has something changed, or is the media not reporting the change?

 

[saturn88]

"So, just working 1 day covers their rent. And around 6 day's work covers both their rent and all their food for a month." That's not too shabby. If I made enough to cover my rent in a day, I'd be making more than $600k per month. Of course that's not the best comparison but it shows that they have the capability to really save, something which most Americans can't seem to do, or want to do.

Apples and oranges. 1 day does not cover rent in a 2 bedroom/2 bath apartment but in a 8-person dorm with bunk beds and common bathroom. I read an article that one man in NYC rented from a roommate just a niche above the door with a mattress for $200. Sure, this can be covered with 1-day NY salary.

Also a 12-hour work day 6 days a week is terrible even with 2 meal brakes. No time for web browsing and message board posts BTW a 12-hour work day became illegal in Soviet Russia back in 1918, so I am not sure why the communist China does not protect proletarians.

 

[linuxcooldude]

Just because we can't use slave and indentured servitude labor here in the US, doesn't mean that we can do it literally or figuratively anywhere else in the world.

Real slaves don't get paid. They only get one set of clothing per year. They do get food, obviously they can't work without it.

Aw, come on, slave is a bit too far fetched.

 

[ciTiger]

For non US residents who want to watch the video without proxies/vpn:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqL2nS6GljY

Best regards

 

[LethalWolfe]

That $65 number is so flawed. I see everyone throwing that misleading number around and it makes me mad. I would love to see production here in the U.S. but the initial cost to do this would make it very cost prohibitive.

It's not 'so flawed' because, for the third time,it only reflects the increase in labor costs if you paid American wages.. That number does not reflect what it would cost to build the facilities, find enough qualified engineers, etc.,. All of that is clearly and abundantly addressed in the article.

The point is that it's not the American hourly wage that is the big problem but our lack of manufacturing infrastructure and lack of workers skilled/educated in the proper fields to deliver on the scale companies like Apple require. Logistics, not wage, is America's Achilles heel in this situation.


Lethal

 

[haraujo]

Brazil is the new China.

Apple is slightly improving conditions in China at the same time it's turning its assembly lines to Brazil. Main media here (Globo organizations) is not reporting that and so far, no international attention was given.

Brazilian National Minimum Wage is 622 BRL (363 USD) as of today. Normal work shift around here is 220 hrs/month which means $1.65 per hour. Due to all the legal obligations (paid sick leave, 30 days paid vacation per year, transportation, state pension, etc.) every worker costs its employer twice that figure if fully employed under law. Alternative to that is to sign temp contracts and keep renewing them ad eternum. With that, employers don't have to ensure all legal conditions and costs tend to fall.

Foxconn already has one plant in the city of Jundiai (located in the state of Sao Paulo) assembling iPhones and it's already been reported that 5 more plants are on their way.

Acording to IstoE Dinheiro (This Is Money - loosely translated), a fairly respected brazilian economics magazine, lack of respect for brazilian working regulations and excess of "contracts" were common complaints while interviewing Foxconn's employees and strikes have already took place on the brazilian operation. Wages were reported as 1080 BRL (630 USD/mo - 2.86 USD/hour).

Maybe it's time for international media to start covering what's going on around here too.

So they make $427.80/mo. Rent is cheap and so is food. They can save a lot of money and hopefully send some home to their families. In China I'm sure that is well above the national average and there are millions of people who are far worse off. They work in a clean, high-tech and safe environment. It's a hard but honest living.

If you brought those jobs to the US where workers would want $12/hr you would start seeing the price of your (Apple) electronics go through the roof.

 

[tbrinkma]

Apples and oranges. 1 day does not cover rent in a 2 bedroom/2 bath apartment but in a 8-person dorm with bunk beds and common bathroom. I read an article that one man in NYC rented from a roommate just a niche above the door with a matras for $200. Sure, this can be covered with 1-day NY salary.

Apples and oranges. You're suggesting that because a 2-bedroom/2-bath apartment is much nicer than a 4-8 person dorm room that being able to rent a closet with a mattress in it must be equivalent or better than the dorm situation.

The wages the Foxconn employees earn is more than sufficient to rent an outside apartment, though it'll cost them more than 1 day worth of wages.

My first 'real job' paid a whopping $6.50/hour, or $260/week *before taxes*. Out of that, I paid $150/mo. rent, and bought my own food. I was lucky that I still lived close enough to home that my parents could keep me as an 'alternate driver' on the insurance for my car, because the $1250/6mo I would have had to pay as a sole driver would have completely eaten up every last dime of the money I was saving for college. (It wasn't a fancy car either, just a really expensive state for car insurance.)

In the end, their *total* living expenses seem to be about what I was paying for rent, and my rent was *dirt cheap* for the area.

 

[macmagician]

OK, fair enough. So will this new found stance on not buying anymore Apple products also extend to refusing to even working on Macs?

This is getting confusing though, when we see all the Occupy Wall Street people, the ones who represent the 99% using Apple made products, we all just figured that Apple would get a "pass" on all these issues of treatment. Has something changed, or is the media not reporting the change?

I only do computer work now for friends and family so don't need to refuse work. Will I stop helping my friends and family with there computer problems windows or mac, nope. OWS started long before the whispers of Foxconn. No company gets a pass. Its called accountability

 

[pdjudd]

The point is that it's not the American hourly wage that is the big problem but our lack of manufacturing infrastructure and lack of workers skilled/educated in the proper fields to deliver on the scale companies like Apple require. Logistics, not wage, is America's Achilles heel in

That's a point that most commentators here and elsewhere never really talk about - the cost of manufacturing period. Something that none else can really accommodate. Apple has huge demands placed on them for their devices that they sell - it would be crazy for Apple to basically cede that demand to other companies (who will still use China) to accommodate the realities of local development.

 

[farmboy]

For a company who made 6 billion dollar profit in one quarter of 2011, defending them paying someone 1.75/hr is insane. I have worked with macs and on them for many years. Hence the name macmagician. This doesn't mean I can't be critical of them.

Apple is not paying them; Foxconn is. Surely you've managed to grasp this. When you buy a newspaper do you pay the staff at the paper, or the logger that cut down the tree?

 

[iRockSteady]

Well, as high minded as that sentiment is, it's not true. All those U.S. Apple retail stores employ U.S. workers. They receive shipments that are brought to them by drivers for FedEx and UPS after their trucks are packed by station packers after they receive them once offloaded by workers at U.S. airports. The chain goes on and on down the line. Multiply for all the other stores that sell Apple products.

Now take a $499 Apple iPad and bump it up 20% as you are willing to pay. It's now $599 for a low end iPad. A simple supply and demand chart suggests Apple would likely not sell nearly as many at $599 as $499, and same goes up and down Apple's product line. That means Apple wouldn't be able to support as many retails stores -- fewer employees needed, fewer drivers needed to fewer locations and down the line. So when you look at money flow to the economy, don't just look at one single bullet point. The U.S. (and Apple) economy is much more dynamic and complex than that.

A few good points indeed

 

[linuxcooldude]

Apple is not paying them; Foxconn is. Surely you've managed to grasp this. When you buy a newspaper do you pay the staff at the paper, or the logger that cut down the tree?

Thats the same thing Diane Sawyer told Bill Wier. "Didn't Apple raise their salary?

Even she can't get it right.

 

[macmagician]

Apple is not paying them; Foxconn is. Surely you've managed to grasp this. When you buy a newspaper do you pay the staff at the paper, or the logger that cut down the tree?

Yes but Apple pays Foxconn, can Foxconn pay them high wages if Apple does't cover it?

 

[linuxcooldude]

Yes but Apple pays Foxconn, can Foxconn pay them high wages if Apple does't cover it?

Its not up to Apple to cover it. Even if they gave Foxconn more money does not ensure it will go to the right people.

 

[MacBookProzak]

OWS started long before the whispers of Foxconn. No company gets a pass. Its called accountability

Certainly the OWS folks were smart enough to know that the Apple products they were using were the result of the treatment of the workers at Foxconn, yet they continued to use these products made by a company that oppressed the 99% to report and document the OWS movement.

Can you see how we are confused by all of this.

Wonder if Amnesty International has any of these tools of oppression at their offices?

 

[ggrossi]

For non US residents who want to watch the video without proxies/vpn:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqL2nS6GljY

Best regards

I Love you

 

[notjustjay]

Yes but Apple pays Foxconn, can Foxconn pay them high wages if Apple does't cover it?

Probably not, but why should they?

Let me ask you this, what do YOU think is a fair wage for a Chinese factory worker? Please answer in Chinese currency (in yuan), not US dollars, and please justify your answer with more than "Well, Apple makes billions, so they could afford to" or "in the USA, it would be ridiculous to get paid that much".

 

[pdjudd]

Also they should point out how they can avoid major income disparities with other workers in other non apple sectors. Raising wages can have the nasty effect of raising prices all around.

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

It's not 'so flawed' because, for the third time,it only reflects the increase in labor costs if you paid American wages.. That number does not reflect what it would cost to build the facilities, find enough qualified engineers, etc.,. All of that is clearly and abundantly addressed in the article.

The point is that it's not the American hourly wage that is the big problem but our lack of manufacturing infrastructure and lack of workers skilled/educated in the proper fields to deliver on the scale companies like Apple require. Logistics, not wage, is America's Achilles heel in this situation.


Lethal

Your missing the point man. We had the infrastructure! and skilled workers! That's how the nation was built! What happened to it?

 

[farmboy]

They should hire three shifts to work 8 hours. They would probably be even more productive.

Raising the salaries and working conditions at one plant might be all that China needs to 'think different' and have other factory workers demand that changes happen there too.

The question is, how long would these workers (that make all of the products that Apple needs to sell) need to work in order to buy just one share of Apple stock? And how many shares did the board get for sticking around for a few more years?

Just because we can't use slave and indentured servitude labor here in the US, doesn't mean that we can do it literally or figuratively anywhere else in the world.

Three shifts is probably the only valid idea in your post.

The salaries (and the working conditions) are already better than most of the factories in China; so far it has not had the effect of a labor uprising, or a government realization that labor laws are needed. Different culture, expectations, standards and economy.

The question is: how is buying a share of Apple stock relevant to any discussion about anything? Completely arbitrary. Berkshire HAthaway stock is $118,000 a share--so what?

Equating Foxconn with slavery or indentured servitude is hyperbole that diminishes those who have suffered under such conditions, like diamond mine workers.

In a few weeks we will see what the audits reveal. My guess is conditions will be better than initially reported by hit-and-run media, and not as good as some Apple fans expected.