Good job at regurgitating what other people have said, but not understanding even a little bit how business in the real world functions.
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Nintendo Unveils New Web-Based Service for Smartphones
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Good job at regurgitating what other people have said, but not understanding even a little bit how business in the real world functions.
Huh?
So this is basically just a glorified Nintendo video browser service app??? Not sure I see the point?
This service already exists. It's called YouTube.
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Not sure what's it all about? It's simple economics, bud.
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Agreed. However, once our generation gets older, I don't think the young kids will be interested in playing the original Zelda, Mario, Tyson's Punch Out, etc. Nintendo's window of opportunity to make a splash is closing with mobile and the 80s generation of consumers.
So this is basically just a glorified Nintendo video browser service app??? Not sure I see the point?
This service already exists. It's called YouTube.
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Not sure what's it all about? It's simple economics, bud.
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Agreed. However, once our generation gets older, I don't think the young kids will be interested in playing the original Zelda, Mario, Tyson's Punch Out, etc. Nintendo's window of opportunity to make a splash is closing with mobile and the 80s generation of consumers.
That's kind of the issue though. Sales of current games and hardware are in the toilet. Does Nintendo have the cash reserves to survive for a good long while? Yes. Will it, having destroyed its brand credibility through poor-quality IP, absurd hardware and little or no third-party support, be able to regain lost marketshare in a poor macroeconomic climate? That's another issue entirely.
It seems that the Nintendo games that people want to play are the games from older systems, and in that they do have the option of not buying hardware. In fact, the rather dickish support for the Virtual Console on the Wii U means that they're better off with third-party emulators and ROMs, which are realistically, if not legally, free. The question is whether Nintendo wants any of that money. There is obviously a market.
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True. And, people are quick to forget what recently happened to RIM due to their un-budging business model and stubborness to react to changing market demands. They thought they had the smartphone market corned with Blackberry well look how that ended up. (BTW, RIM like Nintendo had billions in the bank.) Billions tend to go pretty fast when your business model becomes outdated and your consumer pool dries up.
People that follow the market are too short sighted nowadays. One generation of console failure shouldn't mean Nintendo should pack it up and jump ship. People have more interest in older games? That's complete crud. Mario Kart Wii sold boatloads. Pokemon X and Y have combined for 12 million sales at a price of ~$35. It is the fastest selling Pokemon game to date. Nintendo selling games on iOS wouldn't touch the revenue and profit they made on Pokemon alone.
Nintendo is better off riding out this generation while figuring out a way to bounce back. No matter what you'd like to believe jumping ship to Android or iOS is a poor long term plan. They will never make as much money as they did and do selling their own hardware with their own software on their own terms. They are struggling now, but last year (or was it 2012? regardless that is impressive for such an old company) was the first time Nintendo ever posted a loss. Why should that mean they need to pack it up and go to an extreme of completely changing their business model? Sounds like they have a solid business plan but need to make some adjustments. iOS and Android is not that adjustment.
Nintendo's biggest issue with the WiiU was marketing. Straight up. There were people that didn't even know the console existed a year after it was released but loved it when they got to play NintendoLand. Nintendo really screwed up not marketing the console whatsoever, and if they had even put an ounce of energy into the marketing of the console, their sales would be far, far, far higher right now. Nintendo's first party output has not been at such a high level for years. It's been great to be honest.
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I get what you're saying and understand the point of view.
But you are wrong. Microsoft has plenty of titles on iOS - Office, Age of Empires to name a couple.
Does Sony make any games in-house themselves?
Nintendo's franchise marquee games are Zelda, Mario, Pokemon (is that last one Nintendo's?). Are the NES, SNES, N64, GB, or GBA titles in these series available anywhere for sale right now on the Wii, WiiU, DS, or DS3? Is Nintendo currently selling any of these legacy consoles currently?
If the answer is no to most of these questions, then it is irresponsible to the company's shareholders to not be monetising that vast library of resources and maximising the EPS.
If Nintendo is already monetising these legacy platforms and vast library of titles using their own ecosystem of hardware/software, then fair enough, but if they are not, I as a shareholder would be adamant about them doing so.
The easiest, most cost effective and highest margin way of achieving this would be to leverage to already billions of users of iOS and Android ecosystems and release virtual re-releases of their legacy consoles, and offer their most popular Nintendo game titles as in app purchases.
It even retains the same business model they have always employed, because you buy the virtual console and the games separately, and they are locked in to that virtual console, not free to be copied or reproduced - heck you couldn't even bring the game over to your friend's house to play on their virtual console, your friend would have to buy the game as well!
Plus doing this would almost instantly kill the emulation and illegal ROM scene for Nintendo systems. Almost everyone would rather pay for a legitimate copy to play on their mobile device than screw around with the emulation scene and shady ROM sites.
Wait, you know about the virtual console but don't know that Nintendo releases almost all of their classic Mario and Zelda games on the Wii, WiiU, etc? Yes, Pokemon is theirs, but it makes no sense to release the old ones because of the kind of game it is. They recently released Pokemon X and Y and have sold 12 million copies of the game. They aren't far off from half a billion of revenue on that game alone. Nintendo makes more on that game than most iOS games combined. I don't even know why some on this forum think it is feasible for Nintendo to drop down to iOS. They would make so much less money than they do now. They won't make 100% of the profit like they do now. They won't be able to price the games as high as they do now. They'll make nothing off the hardware that goes along with their games. The quality of their output will suffer as Nintendo will probably have to downsize their development studios.
Also Sony has great first parties. They have made games such as Jak and Daxter, Sly Cooper, Ratchet and Clank, Uncharted, Last of Us, God of War, Twisted Metal, Killzone, Resistance, LittleBigPlanet, etc. They make plenty of games in house.
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Selling their games on iOS will only continue to diminish their brand. They will not play well on a touch screen thus people continuing this "Doom and Gloom" for Nintendo. Sega is brought up a lot as an example to follow, but have you actually played Sonic for iOS? The controls are terrible and the only reason people bought was for nostalgia reasons. Also, their new games are not poor quality. Super Mario World for the WiiU received universal praise as did Zelda, Mario Kart 7, and every other recent Nintendo game.
The Virtual Console is crap. Disregarding the necessity to boot into Wii Mode to even play them, up until the end of last year the account system was still tied to hardware and it still isn't nearly as robust as XBox Live was a generation ago. Add into that that there is no motivation for someone to buy a $300 console to play $5 dollar games on virtual console, when they can do it for free on a computer or a $99 Ouya.
I would very much like to see what the actual profit for those games, less manufacturing, tooling and distribution. I can guarantee it's nowhere near half a billion.
Revenue=/=profit
I don't need to provide proof because the numbers exist. I'd like you to show me how Nintendo will even touch that much money selling it on iOS.
Yeah the Virtual Console is not as good as it should be but at least they are letting you play previous generation games unlike other console manufacturers (Sony, Microsoft)
Thanks, I didn't read every single reply on the 4 pages. I was merely responding to the regurgitated theme that Nintendo is clueless on everything. Yes, my business sense is so poor, give me a break. Your doom and gloom predictions and iOS as the solution are even more short sided. Nintendo games won't work well on touch screens. That would lead to even further brand destruction (e.g. Sega). I've played the emulators, its cool for about 30 minutes then you realize it's much nicer with physical buttons. Have you played Sonic on iOS? It's terrible.
You're right one screw up in the home console market automatically discounts their tremendous success in the previous generation. The Wii sold over 100 million, the DS sold just as much, if not more.
Which is why I said they (meaning Nintendo) need to produce Bluetooth peripherals for their games. Make them look like classic NES, SNES or even red-and-gold Famicom controllers, and capitalize on the nostalgia.
Universal praise from reviewers means nothing in terms of sales or profit. That's what the hardcore segment cannot seem to grasp. I point back to the case of BioShock Infinite. All the praise in the world means nothing if you go out of business chasing blurbs and Metacritic scores.
Yeah, I agree with most of what you are saying here. I am talking about monetising legacy stuff in order to promote their new stuff. It would be a win win. You want to get people excited about Nintendo? Remind them how great the Nintendo experience is by re-releasing legacy hardware in the form of virtual consoles. If you do it right (in app advertising based on the games you play, for example) you win on every conceivable level. They actually make money on what is effectively an advertising and marketing campaign instead of spending it.
There are so many positives it is ridiculous, and the negatives aren't even real, they are speculative negativity on the part of the executives, IMHO.
You said Pokemon sold 12m copies at $35 each, that's $420m, and that is just gross sales, not profit. I just estimated earlier in the thread, realistically, that Nintendo could easily make $1 billion in gross sales by releasing virtual consoles, and the distribution and overhead costs associated with that would be much less than with a physical cartridge product, even taking into account paying Apple's 30% commission.
Produce inexpensive Bluetooth peripherals that no one will buy? I bet I could find tons of posts of people saying Nintendo is dumb for releasing so many peripherals for their consoles, but in the end, that's your solution to the poor controls that touch screens offer for the kind of games Nintendo makes?
Dude, you are right..hardcore gamers do not really understand grasp the idea of profit. Nintendo gamers do, though. While everyone was losing money in the video game industry for the last 10-15 years, Nintendo was making a billion or more in profit almost every single year despite "poor sales" until recently. You don't need to explain the idea of profit and sales not going hand in hand to a Nintendo gamer.
Fair enough, but are we saying Nintendo goes exclusively to iOS and Android while still producing their own consoles? If Nintendo went exclusively to iOS and/or Android $1 billion in gross sales overall wouldn't be close to what Nintendo sells in gross sales currently overall. I actually worry that Nintendo would see a massive drop in sales on their current consoles if they were to release virtual consoles on iOS. I could see it either working really well for them (promoting them) or really poorly. Huge chance and something I think about every now and then.
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Which is my exact point. You said that revenues were half a billion for the two games combined. Revenue does not take into account costs of production, marketing and distribution.
I can't speak for Microsoft, but Sony is releasing their PSOne, PS2 and PSP titles now, at least on Vita, and by all accounts will arrive on PS4 later this year.
True about Sony. That was a oversight on my part, and I was mostly thinking of how PS3 games aren't backwards compatible. All of those PSN (PS3 PSN, not PS1, PS2, PSP classics) and XBLA games people bought last generation have become useless unless you have your old systems hooked up. At least Nintendo provided a way to play those games still even if Wii mode seems cumbersome. That was my point there.
About your point on production costs, etc. A few of that million could have been digital sales which is almost pure profit at that point. I'll admit I don't know how much that is, though, because Nintendo doesn't release those numbers. Food for thought, though. While you say production costs and overhead is an issue that slashes their profit a bit, I'd say sharing your revenue with Apple and pricing your games much lower is a bigger issue. 12 million Pokemon games means at least 12 million 3DS consoles also. The profit off of that should be fairly high also.
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Nintendo should call it quits with hardware and just become a software company. Since the inception of PlayStation they were on a downwards slope, they struck it lucky with the Wii but now everyone has gotten over the motion gimmicks. The Wii U has been a failure so far, and it looks like it will stay that way.
I don't even know what their latest handheld console is, they release so many versions I've lost count. I personally think dedicated portable gaming devices will inevitably die out, it's simply not worth carrying an extra device just for games. Are the games better? Sure! Does it matter? Not really. For children? Perhaps. The long term future of that market is still not clear.
They need to restructure their position and focus on delivering top quality software on multiple platforms. Imagine a Pokemon game on iOS, the amount of revenue they could generate is literally enormous. Add to that a slew of NES/SNES classics, and Mario games etc. They need to get with the times.
I don't even know what their latest handheld console is, they release so many versions I've lost count. I personally think dedicated portable gaming devices will inevitably die out, it's simply not worth carrying an extra device just for games. Are the games better? Sure! Does it matter? Not really. For children? Perhaps. The long term future of that market is still not clear.
They need to restructure their position and focus on delivering top quality software on multiple platforms. Imagine a Pokemon game on iOS, the amount of revenue they could generate is literally enormous. Add to that a slew of NES/SNES classics, and Mario games etc. They need to get with the times.
You don't know anything about the market so your solution is to just kill it. Nice. Just letting you know...the 3DS has sold around ~45 million consoles and Pokemon recently came out as their fastest selling Pokemon game ever..despite the market on the verge of collapse (apparently). The future isn't clear for the market so let's just drop it even though they are making a ton of money from it. Probably more than they could on iOS. Makes sense.
Sorry for the snarkiness, but I really don't appreciate when people try to give their extreme opinion about something when they really don't know anything (admitting it even) about it.
No one will buy these though. Add-on accessories that are required to play games just don't sell. They need to be packaged directly with the unit from the beginning.
Case and Point: Sega CD, Sega 32X, Nintendo 64DD (Only in Japan, not released in US due to poor sales) and PlayStation Move.
Then don't say poor quality games, because they aren't. Sales don't reflect how good a game is. It's not even surprising it hasn't sold much. Low WiiU sales means less sales of a game on it. How are they suppose to gain users if they don't release games?
And this from a company, who in Japan, had a modem port on just about every piece of hardware they ever produced, back to the original Famicom. How dumb. Just start releasing Mario on iOS.
Now at least you come back with some content. There are too many users on this forum that only succeed in posting things like "Nintendo has a lot of cash, they are fine", "Apple should buy Nintendo" etc etc.
The problem is always more complicated than many allow to investigate. Also your assertion that Nintendo games will not work on iOS is short sighted. Nintendo is an expert in inventing new user interfaces and is the best placed company to do this also for iOS. Business is not a ceteris paribus situation, where only one variable changes. That's why many options are open to Nintendo, but they also need to take into account that they then need to adjust many levers.
Most posters on this forum think in one-lever situations: buy Nintendo, put games on iOS, develop a new console... It is never that easy.
Well there you go then! I have very little knowledge of modern consoles past PS2, the original XBox, and have only played on a Wii a handful of times. I am kind of old. Grew up on a Commodore 64 and the last console I owned was the N64 in college. When I say virtual console, I simply mean a generic emulator. If that is a term Nintendo uses I didn't even know that.
What does a game like my favourite of all time, Zelda: a Link to the Past cost on the Wii or WiiU?
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No, I am thinking more as a supplementary income on something they make little to no money on now, and using that to leverage their new products, not just as a separate isolated income stream.
But you have corrected me already, as I wasn't aware they already have a virtual console offering on the Wii and WiiU.
People, as long as Nintendo is in the hardware business, they will never port their games to play on mobile devices or other consoles. Never. Doing so would lower the value proposition of their hardware. Nobody, with any sense of business, would do this. Nintendo would need to first make a strategic business decision to completely leave the hardware market. But this would not be a good thing. Nintendo becoming a software only company would not benefit anyone. Not the game industry nor gamers/consumers, themselves. Nintendo needs to stay in the hardware business as they are the true innovators. Marketing is their true problem. The Wii U is a fantastic console and a system that all gamers should own. But most people dont know this due to awareness issues and problems with branding.
This new web-based service is a good step for Nintendo. They should definitely be leveraging mobile to enhance the console experience. Building a strong social community should be a priority for Nintendo. That is how they will get people talking about Nintendo products/games. MiiVerse has been good but it needs to be broadened. The social aspect needs to be expanded and made into something that people of all ages would want to use.
Sega is a poor shadow of a company of what it once was. This is partly due to them leaving the hardware business. Nintendo would cease being what it is if it left the hardware business.
This new web-based service is a good step for Nintendo. They should definitely be leveraging mobile to enhance the console experience. Building a strong social community should be a priority for Nintendo. That is how they will get people talking about Nintendo products/games. MiiVerse has been good but it needs to be broadened. The social aspect needs to be expanded and made into something that people of all ages would want to use.
Sega is a poor shadow of a company of what it once was. This is partly due to them leaving the hardware business. Nintendo would cease being what it is if it left the hardware business.