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They arent going to be exclusive to Playstation, or any other console for that matter, unless they are getting paid to do so. Thats simply how this industry works. Exclusivity costs money.
You are speaking about single licensing deal between independent companies. I am speaking about the fusion of platforms and making Sony and Nintendo allies in the war for market and profit share. Forget the Xbone! The competition for dirty console gaming peasants is the glorious pc gaming master race. Even on a Mac you can bootcamp into Windows and run all the games natively. You are literally cutting the potential profits in half by not running Nintendo and Sony games on the same hardware.
Nintendo's best move, if they were going to go this route, would be developing games for both consoles. Given the popularity of Nintendo first party titles, I have no doubt that Nintendo could sell at least 3 million copies on each console.
Nintendos profits come from superior gaming experience and that comes from developing software and hardware together. So they have at least to maintain control over the controller. The goal is to stay in the hardware business, but leaving the isolation of their own underpowered incompatible console architecture. Pretty much the same what Apple did with its own PowerPC to Intel switch.
Your idea of all Japanese game makers agreeing to produce games for just a single console is NEVER going to happen as it makes absolutely no business sense.
It's pretty much the only thing that makes sense. Because it is virtually risk-free compared to all the other proposed strategies, as there are:

1: Doing nothing, people will always buy Nintendo consoles, like Atari.
2: Abandoning hardware and becoming a software firm, like Sega.
3: Becoming a mobile games company, like Rovio.

None of the alternatives is especially compelling.
 
seriously, i would have bought Ipod touch just to play Nintendo games.

I have an iphone and just enjoying casual free games once in awhile but if Nintendo really going to make ios game, im down. Now i have no reason to just buy another Ipod to play games because most ios games are rubbish or freemium sucking your money. I would have bought Mario brothers at 6.99 or even 9.99 at sight because i know its worthed. Not bunch of Mario/Zelda rip-off you see on appstore selling at 3.99.
 
I'm interested in a grand total of…

wait for it…

None of those games that you have listed. I have played a lot of games, and I have to say, very few live up to the $50-60 that is asked for. I'll give you $10, max, for most of them. I buy 3-4 games a year (that's all I have the time or money for) so if Nintendo could release games every few months, I'd be good with that

I buy Nintendo games because they have a reputation for rock solid games (when they aren't aimed at the casual market) worth every cent. Nobody else makes games that are as fun as Nintendo (graphics be damned - I couldn't care less. Know what I'm playing in my free time right now? Super Metroid. It's 240x320 and has 256 colors to work with. HD, polycounts, lighting and physics be damned - this game is 2D. And you know what? That's okay because it's still far more fun than most of the games made these days.)

Statistics don't make a game fun. Nor does a specific setting or genre or anything like that. Making a game fun is an art form - it's not as simple as making the game as realistic as possible (and in fact, I've found that the more fun games tend to be the less realistic ones.)

Regarding game development times - from what I can tell, the vast majority of the time and money isn't spent doing anything important. People come up with ideas for the game, it gets programmed, they use stand-in graphics to test the game, and what takes forever is doing the actual artwork. It's not spent building the levels - it's spent making the levels pretty.

If I were to make a game studio (which I would very much like to do - I'm hoping to get money quickly programming for other people, and then starting up a game studio) - I'd probably have some kind of rule that models are limited to under 1K triangles. Not for the purpose of style, but just so that we don't waste time and money polishing the relatively unimportant aspects of the game.

Super Metroid is a great game, but your analysis of what is important in gaming is incredibly off. Time and money was spent developing Naughty Dog's story and the connection between the two antagonists. The studio used state of the art motion capture to capture live performances, hired an Oscar winning composer to score the game, hired two of the best voice actors working today (Troy Baker and Nolan North), and contained some of the best visuals of the last-gen consoles. All of that was vital to make the game on the best games ever made. Ever.

In addition, you can't convince me that the $100+ million price tag for GTAV didn't show in the final awesome result.
 
You are speaking about single licensing deal between independent companies. I am speaking about the fusion of platforms and making Sony and Nintendo allies in the war for market and profit share. Forget the Xbone! The competition for dirty console gaming peasants is the glorious pc gaming master race. Even on a Mac you can bootcamp into Windows and run all the games natively. You are literally cutting the potential profits in half by not running Nintendo and Sony games on the same hardware.

No, I am speaking about exclusivity in general. And this still doesnt make any sense as you yourself stated, Sony needs nothing from Nintendo. They are already highly successful so bringing on a hardware partner when they are already in a great position hardware wise makes no sense. Sony would be cutting its profits in half by actually partnering with Nintendo and this still wont change the fact that the videogame market is severely divided so your still going to lose a crapload of potential profits by cutting out Xbox, especially in the US and UK. Sure, its just common sense that anyone who picked up exclusivity on Nintendo titles would benefit dramatically. If they came on board with Sony, Sony's game portfolio would benefit and if they came on board with MS, Xbox's game portfolio would benefit, but becoming partners on hardware is a completely different ballgame. The best way for Nintendo to benefit would be to not side with either of them and develop for both platforms. In regards to potential profits, that is the best course of action Nintendo could take if they were going to cut out hardware creation and focus on game development in the console market.

Dirty console gaming peasants? You have to be kidding me, lol. You can't even get away from fanboys on Macrumors, lol. So sad. Anyways, I have a few basic rules that I follow in regards to internet forums. I never speak with children on internet forums and I never speak with fanboys on internet forums. No offense, but I have learned over the years that there is literally nothing more futile that having a debate with a fanboy.

So at this point I will just agree to disagree and leave it at that. I support all of the platforms including PC gaming and most importantly, I recognize each and every one of these companies for what they really are, major corporations that are out for our money. Unlike fanboys, I hold no ridiculous allegience to any of them.
 
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And that is supposed to mean something? Those are this years big titles and there are FAR more people that are excited for those titles than aren't. The fact that your not interested in them is completely irrelevant. Don't get me wrong, your entitled to your own subjective opinion on those titles, but if your honestly trying to convince people that those aren't major releases and that people arent excited for those titles.....well, your wasting your time.



Once again, is this supposed to mean something? The fact that you think most games fail to live up to their 50-60 dollar price tags is completely irrelevant. If most people believed that, games sales would come to a halt and they haven't. Quite the contrary in fact as sales have been extremely healthy for console games for some time now. On top of that, most people buy a lot more than just 3-4 games per year.

The fact that video games are still only 60 dollars is nothing short of a miracle. Games cost $59.99 back when Sierra was releasing Kings Quest 1 back in 1984. Factoring in inflation, thats basically $134.00 in 2013. Games back then were made by small teams of 3-5 people and required very little money to make. Fast forward to today and you have teams of 50-100+ making some of the major titles and they require a significant amount of money to bring them to market. Yet amazingly the price is still only 60 bucks. Again, games should cost over $130.00 today just based on inflation alone. People that complain about the current pricing of games just have zero perspective on pricing in this market. Gaming has NEVER been cheaper and that is the understatment of the century. Not only are games cheaper than they have ever been, gamers are getting signifcantly more game for thier money then ever before and have a wider selection of games to choose from than every before. There has never been a better time to be a gamer.



Nobody makes games that are as fun as Nintendo? Well considering that is nothing more than subjective opinion, I will assume you just forgot to put the "in my opinion" in front of that. Either way, I disagree 100%. I enjoy Nintendo's games just like the next guy, but in my opinion, there are plenty of other games on the market that I consider to be more fun that Nintendo's games. Grand Theft Auto V and Skyrim are just 2 examples of games I had more fun with than Nintendo's games. Not only were they more fun in my book, I also spent signifcantly more time playing them. In fact, in regards to time spent playing them, there is really no comparison. The longest I spent playing any of Nintendo's games would maybe be 20 hours tops. I spent at least 10 times that playing GTA V and probably 20 times that playing Skyrim.



Statistics don't make a game fun? I think its safe to say that 100% of the gaming population already knows this. Quality game design and a quality story is what makes games fun. Statistics? I honestly have no clue what your even talking about here so I am just going to skip this altogether.



From what you can tell, the majority of game development time isn't spent doing anything important. Really? And you came about this information how exactly? Actually, I appreciate these kinds of comments. I really do. They tell me right off that bat that I am delaing with someone that has absolutely no clue what they are talking about and merely pulling stuff out of thier a*s. The majority of game development time isn't spent on anything important, lol. That could be the single most inaccurate statement I have ever heard regarding videogames. Actually, I take the could be part back. That is without question the single most inaccurate statment I have ever heard regarding videogames.

Every aspect of game development is important. You have the overall world design which is the making of the setting, backstory and theme for the game. You have the system design which creates the game rules and underlying mathematical patterns. You have the content design which is the creation of characters, items, missions, puzlles, etc. You have the writers who create the story, dialogue, and text. You have the level designers who design the world levels and its features. You have the user interface designers who create the user interactions and feedback interfaces (menus, HUD's, etcs). You have the audio designers who create the music for the game and record the voice over work. You have the game testers who are responsible for finding bugs and giving overall feedback. Of course, that is just a rough sketch of overall game design, but one thing is absolutely undeniable to anyone that knows anything about quality game design, each and every one of those aspects to game design is extremely important to creating a quality game. Every AAA game out there was created by a developer that took each and every one of these aspects of game creation seriously. To suggest otherwise only shows you know nothing about this topic whatsoever.

To be perfectly honest, the reality of the situation is the exact opposite of what you said. The vast majority of time and money is spent on doing things very important to the overall develoment of the game, unless your curt Schilling of course.



Let me just stop you right there as your not going to make a game studio so what you would or wouldn't do is completely irrelevant, like the rest of your post. Your not a game designer and from what you have said in this post, your not even much of a gamer, which is probably why your opinions are so far off base.

I've published iOS and web games in the past. What have you done, if I may ask?

If the programmers at these companies are following proper programming techniques, than the vast majority of what they need for each game is already done for them before they start. You know how bullets follow radically different physics in each game you play? Me neither. You know how the way you talk to other players is totally different? The way you connect? The way you move? Oh right - the vast majority of the engine is the exact freaking same from game to game. Most companies don't even bother making their own components for their engines - they just buy an engine like Unity and write scripts for it to add the unique parts of their game.

So, yes, the vast majority of their time is wasted.

As far as most people buy more than 3-4 games, you need a reality check. Count the number of games sold in the US and divide by the population of the US. Most people buy 1 game in the US (probably less.) Take the games sold in the US and divide by the number of consoles sold. IDK what that is, but let me know - I imagine it works out to between 3 and 4.
 
I've published iOS and web games in the past. What have you done, if I may ask?

If the programmers at these companies are following proper programming techniques, than the vast majority of what they need for each game is already done for them before they start. You know how bullets follow radically different physics in each game you play? Me neither. You know how the way you talk to other players is totally different? The way you connect? The way you move? Oh right - the vast majority of the engine is the exact freaking same from game to game. Most companies don't even bother making their own components for their engines - they just buy an engine like Unity and write scripts for it to add the unique parts of their game.

So, yes, the vast majority of their time is wasted.

As far as most people buy more than 3-4 games, you need a reality check. Count the number of games sold in the US and divide by the population of the US. Most people buy 1 game in the US (probably less.) Take the games sold in the US and divide by the number of consoles sold. IDK what that is, but let me know - I imagine it works out to between 3 and 4.

First off, publishing iOS and Web games gives you ZERO expereince in the big gaming markets.The vast majority of what they need for each game is already done before they even start? Wow, just wow! You know what, after reading that statement, I am not even going to do this. Your opinion on game development is so far off base that there is literally no point debating any of this with you. Its clear that you know literaly next to nothing about big game development. Anything I write at this point would be a complete waste of time. Again, this is a case where I will simply agree to disagree. You go on thinking whatever you want to think about game development. Best of luck to ya!
 
Dirty console gaming peasants? You have to be kidding me, lol.

Know your meme! :)
No, I am speaking about exclusivity in general. And this still doesn't make any sense as you yourself stated, Sony needs nothing from Nintendo. ... Sure, its just common sense that anyone who picked up exclusivity on Nintendo titles would benefit dramatically.
See? As you've stated yourself, it's worth something even if you don't need it. Even if the PS4 is already the biggest console platform of its generation, it's always better to be bigger. Nintendo is the company in need for a solution to its hardware problem, so they can't come to Sony and ask for money, only help.

This still won't change the fact that the videogame market is severely divided so your still going to lose a crapload of potential profits by cutting out Xbox, especially in the US and UK.
I somehow doubt that the Brits are any more xbox-loyal than the rest of the world. And even in the US the Xbox probably won't become anyones first choice for watching TV. Kinect is a gimmick and the US customer likes saving $100 bucks for the faster console as much as anyone else. Except for some games with artificial exclusivity, everything that runs on XB1 will also run on PS4 (just with more pixels and a higher frame rate). So the console market isn't that severely divided, only when you're stuck with the Wii U.

The best way for Nintendo to benefit would be to not side with either of them and develop for both platforms.
Because that strategy worked so well for Sega? Leaving the hardware market completely, would be a huge risk for Nintendo, with potentially company destroying ramifications. Nintendo has proved with the Wii Remote that they are capable to developing new kinds of controllers and the adequate games to go along. This is maybe their biggest strength and can't stay unused.
 
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First off, publishing iOS and Web games gives you ZERO expereince in the big gaming markets.The vast majority of what they need for each game is already done before they even start? Wow, just wow! You know what, after reading that statement, I am not even going to do this. Your opinion on game development is so far off base that there is literally no point debating any of this with you. Its clear that you know literaly next to nothing about big game development. Anything I write at this point would be a complete waste of time. Again, this is a case where I will simply agree to disagree. You go on thinking whatever you want to think about game development. Best of luck to ya!

I didn't profess myself as being a professional game developer - I professed myself as likely having a better idea than most people. I flashed my credentials, where are yours? If you worked on some big name game recently, then you probably know more than me. I have a coworker who was a developer for the original Age of Empires and whenever I bring this stuff up he always agrees with me, but he left the industry in favor of industrial programming over a decade ago, so perhaps his knowledge of the industry is dated.

If you have more relevant experience, I'd love to hear about it.

Also, regarding the fact that games are mostly already made, I suggest you read the copyright information or watch the credits for a game. Most games use standard physics engines, like Havok, and standard renderers, like OpenGL, and so on. We're talking about the game development industry, not the game engine industry (although some companies, like ID and Valve, do both.)
 
The fact that video games are still only 60 dollars is nothing short of a miracle. Games cost $59.99 back when Sierra was releasing Kings Quest 1 back in 1984.

ONLY $60? I'm glad you're so rich you think that's cheap. :rolleyes:

There are very very few games out there today that are "worth" $60, IMO. Yes, many games have stunning graphics today (you would figure so based on the improved hardware powering them), but the GAMEPLAY is atrocious in most cases, often having less than 1-3 day's worth of shelf life before you complete the game. And like a bad movie, no one CARES how many people it took to make a BAD game. I've played games made by one person (from old console cartridges to Roller Coaster Tycoon) that were night and day better than all too many modern boring pretty games. One of the few games I find worth every penny of $60 initially was Dragon Age Origins. The gameplay was easily worth a month for the first play through if you did all the side-quests and it had reasons to go back and play again as other types of characters. Ironically, it can be had for $5 in Ultimate form today even for the Mac.

IMO, if you paid $60+ for a game in the 1980s, you deserved to pay it because MOST games were NOT $60. The average price of games back then was around $30-35 for a console ($70-77 today so $60 is a lot closer than you would have us believe, but the market is much larger today and so sale potentially larger as well). Games were typically cheaper for computer systems ($15-25 was more typical of C64 games in my area) and if you owned a Colecovision after the game crash of 1983, unbelievably low prices could often be found (I remember getting over a dozen games for Christmas when it was discontinued for like $5 each brand new in the box and a roller controller for like $20. I think the first time I paid more than $35 for a game was Shadows of the Empire for the N64 ($70 as I recall).
 
ONLY $60? I'm glad you're so rich you think that's cheap. :rolleyes:

There are very very few games out there today that are "worth" $60, IMO. Yes, many games have stunning graphics today (you would figure so based on the improved hardware powering them), but the GAMEPLAY is atrocious in most cases, often having less than 1-3 day's worth of shelf life before you complete the game. And like a bad movie, no one CARES how many people it took to make a BAD game. I've played games made by one person (from old console cartridges to Roller Coaster Tycoon) that were night and day better than all too many modern boring pretty games. One of the few games I find worth every penny of $60 initially was Dragon Age Origins. The gameplay was easily worth a month for the first play through if you did all the side-quests and it had reasons to go back and play again as other types of characters. Ironically, it can be had for $5 in Ultimate form today even for the Mac.

IMO, if you paid $60+ for a game in the 1980s, you deserved to pay it because MOST games were NOT $60. The average price of games back then was around $30-35 for a console ($70-77 today so $60 is a lot closer than you would have us believe, but the market is much larger today and so sale potentially larger as well). Games were typically cheaper for computer systems ($15-25 was more typical of C64 games in my area) and if you owned a Colecovision after the game crash of 1983, unbelievably low prices could often be found (I remember getting over a dozen games for Christmas when it was discontinued for like $5 each brand new in the box and a roller controller for like $20. I think the first time I paid more than $35 for a game was Shadows of the Empire for the N64 ($70 as I recall).

I think his point was that the price of games hasn't matched inflation.

genesiscatalog-inflation-adjusted.jpg


Apple conditioning iOS users to think that $5-10 is a market competitive price for a AAA game doesn't help either.
 
ONLY $60? I'm glad you're so rich you think that's cheap. :rolleyes:

There are very very few games out there today that are "worth" $60, IMO. Yes, many games have stunning graphics today (you would figure so based on the improved hardware powering them), but the GAMEPLAY is atrocious in most cases, often having less than 1-3 day's worth of shelf life before you complete the game. And like a bad movie, no one CARES how many people it took to make a BAD game. I've played games made by one person (from old console cartridges to Roller Coaster Tycoon) that were night and day better than all too many modern boring pretty games. One of the few games I find worth every penny of $60 initially was Dragon Age Origins. The gameplay was easily worth a month for the first play through if you did all the side-quests and it had reasons to go back and play again as other types of characters. Ironically, it can be had for $5 in Ultimate form today even for the Mac.

IMO, if you paid $60+ for a game in the 1980s, you deserved to pay it because MOST games were NOT $60. The average price of games back then was around $30-35 for a console ($70-77 today so $60 is a lot closer than you would have us believe, but the market is much larger today and so sale potentially larger as well). Games were typically cheaper for computer systems ($15-25 was more typical of C64 games in my area) and if you owned a Colecovision after the game crash of 1983, unbelievably low prices could often be found (I remember getting over a dozen games for Christmas when it was discontinued for like $5 each brand new in the box and a roller controller for like $20. I think the first time I paid more than $35 for a game was Shadows of the Empire for the N64 ($70 as I recall).


and those old games came on flash storage cartridges which was expensive back in the day. even then PS1 games were like $50 and the N64 were $60 because they still used carts

and there were just as much crap games in the past as today. with the PS1 Sony even had a strategy to dump as many third party games on the market to make it look better than Sega with a more limited selection
 
I think his point was that the price of games hasn't matched inflation.

Apple conditioning iOS users to think that $5-10 is a market competitive price for a AAA game doesn't help either.

And yet your late '80s Photoshopped flyer only proved my point that the average game price was NOT $60 back then. Yes, by the late '80s there were some high priced games (I already gave the Shadows of the Empire example in the '90s for the N64), but on the same hand, if you look at actual retail history, there was a LOT more leeway for retailers to give deep discounts. Back then, SUGGESTED retail was just that. Apple has given the impression that there is no longer such a thing as discounted shopping or sales. Cars are often purposely overpriced at retail so that dealers have room to "deal" and no one in their right mind paid $18k for a Chevy Cavalier, for example. They typically actually sold for around $12k brand new. Game cartridges weren't all that different. Maybe if you bought them on the day they were released you'd pay closer to retail, but they came down pretty fast.

The other major thing to consider is that not everything in life is a straight inflation adjustment. Electronics like computers and TVs generally have come down in price to not just sell, but make over the years as the economies of scale improve with larger audiences and the automation to make them improve, etc. I can now make a studio quality truly audiophile quality album at home for pennies on the dollar. I couldn't really do that in the '80s or '90s. There's also what the market will bear and how many are willing to pay $100 for a game with a shelf life of two weeks? Movie tickets have gone way up, but the price to buy a movie to keep at home has gone way down since the $80-120 VHS days. The point is that inflation doesn't explain ANY of these things by itself and so one has to wonder how much thought the people trying to ram that idea down our throats have given the subject.
 
And yet your late '80s Photoshopped flyer only proved my point that the average game price was NOT $60 back then.

...

You're talking about cost savings from digital distribution vs physical, which is valid, and hardware costs coming down over time, which is also valid but unrelated to games.

I'm talking about the price of games not scaling over time. Here's a graph showing the cost of game development rising exponentially over generations. Doesn't make sense to think $5-10 iOS prices can support AAA game development, even if you add float for digital distribution.
 
You're talking about cost savings from digital distribution vs physical, which is valid, and hardware costs coming down over time, which is also valid but unrelated to games.

I'm talking about the price of games not scaling over time. Here's a graph showing the cost of game development rising exponentially over generations. Doesn't make sense to think $5-10 iOS prices can support AAA game development, even if you add float for digital distribution.

I'm saying I'd rather play Donkey Kong from the early '80s than half the garbage put out by giant teams of people that wouldn't know a good game if it hit them in the face. Games for a few bucks makes sense for single authors that could potentially get millions of sales for low prices where they might not get any at higher prices. Personally, if I could make a million, I'd retire. I wouldn't be rich living off that, but I wouldn't have to work. People seem to think games have to look like real life to be "good" when in fact, an Intellivision game like AD&D is blocky but more fun than have the crap coming out today. Gameplay is more important than graphics and it doesn't take a giant team of people to make a "fun" game.
 
And yet your late '80s Photoshopped flyer only proved my point that the average game price was NOT $60 back then. Yes, by the late '80s there were some high priced games (I already gave the Shadows of the Empire example in the '90s for the N64), but on the same hand, if you look at actual retail history, there was a LOT more leeway for retailers to give deep discounts. Back then, SUGGESTED retail was just that. Apple has given the impression that there is no longer such a thing as discounted shopping or sales. Cars are often purposely overpriced at retail so that dealers have room to "deal" and no one in their right mind paid $18k for a Chevy Cavalier, for example. They typically actually sold for around $12k brand new. Game cartridges weren't all that different. Maybe if you bought them on the day they were released you'd pay closer to retail, but they came down pretty fast.

The other major thing to consider is that not everything in life is a straight inflation adjustment. Electronics like computers and TVs generally have come down in price to not just sell, but make over the years as the economies of scale improve with larger audiences and the automation to make them improve, etc. I can now make a studio quality truly audiophile quality album at home for pennies on the dollar. I couldn't really do that in the '80s or '90s. There's also what the market will bear and how many are willing to pay $100 for a game with a shelf life of two weeks? Movie tickets have gone way up, but the price to buy a movie to keep at home has gone way down since the $80-120 VHS days. The point is that inflation doesn't explain ANY of these things by itself and so one has to wonder how much thought the people trying to ram that idea down our throats have given the subject.

Sorry for the long delay in responding. Got pulled out of the country on a job and just got back in town. As for your posts, sorry to say but your just dead wrong. The MSRP for 95% of all major releases by the big game producing companies back in those days was 49.99-59.99. In fact, I collect scans of game catalogs, advertisements, etc. and I have the catalogs from all of the big companies from those years, which have the MSRP prices for each game in them. Go ahead and send me your email address and I will be more than happy to send you a couple hundred GB's of material that will more than prove you wrong. Or if you have particular companies in mind, just tell me which ones and I will be more than happy to just send those particular catalogs to you. Sure, you could find games on sale back then just as you can today. That changes nothing. I am talking about the MSRP of the games when they were first released on the market after all that is exactly what your looking at when you say 60 dollars for today's market. Games go on sale faster today than they ever did back in the day, which is ultimately just another reason why the gaming market today is VASTLY cheaper than its ever been.

So the fact that you can still buy games today for 60 bucks is nothing short of a miracle. Even if you were to cut out all of the MAJOR differences in game development, its still a miracle just based on inflation alone. When you then add all of those MAJOR differences.....well, the fact that we are still only paying 60 bucks is nothing short of a miracle. As I stated before, games were made by teams of 3-5 people back in the day. Now they are made by teams of 50-100+. Games cost next to nothing to develop back in the day, now they require millions of dollars, sometimes tens of millions. Were even seeing games now that extend into the hundreds of millions. You literally can't even compare game development back in the day to game development today, at least not in regards to overall cost and resources required. Its literally night and day.

Bottom line - Gaming has never been cheaper and the people that complain about game prices in today's market have absolutely ZERO perspective on not only the history of game pricing in general, but also the very basic understanding of monetary inflation. Hell, the 60 dollar pricing we see today is only for the console side. Most of the games that are released these days on the computer side average FAR FAR below that $60 figure. Most games released on the PC side cost between $10-$30 dollars, which only makes complaining about current prices all the more ridiculous.

Of course, the same can be said for the hardware side as well. Not only are we paying significantly less for gaming hardware, were getting signifciantly more for the money were spending.
 
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Sorry for the long delay in responding. Got pulled out of the country on a job and just got back in town. As for your posts, sorry to say but your just dead wrong.

It's this attitude problem that makes your posts offensive. I've already stated the MSRP back then was set way higher than actual real world prices so shops could have discounts and sales. The actual REAL WORLD prices were always 25-50% lower than retail. I know full well what I paid for games back then and it was NEVER $60. $10-30 was as much as I ever spent until the N64 came out. If there were games selling for higher than that, I never touched them. Even N64 games had a lot of latitude and came down in price quickly (i.e. never buy a game on the first day it's for sale unless you want to get screwed). The bottom line is you're living in a parallel universe. Games today usually DO sell for full retail when they first come out giving a reasonable account for the difference in typical prices paid (rather than MSRP). The other reasons have already been given and discussed and IGNORED by you. If you want to believe the rest of us are all dead wrong, go ahead. Ignore reality. I don't give a crap at this point. All I know is if people won't pay $150 for a game, no one will sell them at that price point. You can't escape the rules of supply and demand. There's no "miracle" involved. If you sell your hardware at $150 like the Game Cube was doing shortly after it came out, trying to charge $150 for ONE game would never fly. And if you have a $60 game that sucks hard and a $40 game blows it away, people will expect to pay $40 for a good game. And if you have 20 MILLION customers for one console and 200 MILLION for another, you can expect prices to be lower on the latter (e.g. Macs versus PCs) at least in short order (explaining why Mac games still cost $50 two years later while the PC version sells for $5 as the Mac developers are hoping to recoup their costs but then they just don't sell since the Mac user will buy the $5 version and boot into Windows to play it. Then that Mac developer stops making Mac games).

There was also the game crash between 1983 and 1984 when game prices plummeted to dirt cheap (also previously discussed and ignored by you). Basically, you ignore reality and look at MSRP that often lasted no more than a week or two in many cases.

Article discussing retail versus real world prices (90s examples) and discussion (notice mention of how much cheaper C64 games were than console games; cartridges always cost more than disk-based):

http://beta.slashdot.org/story/142096

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Typical Atari 2600 prices paid recounted by people that actually bought them in the 1980s:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/76056-1980s-prices-of-atari-2600-games/

Video Game Crash and typical real world game prices for 1982:

"Whereas the typical game of 1982 cost US$34.95 — about US$75 in 2007 when adjusted for inflation — the discount bins quickly settled on the price of US$4.95 per game" See http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Video_game_crash_of_1983

While this article would seem to support your position, notice the unadjusted prices for those Genesis games; only ONE of them is over $60. The average is $48, not $60 and that's a console, not a computer like the C64 or Amiga or the PC where games were typically much cheaper (more like $25-35 real world and that's not even accounting for the $5 1983 game crash prices for consoles that can't be ignored. The article also discusses expanded markets and flexibility in actual pricing versus retail.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2010/10/an-inconvenient-truth-game-prices-have-come-down-with-time/

Frankly, I've wasted enough time proving my point.
 
It's this attitude problem that makes your posts offensive. I've already stated the MSRP back then was set way higher than actual real world prices so shops could have discounts and sales. The actual REAL WORLD prices were always 25-50% lower than retail. I know full well what I paid for games back then and it was NEVER $60. $10-30 was as much as I ever spent until the N64 came out. If there were games selling for higher than that, I never touched them. Even N64 games had a lot of latitude and came down in price quickly (i.e. never buy a game on the first day it's for sale unless you want to get screwed). The bottom line is you're living in a parallel universe. Games today usually DO sell for full retail when they first come out giving a reasonable account for the difference in typical prices paid (rather than MSRP). The other reasons have already been given and discussed and IGNORED by you. If you want to believe the rest of us are all dead wrong, go ahead. Ignore reality. I don't give a crap at this point. All I know is if people won't pay $150 for a game, no one will sell them at that price point. You can't escape the rules of supply and demand. There's no "miracle" involved. If you sell your hardware at $150 like the Game Cube was doing shortly after it came out, trying to charge $150 for ONE game would never fly. And if you have a $60 game that sucks hard and a $40 game blows it away, people will expect to pay $40 for a good game. And if you have 20 MILLION customers for one console and 200 MILLION for another, you can expect prices to be lower on the latter (e.g. Macs versus PCs) at least in short order (explaining why Mac games still cost $50 two years later while the PC version sells for $5 as the Mac developers are hoping to recoup their costs but then they just don't sell since the Mac user will buy the $5 version and boot into Windows to play it. Then that Mac developer stops making Mac games).

There was also the game crash between 1983 and 1984 when game prices plummeted to dirt cheap (also previously discussed and ignored by you). Basically, you ignore reality and look at MSRP that often lasted no more than a week or two in many cases.

Article discussing retail versus real world prices (90s examples) and discussion (notice mention of how much cheaper C64 games were than console games; cartridges always cost more than disk-based):

http://beta.slashdot.org/story/142096

-
Typical Atari 2600 prices paid recounted by people that actually bought them in the 1980s:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/76056-1980s-prices-of-atari-2600-games/

Video Game Crash and typical real world game prices for 1982:

"Whereas the typical game of 1982 cost US$34.95 — about US$75 in 2007 when adjusted for inflation — the discount bins quickly settled on the price of US$4.95 per game" See http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Video_game_crash_of_1983

While this article would seem to support your position, notice the unadjusted prices for those Genesis games; only ONE of them is over $60. The average is $48, not $60 and that's a console, not a computer like the C64 or Amiga or the PC where games were typically much cheaper (more like $25-35 real world and that's not even accounting for the $5 1983 game crash prices for consoles that can't be ignored. The article also discusses expanded markets and flexibility in actual pricing versus retail.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2010/10/an-inconvenient-truth-game-prices-have-come-down-with-time/

Frankly, I've wasted enough time proving my point.

You havent proved anything and bringing up the crash of 1983 as an example of how fast games went on sale is nothing short of laughable. Games went on sale at SIGNIFICNATLY slower rates back in the day, and no, I am not talking about the crash of 1983 or the year leading up to the crash for that matter. I never was talking about those years and I am still not talking about those years as they have absolutely ZERO relavenace in this discussion. I am talking about all of the other years, when gaming was healthy and the market wasn't nose diving into oblivion. 1982-1983 have absolutely no relevance in this discussion whatsoever. If the market crashes in a couple years, then you can bring up those years and make proper comparisons between the two. I am talking about game pricing during the normal healthy years in the market, not game pricing during the worst crash in the history of gaming, lol.

Your wrong. Its plain as day for anyone that has any understanding of this topic whatsoever to see. 1983, lol. Unbelievable. Your posts have proven 2 things, that the prices of video games crashed when the gaming market itself crashed (WOW, really?) and that my statment regarding people complaining about pricing having zero perspective was 100% accurate.
 
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You havent proved anything and bringing up the crash of 1983 as an example of how fast games went on sale is nothing short of laughable.

Your statements are ludicrous and your behavior is absolutely unbelievably atrocious the way you are attacking my posts with nothing more than conjecture and overpriced examples. I've priced LINK after LINK after LINK of actual proof and you've shown nothing but contempts and insults for the truth that anyone can see who can actually stand to read your posts at this point. I'm only sad I wasted my time thinking you were serious and wanted an actual discussion rather than what now looks to me to be either a refusal to admit the truth or just basic trolling. I LIVED during the '80s and '90s and bought many games and what you are saying is either a limited few or just plain BS and I've provided the proof. You won't accept it. Well, too bad for you. Now please go away and stop wasting my valuable time.
 
This may become a problem in the future. But the 3DS is flying off the shelf at the moment. I'm not saying that Nintendo can keep producing handhelds like this forever, they may have to adjust later, but for now I don't think they have anything to fear from the iPhone or iPad.

I agree that the quality vs. quantity ratio on iOS is clearly skewed towards quantity. And I am well aware of the quality games(like I said, I'm a gamer), but I disagree that they surpass anything on the 3DS. I could get into technical details, but long story short, games like Infinity Blade look very good as a static image, but you can't explore in it. The developer simply has to create a non-interactive image around the characters. This requires far less in terms of resources than say, Mario 3d Land. A game like Infinity Blade could easily run on a 3DS (Despite Epic's BS about it not being capable). I just think that the best iPhone game, does not compare favorably to a decent 3DS game. The experience is much worse to me, while that is admittedly different from person to person.

I'm willing to see how this plays out. I have a love/hate relationship with the company. I love their games so much, that it infuriates me when I see them make terrible business decisions. They seem to really understand that they screwed up with the Wii U. I think they make some better moves in the future.



I agree with most of that, but that's what I imagine they are trying here. I imagine they will have little mobile experiences that draw people into awareness of their much better and fully featured consoles and games.

Touchscreen controls and experiences like the best console games simply doesn't happen. You'll never see experiences like Zelda, or the Last of Us, or Halo (One for all three systems to make everyone happy) on a touchscreen device. It's just not possible.

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I clearly meant Nintendo. I'll edit the post. Good job with critical thinking though.


Oops. Yes.

The World Ends With You was a decent port to iOS as a "real game,". But I agree with your sentiments on this subject. I do think Nintendo could benefit from releasing retro games for iOS to push their brand with that nostalgia factor, but they are far from failing.
 
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