NMR: Quark and IBM's Processor Plans

[beatle888]

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
Mr. Hey

I've seen this happen to friends firsthand and I understand your comments in relation to OS9, but the transitional difficulties and productivity loss are going to be just as tough moving from 9 to X as from 9 to XP. At least the app would remain the same. Retraining to learn ID2 would be an even greater loss of productivity.

In the simplest terms, Quark would not be going this route if they weren't happy with how many and how effectively PC users are using their product. Bottom line...

That light should have a speed limit and that the sun is the center of our solar system were once considered ridiculous statements too. Let us hope that time is less kind to me.

Remember... I like OSX and ID2...

ok, i just have to say ad agencies and designers
will not use windows. thats just crazy. these
are creative types and most still dont know
how to take full advantage of quark or the
mac. believe me, i use to manage the studio
at the last ad agency i worked at.
i just used indesign for the first time on my
last project. sure i stumbled around a LITTLE
but i was really comfortable in it. and to be
honest...designers and art directors only need
to be able to manipulate text and place graphics.
the production artists will handle the rest and
any production artist should be able to make
their way around indesign within moments of
opening the application for the first time.

the cost of rebuilding your font database for
one will slow people down from moving to pc's.
fonts are expensive. anyway, i just had to post
in response to yours. i think your wrong.
indesign is just to easy to use. these applications
arent THAT deep. there pretty easy to figure
out. and like i said earlier, the creatives only
need to know how to push graphics and fonts
around...the production artists will do the rest.

 

[beatle888]

ha ha ha ha ha


good bye quark. dont come back pleeeeaaazzee.

how long have they screwed us on updates
and features? god i hate quark. did they add
key access to the tool pallet yet? im not talking
about cycling through the tools, i know you can
do that. but can you access the tool pallet like
say in photoshop? "V" for the move tool, etc...
ha ha ha quirk sucks.


.

 

[hvfsl]

Well my Univerity in the Uk has switched totally to adobe and Macromedia graphics and video software. We no longer use Quark for our graphic design courses, so in my eyes Quark is already dead. I did my lastest project on Indesign 2 (Mac OS X)and got a much better mark for it than my Quark work.

 

[Frobozz]

Re: Say whut? Move to a PC? LOL

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
...many larger publishing houses (as well as ad agencies/design houses on the fence) would find switching to Wintel boxes running Quark a more favorable option than moving over to the ever-evolving OSX. There would actually be much less of a learning curve and once you were in the program designing, you wouldn't be very aware of what OS you were using.

You obvoiusly haven't tried this. It's not a simple process. I've worked in a company where they insisted all poeple use a PC. including the designers. It was a horrible choice, obviously. Have you tried to use Quark on a PC and get it to work with your motherbaord, graphics card, and printer? Have you tried to send that to a printer? Not only do the printers seem confused when you give them a PC Quark file, but they look at you and ask how you managed to get THAT far.

We had a bunch of standard Dell boxes and the print designer couldn't get Quark to run for more than 20 minutes at a time. Who knows which part of her system was causing the crash?! It crashed constantly, and she was never able to calibrate her color properly. Sending prints to the (all windows based) network were just as perilous.

Mac people would NEVER chose to enter into the Frankensteinian world of Windows where nothing is standard, everything in unintuitive, and crashes are regular practice.

 

[e-coli]

Re: What real world are YOU guys from?

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
Don't get me wrong. I've been an Apple user since the II+ and started into OSX with the public beta, but this is not good news. ID2 is a fine program, but many larger publishing houses (as well as ad agencies/design houses on the fence) would find switching to Wintel boxes running Quark a more favorable option than moving over to the ever-evolving OSX. There would actually be much less of a learning curve and once you were in the program designing, you wouldn't be very aware of what OS you were using. On top of that, many of these shops are running older hardware that may struggle with OSX's overhead. I've you're going to buy a new box, not only is the PC cheaper (the short run matters to bean-counters), but your existing peripherals will probably work fine with Windows (but not necessarily with OSX).

Hate Quark all you want, but they're still the standard. Very slow to upgrade, but never underestimate how well the tortise will do in the long run. As a Mac lover, I take this attitude as a personal insult and I hope Quark falls flat on its face, but unfortunately, they're holding quite a bit of power now... - j

We shouldn't be delusional. The trillion dollar advertising and publishing industries aren't going to stop, and then switch platforms when one software company becomes arrogant and short sighted. Especially when said company considers their market to be "dying".

...and ESPECIALLY not when there's a drastically better alternative available that fits right into the workflow.

 

[cthorp]

Quark be gone

I have a small design business working from home. Although I work for myself, my clients include several fortune 500 companies. I have used Quark since 1990.

My latest project is for one of the largest pharmacutical companies in the world, it is also my first project in ID. Right now my biggest hold back is a print driver for my Epson 5000 with Firery RIP. My observations are as follows.

There is almost no learning curve to get up and running. ID 2 allows me to do things within the program that required photoshop and complex alignment.
example: A drop shadow that is half on an image and half in white space.

There have been numerous things that seem to be more elegantly handled in ID2.

Seeing clean eps files is huge! Now I can see how things are going to look on a spread without looking at an 8-bit preview.

I am having the printer use acrobat for final output. I had everything set up in reader spreads. When the printer asked that everything be single pages (it will be perfect bound) I began thinking of the best way to do this. Thankfully I checked and ID 2 allowed me to change the entire doc with one dialouge box.
All that was left was to extend the bleed in the gutter and I was done.

On a down side. Quark feels more fluid when scrolling or panning.

ID 2's picture update could use an "update all" feature. If there is one please let me know.

My conclusion: I plan to ditch Quark ASAP. What I need to do this is a driver for my printer a little nerve and that's about it.

Currently my G4 laptop is total OS X 10.2. I do not run classic at all. My desktop is OS 9 and is hooked to my RIP and scanners. I absloutly love OS 10 and look forward to a complete migration.

Cameron Thorp


cthorp@mac.com

theispot.com/artist/cthorp

 

[cthorp]

training

Another note:
Since like many pros I have been using Illustrator for years. In design is so similar to illustrator that anyone with experience it will have no problem in ID. This is why I say there is almost no learning curve.

Cameron

 

[e-coli]

Re: Quark be gone

Originally posted by cthorp

ID 2's picture update could use an "update all" feature. If there is one please let me know.

select the multiple links in the links palette, and chose update links from the palette drop down menu. It works for multple images.

 

[ennerseed]

THinksecret

Thinksecret has further details of how Indesign will further succeed into designers hearts.

after using Indesign for a couple of years all I can say is: "my precious" - read with Gollum voice

 

[Awimoway]

Re: Re: Quark be gone

...questions about Mac OS X provoked an Ebrahimi tirade of Old Testament proportions: Quark’s Dear Leader told his squirming guests that “the Macintosh platform is shrinking,” and that “publishing is dying.” He suggested that anyone dissatisfied with Quark’s Mac commitment should “switch to something else,”

This is so inflammatory and screwed up that it's hard to believe, and maybe some ID zealot is setting Quark up (an easy target for trashy rumors, I admit).

If it is true, then I think someone needs to check Ebrahimi's dishware for lead and keep him away from open flames and fiddles. I have never used ID, but I think it's safe to say that many designers will jump to it before they jump off a cliff—through Windows.

Think about it—which is more time-consuming and expensive (emotionally as well as monetarily), switching to a different Mac app or throwing out your whole computer for a detestable OS? Thought so. I think a lot of corporate users will understand this better than some of the people who have posted and think that Windows is inevitable in the professional world.


Edit: 1:45p MST—Added a couple thoughts.

 

[solvs]

I know some smaller places that use all PCs, mostly for the reason someone else mentioned - someone higher up in the company says so. All of the creative people want to use Macs. I know a lot of people who use ID 1.5 or 2, PC and Mac (myself included), but I don't know a lot of people who use Quark on PCs. Actually, I don't think I know any. Most of us didn't even know there was new PC version of Quark until recently.

Do they really think those who go cheap and get PCs are really going to spend more for an outdated version Quark over ID? And why upgrade when a new version is finally available (how many people upgraded last time)? Especially when you can get Adobe Design Collection with everything you need. To semi-quote someone else's Sig. ID isn't perfect, but it looks that way compared to Quark. People are going to take this as a slap in the face (what is he, on crack?) and find some way to make ID work for them. It's much easier to go from Quark and OS 9 to ID and X than to go to Wintels.

How many people just won't upgrade for awhile.

"Print is dead, who needs Macs". This has got to be wrong. Or a bad joke. Steve's gonna be pissed. Free InDesign for everyone. Now if we could only get rid of M$...


On the plus side, 6 GHz looks promising. Performance over numbers, I say. Bring on those IBM 970s.

 

[patrick0brien]

Macs Intel and Pantone

-All

Moving away from Macs in the printing industry would be amongst the stupidest actions of the century. I really have to wonder what 'chemical assistance' the CEO of Quark has been using.

If facts are still accurate, and due to the base architecture of Intel's chips this should be, Intel, AMD, and by virtue Windows is incompatible and incapable of using the Pantone color system.

It was developed with Apple after all.

Now before someone sticks my head on a pike, let me qualify that extreme wording. Wintel Boxes are capable of thinking in Pantone colors, and simulating them with CMYK (for those not around printing, that's Process color and it consists of Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and blacK). But, if a wintel user wishes to do a print run using Pantone colors, they send it to a press that runs the presses with...

Any guesses?

None?

Aww c'mon guys!

MACS!

This is also, BTW, why Apple is so difficult to kill (by the wintel pundits).

 

[Monomni]

Stick a fork in your Quark - it's done!!

Sheesh... Definitely time to jump off the Quark train... the tracks ahead go careening off a cliff.

I have been a devoted Mac user for 17 years, but I'm not usually an "early adopter." It took me a while to switch to OS X, but when Jaguar came out, I had it pre-ordered the minute it was available. And even THEN I was putting up with Classic (and its "issues") to use my ONE holdout non-OS X program - Quark.

Well, not anymore folks! I was encouraged by the news that Quark might be OS X in early 2003 - but now, even when Quark does get off its posterior - I'm gonna be long gone!

I agree that Quark is alienating its core user/customer base. Those of us devoted enough to live without significant updates and to shell out for their extortion, um... prices.

Any design house, print shop, or ad agency that is dumb/cheap enough to switch to PC-o-garbage Windoze boxes - they deserve the associated crashes, incompatibilities, and anxiety that goes with it.

'Nuff said.
😀

 

[Toe]

If Quark were publicly traded, I'd short it.


Then again, they really couldn't be THAT stupid, could they? The publishing industry runs on Quark and Macs. If forced to choose, would they throw all their awesome hardware in the garbage, or would they buy a cheap competitive upgrade to the slick InDesign?

Seems like a no-brainer.

 

[creativeczar]

Quark is not that essential

I find it hard to believe that designers and agencies would rather spend thousands of dollars (maybe millions for some of the larger ones) on new software for the Windows platform just because they wanted to stick with Quark. This is a perfect opportunity for Adobe to get the attention of the publishing industry in a big way. Now that art directors and designers are seeing Quark's true colors, maybe they will give InDesign a try. It is not that great a leap and the printers who told me they won't "deal" with InDesign have been using my PDFs created in InDesign for two years. Who's zoomin who?

 

[pilotgi]

I'm really enjoying reading the great posts in this thread. I was a printing press operator for 17 years before I switched professions. The last company I worked for was independently owned and used Macs exclusively in the design dept and I think they used Quark.

I've been out of that business for a while now but the reason my first computer was a Mac was because the graphics guys/gals told me how much better Macs were than pcs. And I'm typing this on my new 800Mhz iBook.

A publishing/design software company who doesn't want to support Apple and OSX?

Strange.

 

[whatever]

What's this I hear about free InDesign. I bought a new Mac a few months back and I didn't hear about this offer.

 

[PrettyMan]

My experience...

I've used Photoshop & Illustrator for years.

I've started with ID two months ago and I think it's simple and productive.

Can it be better ? Sure. But It´s real. Now.

Ciao, Quark.

 

[meddle]

Design Freely

http://www.apple.com/promo/designfreely/

Check it out at the link above. Print off a coupon fill it out and send in a copy of your purchased and Indesign is "In the Mail."

I think I see a new switch campaign. "I was using my old publishing program, and it like "sad mac bomb" and then my hours of work were gone. Since I switched to OS X and Indesign I've had no problems."

 

[Malic]

Re: Re: Re: What real world are YOU guys from?

Originally posted by jayscheuerle


You're a lucky exception then. Quark wouldn't be doing this if you weren't.

Quark is irrelevant? Unfortunately, 95% of the world says the same about the Mac. In this hardball game between stubborn knuckleheads, it's us users who are going to be affected most.

Ok, more evidence. I work for a mid-sized mid-western ad agency and InDesign is on the front burner for consideration in 2003.

Quark as a company does not appear to be interested in the wishes of their customer base. Any company that takes that stance needs to be "humbled."

 

[Marvenp]

Re: What real world are YOU guys from?

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
Don't get me wrong. I've been an Apple user since the II+ and started into OSX with the public beta, but this is not good news. ID2 is a fine program, but many larger publishing houses (as well as ad agencies/design houses on the fence) would find switching to Wintel boxes running Quark a more favorable option than moving over to the ever-evolving OSX. There would actually be much less of a learning curve and once you were in the program designing, you wouldn't be very aware of what OS you were using. On top of that, many of these shops are running older hardware that may struggle with OSX's overhead. I've you're going to buy a new box, not only is the PC cheaper (the short run matters to bean-counters), but your existing peripherals will probably work fine with Windows (but not necessarily with OSX).

Hate Quark all you want, but they're still the standard. Very slow to upgrade, but never underestimate how well the tortise will do in the long run. As a Mac lover, I take this attitude as a personal insult and I hope Quark falls flat on its face, but unfortunately, they're holding quite a bit of power now... - j

Well David Coursey of ZDNet seems to think otherwise. He is recommending that new computer buyers buy a Mac and that Windoze loyalist become at least "adders" if not "switchers". (See link below)
http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/stories/story/0,10738,2898453,00.html
I agree that Mac is having it's troubles right now as OS X is still a fairly new operating system but I could NEVER justify that as a reason to use Windoze.

Feature for feature OS X is the most elegant operating system ever developed and developers need to get off thier arses and get with the program. I don't think we can blame Apple for the lack of drivers of third party peripherals. I think companies like Quark will regret their decision as OS X become more mature and more people make the switch. And just wait until features like Rendezvous and Inkwell come full circle. Wow!

People simply underestimate OS X. There are so many features such as Speech recognition and Multi-language support that get overlooked and/or taken for granted. Speech is very powerful. You actually don't have to touch your keyboard for anything (if set up correctly) and it has been a part of the Mac OS for years! And I won't ever get into AppleScript.

Like it or not, OS X simply rocks! And just think it was only a few years ago we were wondering if it was ever going to materialize. OS X was just a rumor then. I think Apple has done an excellent job of bringing OS X from something that was just on our dream list to something that is usable and powerful today!

 

[MikeH]

I find Quarks' attitude curious and self destructive. I have worked in advertising and design for over fifteen years now (before computers took over from airbrushes and magic markers) and the only thing I'm sure of is that if you don't move with the times you will die. The way Quark is behaving with XPress just suggests unless it gets its act together soon, it will perish. I'm not spouting anti Quark proganda here, although I am unhappy with XPress as it is at the moment, it just seems as though they are cutting their nose off to spite their face.

As for critisising the OS X as a viable platform, that's just foolish, the PC is just not as good in the pre-press environment as a Mac (mainly due too colour matching and font issues) and I should know I've used both extensively - after seeing proofs I frequently have to amend colours on a PC, something I've never needed to do with a Mac (OS 9 or X).

And publishing is dieing? Yeah, sure. One trip to anywhere that sells magazines will tell you otherwise.

Quark need to pull their heads out of their arses/asses and join the 21st century.

 

[Marvenp]

Re: What real world are YOU guys from?

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
Don't get me wrong. I've been an Apple user since the II+ and started into OSX with the public beta, but this is not good news. ID2 is a fine program, but many larger publishing houses (as well as ad agencies/design houses on the fence) would find switching to Wintel boxes running Quark a more favorable option than moving over to the ever-evolving OSX. There would actually be much less of a learning curve and once you were in the program designing, you wouldn't be very aware of what OS you were using. On top of that, many of these shops are running older hardware that may struggle with OSX's overhead. I've you're going to buy a new box, not only is the PC cheaper (the short run matters to bean-counters), but your existing peripherals will probably work fine with Windows (but not necessarily with OSX).

Hate Quark all you want, but they're still the standard. Very slow to upgrade, but never underestimate how well the tortise will do in the long run. As a Mac lover, I take this attitude as a personal insult and I hope Quark falls flat on its face, but unfortunately, they're holding quite a bit of power now... - j

Oh yeah. I forgot to mention that since I own a design company in Japan I constantly get sent adverts for new stuff. Dell just sent me a pamphlet yesterday with their new savings for the holiday season. Feature for feature comparison to the iMac, Dell was actually more expensive. I use the iMac as an example because most people who talk about cheap Windoze boxes are referring to consumer machines. If you are talking about 2, 3Ghz workhorses for video post-production or 3D Animation, they are every bit as expensive as Mac if not more expensive.

Now before you naysayers try to blast me, remember I said feature for feature. The iMac comes with a 17' LCD and a Superdrive not to mention the iapps. Compare prices and you'll see that I'm right. I'm not talking about Joe computer engineer who can build his own machine for about $1,000 bucks.

 

[cthorp]

Thank You

Just wanted to say thanks to all those who responded with input to my question. Have a great holiday!

Thanks,
Cameron

 

[e-coli]

I decided to go straight to the source, and see if there's any truth to this.

Response From Quark
Here's the straight truth: Quark is not shifting its focus away from
the Mac platform. Our focus remains on helping our customers solve their
business problems. We will continue to support the platforms our customers
want to use. We'll develop software for Mac OS and Windows as our customers
want to use those platforms.

If you cut through the purple prose, you'll see that a handful of comments
have been taken out of context and re-cast in an unflattering manner by an
anonymous writer who was not present at the event during which they were
allegedly spoken.

Let me bring back some of the context. The fact of the matter is that the
publishing industry is hurting. Ad revenues are down globally -- down as
much as 70% in some regions. Look on any newsstand and you'll see that there
are far fewer titles than there were two years ago, and page counts are down
across the spectrum. Major dailies across the nation are closing bureaus and
merging departments. Ad firms are fighting for business while corporations
cut spending and bring work in house. Publishing is in a crisis. There is
only one major software company that I know that has dedicated 100% of its
resources to publishing: Quark. The technologies that we talked about in New
York are designed to help publishers do more with fewer resources without
sacrificing quality.

With respect to Mac OS, our market data indicates that fewer publishers are
purchasing Macs, and more of our Mac-using customers are considering
switching to Windows. That doesn't mean we're any less committed to Mac OS.
Mac users constitute the majority of our customer base. We will continue to
support Mac OS (and Windows) as long as they are the platforms of choice by
our customers.

The Mac OS X version of QuarkXPress is far along in its development cycle,
but there is still a lot more testing to do before we release it. We're
working to bring that release to you as quickly as possible without
sacrificing quality. It will be a high quality application with some
paradigm-shifting new features and consequently represents a significant
development and testing effort that simply takes time.

The anonymous writer points out that Mac OS X Server is not on the agenda
for the version of QPS that uses a Microsoft SQL Server database or for
Quark Digital Media System, which uses an Oracle database. There's an
obvious reason. Neither Microsoft SQL Server nor Oracle runs on Mac OS X.
What they omitted is that we emphatically stated that the clients for both
these publishing systems will run on Mac OS X.

In fact, the relationship between Quark and Apple is closer than it has been
in years, and I think that the industry will be pleasantly surprised by some
of the initiatives that Quark and Apple will bring to the market in the near
future.

Please let me know if you'd like to discuss this further.

Sincerely,