No Apple Digital Video Recorder (DVR) Planned?

[bdkennedy1]

Blah blah blah. Yeah and they said there would be no video iPod either.

 

[ipodG8TR]

subscriptions

Good luck with your TIVO and Sirius subsciptions, you'll be pretty pissed if they go out of business.

I agree with the ideas that Apple should offer subscriptions and package deals for full seasons of shows.


You're right -- paying for subscriptions is a bit of a risk, but I thought these were safe bets. The Tivo lifetime service worked out to be the same as 2-1/2 years at the monthly rate and my Sirius worked out to be approx 3. So, I think I'll come out ahead.

Apple needs to agressively price package deals. They have done that in some instances but other times the pricing is way off. But I blame the television studios for that

 

[YunusEmre]

But basically it's an interface to a bunch of stuff you get elsewhere. It's a cool interface, and makes sense if you don't already have the same interface elsewhere.

Well, it is right where I need it, in the living room 😉 I do not want to sit in front of my PC/Mac to listen to music or view photos/video. I want it in my living room and that is where my Tivo is already.

 

[Bonte]

I am a PC user. An Apple PVR would make me switch (and is about the only thing that will get me to Apple). A larger-than-mini is expected, no big deal. 1000$ price tag is also expected. I would want HD. If Apple could do that, I would switch in a second. I have NO expectations of a 500 box... and a whole new line would probablr be best- a great-looking box with DVI-HDMI out. Apple could do this, if they wanted.

This is bad news for me.... 😡

If Apple adds a PVR function it would be heavily DRM'd so there's always something to bitch about. Add a USB hard disk and Elgato© and you have a sub 1000$ PVR. H-D content is useless at the moment with no players/recorders so there is no market for it.

 

[Damek]

Well, it is right where I need it, in the living room 😉 I do not want to sit in front of my PC/Mac to listen to music or view photos/video. I want it in my living room and that is where my Tivo is already.

Well that's what I was saying elsewhere in the post, about having a separate computer/entertainment situation. Yeah, if you view computing as separate from entertainment, some sort of intermediary interface makes sense.

For me, all I want is a 23" iMac to replace my current screen, server, and DVD player. I'd get simple video converter and hook it up between the cable box and the iMac, so I could watch TV on the iMac, and I'd be set. So much power and control in such a small amount of space, that's what I'm dreaming for.

If they don't come out with a 23" iMac by 2008, I guess I'll spend the same amount of money on a Mac mini and a big LCD screen, and get the same result, pretty much.

You may ask me, well what if your girlfriend wants to watch some TV but you want to play a computer game or browse the web or something? Well that's what my iBook is for, silily! 😛

 

[Damek]

If Apple adds a PVR function it would be heavily DRM'd so there's always something to bitch about. Add a USB hard disk and Elgato© and you have a sub 1000$ PVR. H-D content is useless at the moment with no players/recorders so there is no market for it.

Amen brother. I just don't understand HD. HD is pointless and nigh on useless.

I'd rather be trading & sharing good comedy or drama or news clips or whatever than be able to see some footballer's sweat glands! 😛

 

[WindowsDivorcer]

wait and see?

Or others, like elgato could easily do it.

The problem with including DVR capabilities in the Mac mini itself is that they would need analog and several different digital inputs to make everyone happy. There's a reason why elgato has seven different EyeTV products.

The low risk approach for Apple is to allow the 3rd party coys to have a go (e.g. Iomega MiniMax 250GB ext hard disk and Belkin KVM switch Mac mini footprint 'platters') then if it takes off in a big way, they can jump onboard with a simple reduced functionality but more elegantly integrated version.

Either way I can't see it becoming standard as the Mac mini is still aiming at 2 markets, the cheap unobstrusive pc (student digs, parents desk for e-mailing kids etc, and the evolving lounge/home media hub) having it as an optional add-on allows people to buy only if they want the latter.

 

[w00master]

I'll tell you the difference. With the mac you can't watch Scrubs. 🙂
You can't. As I said, iTunes is a great fit and a money saver for some people, if you watch a ton of cable then it will be worth it. I'm not saying everyone should cancel cable and get iTunes. I'm just saying that the people who save a ton of money by watching broadcast TV and buying a few shows from iTunes aren't idiots.

Well, I never claimed that people who use iTunes are idiots. I'm just commenting on those who think that people who use PVR/DVRs are idiots (or at least implying it). Btw, I still do use iTunes occasionally for downloading of some shows, but only on "extreme" situations. I think it's a great idea, but it's just not for me.

True. But someone else offering a similar service doesn't exactly get back the $299 someone spent on Tivo lifetime subscription, does it?

For me, it definitely does without a doubt. Call me a media whore. 😛 I cannot imagine how much more I'd be spending on iTunes w/o a PVR/DVR.

Considering how few of the boxes that include Win Media have TV tuners (and can't record TV, I've seen WinMedia included on laptops) I'd tend to doubt that. Without hard numbers, we can only speculate. Anyone find stats on how widely the DVR features of WinMedia are used? Or even what percentage of WinMedia PC's ship with a tuner?

You cannot get a box that has Windows Media Center w/o some sort of tuner, just an FYI. The PVR/DVR functionality is the main reason why people choose a Windows Media Center box instead of a regular Win XP box.

Except when the network starts the show early or runs it long. But Tivo has added an option to pad record times, right?

Yup Tivo does, but most of the networks have stopped doing this, especially NBC. The only time it really becomes a problem is on days sporting events are broadcasting, but there's not much one can do in those situations.

w00master

 

[w00master]

My cable/DVR box does that, too.

And since I just have one big screen to which I have connected both my computer and my cable/DVR box, I don't need a media center box. My computer is my media center box, and when I want to watch TV, I just flick the button on the screen that switches to the TV input, and voila, there's the cable box's interface.

But I'm not arguing against TiVo, I'm just saying that their main business model (program guide interface with DVR function) is irrelevant if you have a DVR digital cable box. The other stuff is cool, and I guess it makes sense if you have a big house and your "entertainment center" in one room and your computer is all separate off to the side - in that case it makes some sense to have a media box hooked up to your TV system that can access music, photos, etc., over the network.

Well my comments wasn't necessarily all about Tivo, I was talking about PVR/DVRs in general. However, I'm with you on Tivo's business model. In fact, I'm really unsure how to monitize that market at all, especially since the Cable/Satellite providers (and soon to be Telco) are getting into that game. I think at this point the only way for Tivo (and ReplayTV) to survive is probably partner up w/ a lot of these providers. I believe that Tivo did sign some sort of agreement w/ Comcast, but I haven't heard anything on this since.

Personally, even in a big house I would prefer to just have a computer hooked up to a screen an speakers and pipe everything through the computer. TiVo boxes may be turning into basic media-dedicated computers, but I wonder why do that when you can just have an actual computer and have more control over it.

I guess TiVo's added benefit in that case is the "it just works" interface. I guess that's why people like the idea of Front Row.

Well, I agree with you here, but the big benefits for the typical consumer are as you state: "'It just works' interface." Imho, this is the big plus of Tivo vs. Cable/Satellite PVR/DVRs.

w00master

 

[boncellis]

Separate Device

I am not certain whether Apple would ever go this route, but rather than adding different features to the Mac Mini, I wonder if somewhere down the line they will introduce a separate device for the home media setup. The added functionality of the current incarnation of the Mac Mini will doubtless draw new attention from some consumers who are unfamiliar with Macintosh computers, but rather than convergence of technologies which may add certain features at the cost of taking away others, I think Apple could be successful with a dedicated home media device rather than compromise some of the features of its entry-level machine.

Such a device has been rumored before, and I have seen several posters in these forums predict it (including, if I'm not mistaken, an elevator shot of something labeled the "iHome"), but to me the Mac Mini comes up short in this area. It's a wonderful computer, but for some reason I think Apple could provide a better solution for someone who wants iTunes et al integration with his or her television.

When Apple introduced the iPod, I could never have fathomed Apple becoming such a superior and successful consumer electronics manufacturer. They have chosen their spots wisely, and the subsequent halo effect has benefitted them significantly. Why not introduce another device that integrates with the computer rather than being a computer itself? To be fair, I think I know the answer to this question and it is that there simply isn't enough demand at this point, and especially without DVR functions I suspect it wouldn't sell very well. Still, Apple has it within them to introduce another product that has the cachet of the iPod that consumers will fall over themselves to include in their home media setup.

Would something that serves as a wireless internet hub, local iTunes and iTMS server, and Blu Ray player/burner sell? I would welcome Apple into this arena to provide an integrated media solution separate from an actual computer. I could see Front Row acting as the interface built into the firmware with no separate OS. I don't know if it's viable without a broader range of higher quality video content in the iTMS, but that may well be around the corner.

 

[milo]

Well, I never claimed that people who use iTunes are idiots. I'm just commenting on those who think that people who use PVR/DVRs are idiots (or at least implying it).

Has anyone said that people who use DVR's are idiots? My original post was in response to someone who said that anyone who buys shows from itunes is an idiot.

You cannot get a box that has Windows Media Center w/o some sort of tuner, just an FYI.

Absolutely not true. Here's an example, Media Center OS with no tuner:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7631501&type=product&id=1130986697065

 

[Bonte]

It looks like Apple wants to market the mini as a iPod like form factor and its not a bad move.

Keep it small and simple, just add the top necessary components like TV connection and a remote. The rest is provided via 3P add ons, we need a thousand extra's and in time Apple will pick the sherry's and add it to the bundle. In home entertainment it can grow as big as the iPod in 3-4 years but i don't think so, now everybody is keeping an eye on Apple and they can't play the underdog anymore.

 

[iEdd]

I don't understand people's obsession with a mac mini. They are small and poor value and people just want them to be as powerful as powermacs for $500US. It's a mini. It's for PC switchers that already have the monitor and don't like the great value of the iMac. 🙄
I like the sound of the mini, but to add it up, it's just not worth it.

 

[milo]

They are small and poor value and people just want them to be as powerful as powermacs for $500US.

Poor value? The duo isn't much slower than the imac for hundreds less. And to be honest, they're not much slower than the powermacs (at least the duos) for a fraction of the price. The mini fits my needs perfectly, it leaves out the stuff I don't want (like a screen) and provides a reasonably fast computer with plenty of features (wireless, gigabit ethernet, DVD burner) for a good price.

If someone wants a mac for general purpose computing, a mini will do just fine. Why should someone spend more than they need to?

And they are small. That's a good thing.

 

[iEdd]

Sorry milo, but what I mean is that I'd like an apple monitor and to do that it becomes more than double the price. And then, I'd be carrying around a monitor and a mini. With an iMac, I'm just carrying a monitor. I'd feel a little better if they threw in a keyboard/M Mouse with the mac mini.

 

[milo]

You get what you pay for. Sounds like you're complaining about apple monitors not being a good value, not minis.

The iMac obviously fits your needs better. That doesn't mean the mini is a bad value.

 

[Lynxpro]

The EyeTV 500 unit can decode HIDDEN HDTV signals from your analog cable's WALL. It ALSO can receive over the air HDTV by hooking up a superior quality HDTV UHF antennae like the Terk TV5 - $50 at Circuit City - I use where all rabbit ears fail. Cable systems do not block digital signals so far because only a few know how to hook up a third party HDTV tuner like the EyeTV 500.

Wait a sec there. Are you trying to tell me that you are "grabbing" HD content from your cable provider directly from the coax and completely bypassing the need for a cable set-top box using the El Gato hardware? Am I reading that correctly?

I was under the impression that even with the El Gato unit, if you wanted to get HD content onto your Mac from say Comcast, you'd have to grab the content from Comcast's Motorola HD DVR via the Firewire port and from their to the El Gato or the Mac directly. But if I am reading your post correctly, it sounds like you are asserting that you can simply call up Comcast, sign up for broadband cable modem service, and extract HDTV content "fo free" straight off the external coax plug on the back of the cable modem just as cable modem subscribers get the free analog "ghetto" cable (broadcast channels+community access+40 Spanish language channels that nobody wants) package?

If so, I'm buying a Mini and an El Gato and giving Comcast "the bird".

 

[Lynxpro]

Where can I get Doctor Who? Shall I go on? Without cable and my Tivo, and try to depend solely on Broadcast TV and iTunes, I'll be missing out on some of my favorite shows.

Speaking of, you better have a WishList programmed on your TiVo already for the big 2 hour American (United States) premiere of *Doctor Who* on the SciFi Channel on Friday March 17th 2006 at 9pm!

I mention WishList because you obviously cannot set up a Season Pass for it yet since it won't hit TiVo's programming guide until probably tomorrow (Saturday).

If you know of any other *Doctor Who* fans that have cable and a TiVo, remind them to set the machines up to record because hopefully the TiVo aggregate data can complement the official Nielsen ratings. After the ratings fiasco that Fox caused in 1996 by pitting the *Doctor Who* television movie (backdoor pilot) up against NBA Basketball, MLB Baseball, and *Roseanne* during the most important May Sweeps week, I just don't trust the 6,000 Nielsen families to watch anything of quality that I watch. I want to do my best to make sure the good Doctor stays on American television/cable THIS TIME without having to wait another 9 years before another stab at it happens.

We also need to remind our fellow fans who watched the show last year when it was brand spanking new on the BBC in the UK courtesy of the Torrents to watch it on SciFi or at least buy an episode or two on iTunes if it makes its way there...otherwise, there's the DVD box set out in July but it will have an MSRP of $99 supposedly.

Damn bloody Nielsens...

 

[Lynxpro]

Well, Tivo is already a computer with a pretty decent OS.

Yeah, its called "Linux".

 

[Lynxpro]

Considering how few of the boxes that include Win Media have TV tuners (and can't record TV, I've seen WinMedia included on laptops) I'd tend to doubt that. Without hard numbers, we can only speculate. Anyone find stats on how widely the DVR features of WinMedia are used? Or even what percentage of WinMedia PC's ship with a tuner?
Except when the network starts the show early or runs it long. But Tivo has added an option to pad record times, right?

I'll say one thing about Windows Media Center, the GUI is sweet. Much better than the standard WindowsXP GUI...its as if someone at Microsoft was channeling the various design talents on the pay roll of Apple when they created it. And I say this as a hard core TiVo enthusiast. Graphically, it is superior. But for ease of use, as well as programming smarts, TiVo STILL has the edge on all the DVR software.

And yes, TiVo now has padding. I wish they had more user-friendly "negative padding" (as in I set the Season Passes on various shows like *Scrubs* to stop recording one or two minutes before the scheduled ending since its only commericals), but I'm sure the broadcasters said "no" to it.

The Xbox360 GUI is also nice. Although I don't own one.

 

[Lynxpro]

If Apple adds a PVR function it would be heavily DRM'd so there's always something to bitch about. Add a USB hard disk and Elgato© and you have a sub 1000$ PVR. H-D content is useless at the moment with no players/recorders so there is no market for it.

Crunching the HD content with MPEG4 would allow you to put the files onto a dual layer (at most) DVD-R. Its not like the eventual HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players are not going to play HD content if its only on a DVD-R disc... Thus your only concern right now has to be the fact that you couldn't just pop it into any average DVD player at the moment. It would be an interesting experiment to see if native HD content on such a disc would output to an HDTV courtesy of one of the current "upscaling" DVD players on the market that also play DIVX content.

 

[Multimedia]

EyeTV 500 Recieves From the Cable WALL and/or From An Antennae

Wait a sec there. Are you trying to tell me that you are "grabbing" HD content from your cable provider directly from the coax and completely bypassing the need for a cable set-top box using the El Gato hardware? Am I reading that correctly?

I was under the impression that even with the El Gato unit, if you wanted to get HD content onto your Mac from say Comcast, you'd have to grab the content from Comcast's Motorola HD DVR via the Firewire port and from their to the El Gato or the Mac directly. But if I am reading your post correctly, it sounds like you are asserting that you can simply call up Comcast, sign up for broadband cable modem service, and extract HDTV content "fo free" straight off the external coax plug on the back of the cable modem just as cable modem subscribers get the free analog "ghetto" cable (broadcast channels+community access+40 Spanish language channels that nobody wants) package?

If so, I'm buying a Mini and an El Gato and giving Comcast "the bird".

Yes. The digital signals are NORMALLY SO FAR passing into your home along with the base analog service. Do you need broadbnd service? What about lifeline analog for $12? Whatever you order, the digital signals are there with minimum analog service. You hook the CABLE not any firewire to EyeTV 500 box DIRECTLY FROM THE WALL. You hook an included FW400 cable from the EyeTV 500 Tuner to the Mac. You do NOT rent a tuner from the cable operator. You do not order digital service from the cable operator. You may split the cable from the wall so you can still feed an analog TV the cable signal. I do that from my off air antennae. But the postion of the antennae for digital reception is completely different than for the analog signals in my market.

This is based on information I have received from EyeTV personel about the system in San Francisco. Your cable system may differ. Some may block digital signals. But I don't know of any so far. The connection to EyeTV 500 is NOT from ANY FireWire Port on ANY tuner. It is ONLY from the wall direct. Where you got the idea that you hook from a tuner's firewire port I have no idea. EyeTV 500 NEVER received signals that way and NEVER WILL. 🙄 The cable operator is not going to tell you if they are blocking digital into homes or not. If not, which is usually if not universally the case, they will not want everyone to know that.

Make sure you buy the Core Duo mini and max out the RAM to 2 GB. I am using a Quad G5 and it is still too slow with 6 GB of ram.

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[gugy]

wow, the quad G5 with 6gig of RAM still slow. Crazy. That the same system I have.
The EyeTV seems to be a great deal. I am excite, specially with the Football world cup coming. It would be great to record the games in HDTV. Can't wait. I'll order the refurbish one now.🙂

 

[whenpaulsparks]

he said that the mac mini's new front row capability is not about competing with tivo. he didn't say they weren't going to compete with tivo with something else. some of you guys are so fairweather!

i'm imagining a new mac, a media center mac, NOT the mac mini (which the 1.66 core duo in the nicer mac mini can only BARELY do 1080 HD), that is larger, more feature packed, and is an actual media center box with a front display and everything, and presumably a larger, more-button remote. but really they just need to add a few buttons to the apple remote to enable recording and time shifting.

 

[w00master]

Has anyone said that people who use DVR's are idiots? My original post was in response to someone who said that anyone who buys shows from itunes is an idiot.



Absolutely not true. Here's an example, Media Center OS with no tuner:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7631501&type=product&id=1130986697065

That's EXTREMELY rare, and frankly anyone who's lead in buying this particular Media Center PC is definitely getting ripped off. On the whole, nearly ALL Media Center PCs have some kind of tuner. It is one of the biggest selling features of those PCs.

w00master