No Apple Digital Video Recorder (DVR) Planned?

[Multimedia]

EyeTV is TOTALLY Integrated With Front Row

I wonder if Elgato can integrate the EyeTV software with Frontrow. That'd do the job just fine, and leave the flexibility to get newer and better EyeTV tuners as standards change.

It is TOTALLY integrated with Front Row. Come on you guys. Do you know how EyeTV really works?

All you have to do is put your EyeTV mp4 exports into a playlist in iTunes and they will all appear in the "Movie" playlist of the Video Section of Front Row. I just confirmed this with my own Front Row. FR looks to iTunes for music and video, iPhoto for stills and the DVD drive for DVDs.

EyeTV2dvr Group
EyeTV2 Blog

HDTV Group
HDTV Blog

 

[gugy]

Thanks Multimedia,

So If I purchase an eyeTV 500 I'll be fine recording analog cable and if I purchase the antennae I could get as bonus HDTV over the air? That sounds like a great deal.

 

[savar]

Schiller claims that adding video recording to the Mac mini would make it "too complicated":

Steve Jobs said nobody wanted to watch video on tiny screens, but we got the Ipod with video a couple months later.

I don't see what's so complicated about it, all the mini is missing is a TV tuner or two and a frame grabber (which might actually be handled by the integrated graphics).

Given Apple's ability for writing awesome software, this seems like a no-brainer to me. Then again, I haven't used Tivo enough to know if it really is "untouchable" like everybody seems to think it is. I do know that my Sci-Atlanta Explorer 8000 is pretty lousy: bug prone, unresponsive, unreliable, etc. And its not very pretty either.

 

[Multimedia]

EXACTLY - Combine Cable and Off Air Into The EyeTV 500

Thanks Multimedia,

So If I purchase an eyeTV 500 I'll be fine recording analog cable and if I purchase the antennae I could get as bonus HDTV over the air? That sounds like a great deal.

No. EyeTV 500 is only for digital cable and off air. Not analog cable. But digital signals are in your analog cable without you paying extra for it.

I don't subscribe to cable. But if I did, I would COMBINE WITH A SPLITTER the cable from the wall and the antennae cable into the EyeTV 500 and have both signals sensed by the auto tuner for a mix of both sources combined in my EyeTV channel panel. 😉

Plus the EyeTV 500 is on sale refurbished for only $199 on the ElGato site.

 

[Multimedia]

Writing to Mac mini HD Would Be Wrong

Quote: Originally Posted by Macrumors
Schiller claims that adding video recording to the Mac mini would make it "too complicated":

Steve Jobs said nobody wanted to watch video on tiny screens, but we got the Ipod with video a couple months later.

I don't see what's so complicated about it, all the mini is missing is a TV tuner or two and a frame grabber (which might actually be handled by the integrated graphics).

Given Apple's ability for writing awesome software, this seems like a no-brainer to me. Then again, I haven't used Tivo enough to know if it really is "untouchable" like everybody seems to think it is. I do know that my Sci-Atlanta Explorer 8000 is pretty lousy: bug prone, unresponsive, unreliable, etc. And its not very pretty either.

Well Phil is half right. You wouldn't want to be writing to the tiny Mac mini's undersized HD stressing out the system volume's armature and discs (the only moving parts left inside our computers) 24/7.

You need a large external 3.5" FW HD to write to hooked to the FW port. Hook the EyeTV 500 to the HD. Set EyeTV2 preferences to write to the external drive all the time. You would also want 2 GB of RAM in the mini so you can assign 1 GB of ram for live storage to be able to run the instant replay up to 10 minutes back. EyeTV records HDTV at the rate of 100-120 MB a minute. An hour native 1920 x 1080p CBS & NBC recording is 7.4 GB large. 1280 x 720 Fox & ABC are smaller.

You can make a 300 GB external for $100-$115 after rebates if you know how to SHOP SMART. So your total investment to have a Tivo Killer on your Mac is only a $349 add on. $199 EyeTV 500, $100 FW 300 GB do-it-yourself HD, $50 Terk TV5 antennae. You can hide the HD and the Tuner on the floor. You may have to expose the antennae to get good reception. I have to move my antennae to completely different places for different off air channel reception. Depends on your location if you would need to do this or not.

EyeTV2dvr Group
EyeTV2 Blog

HDTV Group
HDTV Blog

 

[Chundles]

Doesn't really bother me. I'd rather the computer stay a computer and the TV stay a TV. I don't really want convergence, I just want really good stuff. It would most likely be too expensive and/or not work properly down here anyway.

Apple could never make a TiVo killer for Australia.Cause we don't have TiVo and we couldn't care less.

This bitter and grumpy message is brought to you by Chundles, his sore back, empty wallet, the number 2 and the letter N.

 

[macnews]

I can't believe I just read through five pages of this. I was actually hoping this would end this silly debate.

EyeTV, El Gato, there's what you need.

I'd rather have Apple focus on building things that fit their business model than waste it on DVR.

I'm mean, it doesn't take common sense to realize they will loose money on a DVR release.....

Can someone please explain to me how EyeTV and El Gato compare to TiVo? First, I haven't used either but from my understanding:

TiVo is like a vcr with a hard drive. You are watching your tv and record it to a hard drive. Than you pay TiVo a monthly fee to be able to access a TV guide type of feature to record shows - yes?

EyeTV/El Gato allows you to record TV shows to your computer, but you can not watch them on your TV at the same time?

I have tried to get answers but get mixed messages...maybe this time I will have better luck?!?

Either way, I would much rather a mac mini or apple product done all in one.

 

[HiRez]

TiVo is great, but a TiVo plus this beats rainbows and puppy dogs. Mac version coming soon!

 

[gnasher729]

Another way to read that as a fully truthful statement would be, we're not going to compete with TiVo 'cause we're going to partner with them or even buy them out at a bargain basement price and use Front Row 2.0 as a front end for TiVo to Go. 😛

B

I read it as: "The Intel Mac Mini that we are shipping right now is not intended to be a Tivo replacement". This says nothing about future plans at all.

And Apple has been known to change its mind anyway. Maybe with todays technology they cannot ship a Mac Mini that would work as a PVR as well as Apple (or Steve Jobs) wants. In six months that might change.

 

[Di9it8]

Freescale

Yeah, I never thought apple would switch to intel either.🙄

I dont think Freescale thought they would either😀

 

[dcranston]

Have some foresight!

Doesn't anybody understand this? Let's think about content and how it works:

Television is on a schedule. Why? Because that's how live broadcast works! What does a DVR do? It records live content for later viewing. Doesn't anyone realise that a DVR is a *temporary* solution to a bigger issue? The issue is that people don't want to be tied to a specific time to watch a TV show (everyone's schedules are different). But a DVR just deals with the present issue, that we don't want to be tied to a schedule, but the TV stations provide us with a schedule.

But imagine a world where you simply grab each tv show as you need it. *that* is really what we're ultimately saying we want. And that's what the iTunes Music Store TV Shows is beginning to reveal. Give it 5 years, and noboy will want a TiVO, because you'll just get the shows you want, when you want them , always, no forethought, no monthly subscription fee to channels you don't need, etc. That's honestly what we want; I don't understand why everyone's so darned obsessed with a DVR?? Don't people understand it will be obsolete in a couple years?

There are DVR solutions already. If you require one today, use that. EyeTV has one which integrates into iTunes. Fantastic. TiVO/Replay TV have some that work well on their own and you can *easily* have a receiver that switches between the two inputs into your TV. In fact, you can buy a remote-controlled switch form < $50. That will fill your time until we can download all the shows we want, whenever we want.

Yes! The bigger picture! That's what Apple's all about!

Remember what Steve Jobs said, "You can't just ask customers what they want and then try to give that to them. By the time you get it built, they'll want something new."

 

[kugino]

Can someone please explain to me how EyeTV and El Gato compare to TiVo? First, I haven't used either but from my understanding:

TiVo is like a vcr with a hard drive. You are watching your tv and record it to a hard drive. Than you pay TiVo a monthly fee to be able to access a TV guide type of feature to record shows - yes?

EyeTV/El Gato allows you to record TV shows to your computer, but you can not watch them on your TV at the same time?

I have tried to get answers but get mixed messages...maybe this time I will have better luck?!?

Either way, I would much rather a mac mini or apple product done all in one.

don't have tivo so i can't comment on the tivo-eyetv comparison.

if your tv is your computer/monitor or if you've connected your computer to your tv (preferably LCD/plasma, but analog works as well), you can watch shows while recording using eyetv...it's just like tivo or a vcr in that sense. it has a built-in tuner so you can change channels via the eyetv. works pretty well and setting schedules to record shows is very easy.

 

[ScottB]

I would like to have seen DVR in the mac mini, but I guess its a computer first and foremost. But apple does seem to be going in this direction so you never know, there might be a DVR-like system heading our way in the form of iTunes... or not.

 

[gnasher729]

Look apple obviously isn't going to put DVR functions in the mini. I have yet to read the obvious answer anywhere. They don't want you to record stuff from tv, that would defeat the whole purpose of itunes store. They want you to buy it from them. Why would they make a product that makes the itunes store obselete? Duh! People need to look at the whole picture. They still want you to be dependant on them.

That is exactly the attitude that is killing Sony at the moment. For many years, Sony engineers have not been allowed to make products that people want, because their music and video business didn't allow it. They are an excellent example how not to run a business, and I think Apple will be clever enough not to fall into the same trap.

 

[gnasher729]

Who needs an Apple DVR? The Elgato systems are awesome and there are several plugins available for EyeTV. I'm currently streaming a recording made on my iMac earlier (using the Elgato EyeTV 410) over Airport to my PowerBook 🙂

If you think that streaming a recording made on an iMac to a PowerBook is worth mentioning, then the technology isn't good enough yet. When you sit in your living room watching TV, and suddenly you decide that the weather outside is really nice and you take your PowerBook outside to watch the rest of the show, without ever thinking about the technology involved, _then_ the technology will be good enough.

 

[geo10]

PVR or iTunes

I would just OS X if there was a PVR funtion builtin. Today I use WME for the PVR and XBOX fuctions.

 

[Zatko]

DVR fits Apple's business model

I do not understand why people feel that Apple has no intention to release DVR functionality in a mini because it doesn't fit their business model. They feel that a DVR would undercut their iTunes store's sales of tv shows.

The purpose of the iTunes store is to sell hardware... iPods. Apple has stated it doesn't make a whole ton of profit off its content distrobution. Now, a DVR in a mini would give you a huge option for buying that new video ipod and filling it with content. Not to mention but you're also buying their super big ipod... the mac mini.

Now, Joe Windows Schmoe has his mini dvr in his living room and picked up a new video ipod to take his recordings with him. He decidely figures out he really likes osx after playing with his mini for a few weeks and when his wife needs a new desktop computer, before he'd just buy a Dell but now he's thinking of maybe getting a new iMac.

That was verbose, but the point is, Apple's business model isn't about getting rich sellng 2 dollar tv shows. A mini dvr is makes so much sense they must be working on it. My bet is that they are really spending their time to get the whole system right.

If they aren't working on a DVR, I find it really hard to explain the logic around that besides Apple just being complacent about competitors snatching dollars that could be theirs.

 

[bellis1]

TiVo Partnership

Imagine:

You open iTunes and on the left side you have the icons for Library, Podcasts, Videos, and now TiVo. You simply click on the TiVo icon and click on what you had programmed/recorded earlier from your tivo. If you want to keep it, drag it to your library. If you want to delete it, delete it. If you want to put it on your iPod drag it over and it compresses it for you. Oh how sweet it would be.

Whatever came of that partnership between tivo and Apple?

http://news.com.com/TiVo-recorded+shows+soon+viewable+on+iPod,+PSP/2100-1041_3-5963902.html?tag=nl

I can't see why this wouldn't work. Who needs a DVR killer if your Mac mini could stream from your TiVO and share between all of the computers in your house in real-time. And of course be able to transfer to your iPod for on the go. I'm sure they could make it beautiful and "not too complicated" for us simple Apple users.

edit: I missed the slingbox for mac in 2nd quarter 2006. That would also be nice:

http://www.slingmedia.com/press/pressreleases-01.10.06.php

 

[kirk26]

The only reason this is negative is because your people believe the rumors and you expect the rumors to be true. You then get mad at Apple because they didn't fullfil the rumors. Pathetic people.

 

[~Shard~]

In a way, this doesn't come as a surprise. Apple probably wouldn't release a "Tivo killer", or at least explicity market a device in that manner. Apple always does things different, so I think they'll probably continue to improve and enhance Front Row, and go about things their own way. Then, before you know it, Apple won't have a "Tivo kiler" per se, but a cool, unqiue alternative, which people may find more attractive than Tivo.

For me it's kind of like the whole multi-button mouse issue. Apple basically said they were never going to make one, and they didn't - but the Mighty Mouse, for all intents and purposes, is a multi-button mouse - just with a twist and using a different concept. 😎

 

[BenRoethig]

Well DUH. Of course Apple wouldn't cripple their iTMS by making a computer that records TV ... anyone who thought different doesn't know Apple. Apple thinks people would rather download a show than watch it on a schedule on TV.

They'll cripple their computer instead sales by forcing users to buy Windows MCE machines, much smarter.

 

[Wigletbill]

Just as they come out of the best year in the company's history. Yeah, they'll be out of business next week.

Never said they would be out of business. And I recognize last year was their best year ever. Last year was a culmination of all of the successes of the past five years. What was innovating last year? Let me know.

J

 

[Lord Bodak]

It is TOTALLY integrated with Front Row. Come on you guys. Do you know how EyeTV really works?

All you have to do is put your EyeTV mp4 exports into a playlist in iTunes and they will all appear in the "Movie" playlist of the Video Section of Front Row. I just confirmed this with my own Front Row. FR looks to iTunes for music and video, iPhoto for stills and the DVD drive for DVDs.

If I have to export to mp4 from EyeTV, then it's not integrated. I want Frontrow to let me look at my EyeTV library and select recordings to watch. Hopefully Apple has built a piece of software that is extensible enough to allow El Gato to write a plugin or something to do that.

 

[ipodG8TR]

What the F*#k

Who are the idiots buying TV shows for $1.99 from the ITMS? Don't you already have a Tivo? If not, it's time to get one. Sure I've purchased over 300 singles from the store, but never an album. It's just not worth it when I can get a physical CD for about the same price at Best Buy, Circuit City, WalMart or half a dozen other stores within 5 miles. Same goes for videos and TV shows. I'd buy videos IF Apple sold the uncut versions and IF every single was .99, every video was $1.99 and you could purchase both together or upgrade later for $2.49 or the difference in cost. There are better solutions for getting your content to your ipod video. Try Handbrake or Mac the Ripper unless you like overpaying for sub-par video without all the extras that come on DVD.

As for TV shows, I believe they should be cheaper or free. How much do you already pay for cable or Direct TV? I don't know about you, but I don't have hundreds of extra dollars that I'm willing to spend on something that I'm already paying for.

I think that television and movie studios would be better served by offering all versions on one DVD. So instead of buying the same thing in multiple formats for your DVD player, PSP, ipod, etc you buy it once and can play it back on any device you wish. It keeps it simple and the consumer isn't getting screwed.

 

[milo]

Why on Earth is Apple allowing Microsoft to kick its butt in the Media Center race?

How many media center boxes is MS selling? I mean, how many with tuners that people are actually using for DVR? Not just boxes with media center thrown on for free that nobody actually uses or hooks up to a TV.

I'd love to see hard numbers on market penetration of DVR's running MS software. I bet they don't exist because the market is pretty much negligible.

Before iTunes and iPod, apple let the mp3 hardware and software companies "kick its butt". How did that turn out again?

If you have no iApps installed, it cannot run.

The only iApp that isn't free is iPhoto. And that IS included when you buy the latest machines that include Front Row. iTunes, quicktime and DVD player are all included with the OS.


I don't get why people who want DVR just don't buy an eyeTV? The solution is there, it's just offered by a third party. Complaining that apple doesn't include a DVR is like complaining that they don't sell a computer that can print, because the mini doesn't have a built in printer.

OK, let me say this one more time, it will not be a Mac Mini. If Apple releases a DVR it will be a new product.

One more time? You should have said that the first time.

Who are the idiots buying TV shows for $1.99 from the ITMS? Don't you already have a Tivo?

As for TV shows, I believe they should be cheaper or free. How much do you already pay for cable or Direct TV?

TIVO? Of course not. Pay a monthly fee just to be able to tape shows? That's idiotic to me. And I don't pay for cable either, it's an even bigger ripoff. Let's see, I can pay for cable PLUS tivo every month, or I can just watch Weeds for two bucks an episode. Who's the idiot again? If you watch tons of cable, it may be worth it. But if you don't watch much, it can be WAY cheaper to just buy the episodes.

You must really hate the "idiots" who buy TV shows on DVD (currently the biggest selling DVD content).