no Ethernet in 2012 MBP? bad move

[theSeb]

That's not strictly true. While they CAN be as secure, in the real world many are not. And not because WiFi encryption is easily hackable, because it is not. But because they are more vulnerable to social engineering types of attack. Where an employee is tricked into revealing an access key or similar, the hacker need not be physically connected to the network to take advantage of this. Clearly this is inherently less secure, where the attacker does not have to be within traditional corporate boundaries. It's relatively easy to work around this with 2 factor authentication, etc, but many corporate WiFi networks still don't have these controls.

A well set up and managed enterprise wifi network does not require a user to type in an access key or anything, ever, therefore there are no social engineering attacks that can take place. The set up is part of the machine build.

----------

You're missing the point of my post. I'm not talking about individual employees buying laptops. Why would they do so? I'm talking about mass deployment across an an enterprise as a life-cycle upgrade.

Apple have shown no interest in going after the enterprise market with their computers. In fact, looking at what they've done to "Server" in Lion, it's pretty clear they are becoming even less and less interested in this market.

 

[PracticalMac]

Excuse me whilst I laugh, Mr Hacker. Hahahahhahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahaha.

*facepalm*

Those who break into systems are called "Crackers".
People who don't know use Hacker for everyone.

What? Why would you be spending ANOTHER thousand++?
....
Exercise your right as a consumer and buy the laptop that meets your needs.

You used the word "another", common usage to indicate "in addition too"
You should have used word "different".


Fail

 

[Revelation78]

That's not strictly true. While they CAN be as secure, in the real world many are not. And not because WiFi encryption is easily hackable, because it is not. But because they are more vulnerable to social engineering types of attack. Where an employee is tricked into revealing an access key or similar, the hacker need not be physically connected to the network to take advantage of this. Clearly this is inherently less secure, where the attacker does not have to be within traditional corporate boundaries. It's relatively easy to work around this with 2 factor authentication, etc, but many corporate WiFi networks still don't have these controls.

Do you have any idea what you just spewed? ANY network is in peril to social engineering attacks - do you even know what that means? While networks in the real world are secure, we're not talking about Joe's Deli or your home network here, there are many ways a wireless network can be secured. IF the IT staff are worth 1/4 their weight, they will have it buttoned up.

The only thing WE worry about is idiot users. That is something we can't completely plan for, but we can mitigate against - greatly.

Based on your post you have no idea what goes into securing a wireless network, a real-world corporate or governmental network...

 

[theSeb]

Those who break into systems are called "Crackers".
People who don't know use Hacker for everyone.



You used the word "another", common usage to indicate "in addition too"
You should have used word "different".


Fail

Definition of another:

1. One more; an additional: had another cup of coffee.
2. Distinctly different from the first: took another route to town.
3. Some other: put it off to another day.

pron.

1. An additional one: one encore followed by another.
2. A different one: This shirt is too big; I'll try another.
3. One of an undetermined number or group: for one reason or another.

Yes, I "fail". Thanks for the lesson. I guess the old adage is true, "Those who can't, teach".

 

[PracticalMac]

Please quote evidence to backup this statement. Make sure the attack vector is via a properly configured corporate WiFi.

You pointed out the issue.
properly configured

What I said "bit of luck".

I presume you're thinking about the Ethernet cord that has a locking tab that will bring the laptop with it no matter how hard you yank At least with the TB adapter you can hope the adapter will come out of the non locking TB port and not end up with your laptop on the floor!

I find the e-port more robust to damage then things like old style power plugs (saw 2 laptops with broken power connectors stuck in the socket). Seen a few bent USB ports too, just one what was completely broken.

TB port is barely a 1/4" deep, has a hard shell body almost an inch long, and the port has a lot to very tiny pins. I doubt it is very robust.

Perhaps you can test it out for us!

 

[dawiyo]

Apple have shown no interest in going after the enterprise market with their computers. In fact, looking at what they've done to "Server" in Lion, it's pretty clear they are becoming even less and less interested in this market.

Sad, but true.

I wish they would do more for enterprise customers. Profit from orders of 5,000 computers at a time rather than relying on one at a time customers (99% of consumers) would allow for more R&D, which in turn would trickle new features back down to consumers on the next release of hardware.

 

[mpkayeuk]

The only thing WE worry about is idiot users. That is something we can't completely plan for, but we can mitigate against - greatly.

Yes, idiot users who are vulnerable to social engineering attacks - exactly my point. If you actually bothered to read my post you would have understood that I agree WiFi networks CAN be as secure as physical networks. It's just that often, they are not.

I am an IT contractor and have worked for many very large corporations over the last 15 years. I have seen WiFi done well (in the way you describe) and I have seen it done badly. I have recently worked at a very, very, very large corporate where access to the WiFi network was still done by exchanging (on slips of paper often) a WiFi access key. This is a very real world example of what happens. I'm not talking here-say, I'm talking FACT. This kind of setup is de-facto less secure than a physical network. Also FACT.

Fundamentally I think we agree, but you have a distorted view of what happens in reality at some surprisingly large companies.

----------

A well set up and managed enterprise wifi network does not require a user to type in an access key or anything, ever, therefore there are no social engineering attacks that can take place. The set up is part of the machine build.

I agree with you. Sadly, I have been to places where enterprise WiFi is not set up well.

 

[dawiyo]

I have recently worked at a very, very, very large corporate where access to the WiFi network was still done by exchanging (on slips of paper often) a WiFi access key. This is a very real world example of what happens.

That made me cringe All my Security+ training is flooding back

 

[Doc69]

I personally don't mind that there is no Ethernet port on the new retina MBP. I can use a Thunderbolt adapter, no problem.

However, what I don't like, is that I would have to sacrifice one Thunderbolt port just for Ethernet. We really need a small and relatively cheap ($99) Thunderbolt breakout box with Ethernet, FW800 and possibly eSATA connectors. And preferably with a short 6" or so Thunderbolt cable built in.

 

[theSeb]

Sad, but true.

I wish they would do more for enterprise customers. Profit from orders of 5,000 computers at a time rather than relying on one at a time customers (99% of consumers) would allow for more R&D, which in turn would trickle new features back down to consumers.

Now is a good time as any. With most people in the enterprise tech news expressing disappointment and bewilderment at what Windows 8 and latest server will bring to the desktop (metro), there is a consensus that if Apple had the balls and desire, then they would go after this opportunity more aggressively.

Microsoft is so hell bent on rushing after consumers, since they feel they've lost them to iOS and Android, that they're basically willing to give up an entire corporate refresh cycle. Since windows 8 is so completely different, the costs of training and upgrading to Windows 8 will make it prohibitive for businesses, since most are only just starting to upgrade to Windows 7 or have recently done so.

 

[PracticalMac]

Definition of another:

(adjective)
1. One more; an additional: had another cup of coffee.
2. Distinctly different from the first: took another route to town.
3. Some other: put it off to another day.

pronoun.

1. An additional one: one encore followed by another.
2. A different one: This shirt is too big; I'll try another.
3. One of an undetermined number or group: for one reason or another.

Pronouns (the latter set) are defined:

A pronoun is often defined as a word which can be used instead of a noun.

Going to your original quote:

Get another computer.

You included the noun "computer", thus the word "another" is used as an adjective, and your kindly supplied definition is "1. One more; an additional: had another cup of coffee."

Because "another" is used as a adjective, the pronoun definition does not apply, thus the sentence means "in addition to"

This time I WIN, in spades.

Yes, I "fail". Thanks for the lesson. I guess the old adage is true, "Those who can't, teach".

I completely concur.

 

[Revelation78]

Yes, idiot users who are vulnerable to social engineering attacks - exactly my point. If you actually bothered to read my post you would have understood that I agree WiFi networks CAN be as secure as physical networks. It's just that often, they are not.

I am an IT contractor and have worked for many very large corporations over the last 15 years. I have seen WiFi done well (in the way you describe) and I have seen it done badly. I have recently worked at a very, very, very large corporate where access to the WiFi network was still done by exchanging (on slips of paper often) a WiFi access key. This is a very real world example of what happens. I'm not talking here-say, I'm talking FACT. This kind of setup is de-facto less secure than a physical network. Also FACT.

Fundamentally I think we agree, but you have a distorted view of what happens in reality at some surprisingly large companies.

----------



I agree with you. Sadly, I have been to places where enterprise WiFi is not set up well.

I did read your post, maybe I surmised a different conclusion from it than you were trying to portray. Even though users are often times idiots, we still take measure to safeguard against their stupidity.

We do seem to be on the same page though.

 

[PracticalMac]

I have recently worked at a very, very, very large corporate where access to the WiFi network was still done by exchanging (on slips of paper often) a WiFi access key. This is a very real world example of what happens. I'm not talking here-say, I'm talking FACT. This kind of setup is de-facto less secure than a physical network. Also FACT.

Fundamentally I think we agree, but you have a distorted view of what happens in reality at some surprisingly large companies.

----------


I agree with you. Sadly, I have been to places where enterprise WiFi is not set up well.

Thank you for supporting evidence.

I have only worked on lesser, smaller network for a short while, but still experienced poor network access control, despite sensitive files.


BTW, did the people have to eat the paper note after the used the PW?

 

[Auzburner]

I can live without gigabit MOST of the time. That is why I bought the Retina Pro. I have a 2010 17" MacBook Pro, and I find I use the physical connection about once a month when I'm doing something intensive.

Otherwise, in order to access certain firewalls, I must be using my physical network connection. This is a necessity and times, and that is why I also purchased the thunderbolt to ethernet adapter...

But I like that Apple trims the unnecessary, but that's me. This new MacBook fits my "wants" just perfectly.

 

[dawiyo]

BTW, did the people have to eat the paper note after the used the PW?

We should give out all written passwords on Listerine strips.

 

[Queen6]

Apple has always been the first to discontinue what they consider to be redundant technologies, the omission of the ethernet port is just part of the evolution. As has been stated and reiterated numerous time for those that have the requirement a dongle is an option. Very few industries now solely use the hardline for networking and those that do you wont be walking in with your own personal computer as you wont be granted access period.

For those that dont like the direction Apple it taking the MBP, the options are simple, buy the legacy MBP while it`s still available, look at another system in the Apple line up, or vote with your $$$ and shop elsewhere. Be assured Apple dont give a jot, they design what they believe is the very best and put it to market, if it sells it will be retained and refined, if it doesn't it will simply be dropped. Complain all you want, however the ethernet port wont be returning to the MBP, and judging by the sales response Apple got it right again, well at least for the followers longterm sales may slow as pricing is what it is, then again i am 100% Tim cook & Jony Ive have a far better clue than I

Personally i am on the fence, i may well wait for Haswell, I already have a Late 2011 high end 15" MBP which serves me well enough, as the 2013 MBP, will be a far bigger jump in performance vs the 2012`s. Buying now, well that would just be for the hell of it, and just to have the latest model. Admittedly it would allow me to fully retire my Early 2008 15" MBP which is really now starting to struggle and my daughter has pretty much "tagged" it, equally Haswell looms

 

[pragmatous]

You have no idea what I just said. You must be thinking of small companies with 30 people. I work for a company that has 55 thousand plus users.

LOL, this is amusing. I have worked for corporates all my working life. I have no idea what a corporate application system is. That's gobbledegook at its best.

Many progressive corporates are actually starting to class a laptop as a tool of the job. They are making their business apps web based or thin client. And they expect their employees to purchase and maintain their own laptop as tools of their particular trade. Security is maintained at the datacenter boundary, call it a private cloud if you like. Local offices are a security free for all, providing high speed internet access and access to the private cloud by VPN and other secure methods.

This is not the future, it's the present, and Apple has seen it.

The old days of managed client builds on laptops and dedicated corporate LAN/WAN infrastructure are over. It's too expensive and completely unnecessary in today's application environment.

I know Shell are doing this, BHP Billiton and EMC. These are very large global organisations.

 

[Stetrain]

I really don't get the point of this thread.

A) If you absolutely need Ethernet built in with no adapters, get a non-retina model or a PC laptop.

B) If you use Ethernet occasionally, get the $29 gigabit adapter. Unlike the old USB adapter, there's really not much compromise with this adapter. Thunderbolt peripherals basically hook straight in to the PCI-E bus, so it's really no different performance wise than being built in.

I always keep my own Ethernet cable in the case with my field programming laptop, so it would just be a matter of snapping the adapter onto one end of your cable and leaving it there.

If you only use Ethernet at your desk, you could also get one of the various Thunderbolt docks that are going on sale soon, which provides other ports than just Ethernet.

What exactly is there to complain about?

I work on lots of equipment that uses RS232 serial programming cables. I don't moan about and lament the fact that they no longer build laptops with serial ports on the side. When I need to hook up to a serial device, I use a USB adapter. I do this several times a week and it causes me no harm.

 

[leenak]

You have no idea what I just said. You must be thinking of small companies with 30 people. I work for a company that has 55 thousand plus users.

I work for a company twice that size and there is no application you can't access via WiFi that you can access via Ethernet. Now your company may have set it up so they put WiFi users in a DMZ of sorts where they can't access certain systems but that is company specific and how your particular company handles wifi. Companies that care about security and use WiFi generally encrypt wifi traffic and enable two-factor authentication or similar for WiFi.

 

[PracticalMac]

Apple has always been the first to discontinue what they consider to be redundant technologies,

Usually that happens because a better replacement is rapidly entering the mainstream.

Doing is prematurely does hurt sales to those who require it.
Recent example was the 13" Unibody MacBook Pro. It did not have FireWire. Less then year later it was dropped for a 13" MBP that DID have FW800, and the Unibody became the 13" MacBook.


What DOES work is loss of optic drive.

 

[pragmatous]

To some extent but the backbone of the infrastructure is Ethernet. I've never worked for any company small and large that didn't have an Ethernet backbone.

My point is Ethernet is not going anywhere and it's illogical for Apple to get rid of Ethernet. A standard that is the backbone of this world economy. Which they have not as they have released an adapter.

Wifi can never replace Ethernet. Ethernet can be replaced with some other cabling standard however. Cables will be around forever.

That is all I'm saying.

I work for a company twice that size and there is no application you can't access via WiFi that you can access via Ethernet. Now your company may have set it up so they put WiFi users in a DMZ of sorts where they can't access certain systems but that is company specific and how your particular company handles wifi. Companies that care about security and use WiFi generally encrypt wifi traffic and enable two-factor authentication or similar for WiFi.

 

[MisterSensitive]

Adapters are inelegant and prone to loss/failure.

Seems to me Apple has finally admitted it is unsuited for the enterprise and is solely consumer driven. Not to disparage, just sayin'

 

[leenak]

To some extent but the backbone of the infrastructure is Ethernet. I've never worked for any company small and large that didn't have an Ethernet backbone.

My point is Ethernet is not going anywhere and it's illogical for Apple to get rid of Ethernet. A standard that is the backbone of this world economy. Which they have not as they have released an adapter.

Wifi can never replace Ethernet. Ethernet can be replaced with some other cabling standard however. Cables will be around forever.

That is all I'm saying.

Well technically, the backbone probably isn't ethernet Ethernet dominates the LAN infrastructure though but WiFi has a pretty big presence in many corporations. Just because ethernet isn't going away doesn't mean that many users wouldn't be using WiFi. On my personal computer that is 3 years old, I've never used the ethernet port. At work, I have a docking station for my work laptop (non Apple).

 

[jclardy]

Too many businesses insist on Ethernet for security reasons.
WiFi still far slower then Gigabit Ethernet.

MBA is fine because it is designed for size (not meant for significant projects), but on a Pro machine?

EDIT:
Forcing one to get (buy) a dongle to use a industry wide standard and expected connection on a business/pro level machine is bad practice.
This is not about pushing advanced technology, its about supporting technology that is still top of line and ubiquitous.

Dongles are also bad practice in industry, used only for very specific, limited reasons. They can get damaged, lost, stolen. Worse is damage to the Thunderbolt port itself. Remember why Apple went with MagSafe power connection?

If someone trips over your Ethernet cable in a dedicated port your laptop is gonna hit the dirt. The thunderbolt dongle will likely get pulled out as it doesn't lock like Ethernet...

So replace a $29 dongle or a $2200 notebook....

I can understand it getting lost...but damaged or stolen? I think a thief would steal the computer before a dongle. Unless you are talking about employee theft.

 

[bioyuki]

Adapters are inelegant and prone to loss/failure.

Seems to me Apple has finally admitted it is unsuited for the enterprise and is solely consumer driven. Not to disparage, just sayin'

Plenty of enterprises use wifi...

----------

Too many businesses insist on Ethernet for security reasons.

It's unfortunate that there's no longer an Ethernet port, but I'll take that in a heartbeat to get a thinner/smaller laptop. I honestly can't think of the last time I've used a physical Ethernet cable.

With regards to the 'Wi-Fi = not secure enough for a corporate environment' statement that many are voicing in this tread, while I am by no means a network engineer, pretty much every company I've worked for, the vast, vast majority of users connect via wifi, not Ethernet. If large tech companies like Google, Apple, Facebook, etc. with tens of thousands of seats deem it acceptable that their corporate networks can be accessed via wifi, I don't see how the above statement can be valid.