Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

No FireWire in MacBooks

What a giant f*ck-up to drop firewire on the Macbooks.

Anyone looking for a 13" DAW is screwed and now delegated to the plastic Macbook.

Every decent external sound card on the market is firewire.

Musicians are going to be pissed.

The upside however, if you can call it an upside is this:

No musician would go for the 2.0ghz entry level aluminum Macbook. They'd move up to the 2.4ghz. Apple really should have included firewire on the top Macbook. However, the new top Macbook is what, 1599? for $400 more on the Macbook Pro you get your $2 firewire port and some other goodies.

A forced upgrade for musicians basically, and not welcome not only due to the cost, but for not being able to have a 13" Mac to gig with, to produce music on as a portable studio, or to record on.

I suspect many people like myself with be looking for last gen Macbook Pros since they should likely drop in cost to something around or less than the current top Macbook.
 
As someone into amateur video production I was really interested in the new entry level macbook with an upgraded RAM but without a firewire port for most amateur video producers and as others have mentioned musicians its impossible to connect out periperals. I can guarantee people that most family camcorders/ semi-pro cams use firewire to transfer footage, and using USB drastically reduces the quality to that of video shot with a still camera. Basically we are now forced to go for a macbook pro. As a uni student a 13 inch macbook would be perfect to take to class and do some light video editing but the 15 inch pro is a bit on the large side.
 
By removing fw & not putting esata to mac book, using external hdd's is much slower.
Copying 1TB with usb takes over 12 hours, whereas with esata it would be something like 4 hours...
 
When Apple eliminated the floppy, at least we knew that USB could be used for external floppy drives. With FireWire, I don't see a solid alternative in the making. And even when a manufacturer does make an adapter to USB that will work on the Mac, it will be bound by compatibility issues. Also, would it be able to handle the video in full resolution DV stream and in realtime? Will we be able to put video back on tape after the edit?

If Apple actually made a converter, there would not been such a huge outcry, even if they charged $100 for it. But now, we know that in the future, FireWire will be gone from Apple's consumer offerings. We can expect to see FireWire removed from the Mac mini.

What I hate about Apple's decision is not the way they try to think their way forward. I love Apple for doing that. I hate them for making good quality electronics, even recent and new ones obsolete. Those nice Canon and Sony camera's suddenly need to be replaced knowing that FireWire will be gone soon. Or we need to invest in more expensive Apple stuff. FireWire based HDs need to be replaced. In this time, electronics don't have a long life, even when they function perfectly.

What's wrong with your current Mac, some may ask? Well, some are getting old, and need to be replaced soon, maybe within a year. Well, you can always get a white MacBook if you do need FireWire, some say. But for how long? Also, say you don't have a FireWire camera and you buy a new Macbook, you can't loan a FireWire based camcorder, which are the most common in schools and universities.

Also, some people seem to suggest that if you're using a FireWire based camera with Final Cut (note that there is an Express version), you must be a professional or are loaded with cash. This is not the case. Not all can afford the Macbook Pro. Most people are just home enthusiasts. And they can only afford one computer replacement. And if they need a laptop, they need a laptop. For now, the white MacBook will do, but it's not really fair to get yesteryear's specs.

There's no real logical explanation for Apple to remove FireWire other than product differentiation. When the MacBook was plastic, there was still much difference between that and the Pro line. But going aluminum, the distinction is suddenly gone. So Apple removed FireWire to ensure that sales of the Pro line, and a more profitable line, won't go down.

While the decision is based on cannibalizing sales of the Pro line, I predict that FireWire will be removed from other Apple products. And while Apple will gain many more new-to-Mac customers, they will lose the respect of so many loyal Mac fans that have sticked by the company even through rough times. So do we want to be rewarded for being loyal? No, we just want Apple to be a solid home.

I also feel like we Mac people aren't united anymore. And when people do complain and say they might switch to the PC because they feel let down by Apple, the only words they'll often get on many boards is: well, goodbye, we won't miss you.

I'm not saying goodbye, yet, but I'm a little annoyed, because the future is uncertain, and the investment in my computer peripherals doesn't seem like an investment anymore. It's what happened with the iPod too when Apple removed FireWire based charging. Now, even Apple's own iPod Hi-Fi system won't charge the new iPods.
 
Long time reader, first time poster here

I say "long time" because that's when it seems I've been waiting for the updated laptops to drop....a LONG TIME. That's when it all started...

I do music production and recording with my imac, and have recently bought some turntables and am using the DJ software Torq, which is awesome.

My plan was to buy the high end macbook on the 14th and upgrade the ram after I got it...but the since the updates are more cosmetic, and didn't include firewire, I passed.

I was bummed because I also thought of getting a blackbook, but wanted LED backlight display and illuminated keys....ahhh, what to do?

So long story short:

I just bought a MacBook Pro 15-inch 2.5GHz Intel Core 2 Duo (previous generation) Brand new


2GB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM
250GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
LED backlight display
illuminated keyboard

Under the clearance section of the apple store. With education discount came out to $1599 plus tax.

1 firewire 400 port, and 1 firewire 800 port same price as the current high end macbook

Suck on that one apple!

After all, I'm glad I waited for this update...this laptop would've set me back $2500 two days ago. Free shipping too


So I suppose it pays to be patient...Apple really screwed the pooch on this update, but atleast I got a WAY better machine than I could've afforded last week.

I haven't seen the updated laptops in person yet, and don't really care to. The new looks don't really sit well with me. I just jumped on this and won't look back! Hope this helps anyone trying to make up their mind...
 
midiotlv said:
As a musician who takes recording/producing as a serious hobby, this is a horrible move!

My expensive audio interface is FW....and I'm not running a major studio. So basically, I have to jump up to the pro laptop (which costs pro $$) to do my basic multi-track work?

Sooooo disappointed. Finally have a mid-grade solution to run Logic on, but I can't hook-up my audio interface.

Bad Bad Bad

Who the hell made this decision at Apple? And --- way to piss off the faithful Apple audio hardware manufacturers (who just had their potential market share slashed).

At what point are we going to have to throw our hands up in disgust and go back to wintel (I was a recent convert).
Click to expand...

Why not just buy a refurbed MacBook Pro 2.5GZ for $1500 right now..
 
Let me start by saying it does suck there's no FW on the MB now. I do disagree with it, simply because there's no real benefit of leaving it off. It doesn't save a ton of space, and it hinders a lot of people, clearly.

There are ways of still doing good quality video and audio though. The HD series of hard disk Sony camcorders (one of which I own) are quite nice, IMO, and they will work fine with the MB's.

Likewise, there are a lot of good audio interfaces for musicians that work well over USB2, such as those from M-Audio, Edirol, and MOTU, like the 828MkII.

All really is not lost. At least not completely.

Again, it's still stupid that they made that decision, and I bet on the rev b they'll put it back, just as they did with the FW800 on the previous gen MBP.

It's a big bummer if you already own FW equipment too, such as those of you with the nice Canon prosumer stuff.

I just wanted to point that out, because some of you are using the word "impossible" when it's not exactly impossible, just difficult and/or expensive.

Personally, should I choose to go with the MB and not MBP, I'll be able to keep my HD hard disk Sony camera, as it merely shows up as an external disk with the full res files intact.

But my Presonus Firebox would be useless. Now, I was considering upgrading to an 8-input XLR-equipped box anyway, which for me would mean either the MOTU 828 or M-Audio FastTrack Ultra 8R. But that's besides the point. People should want to upgrade, not be forced to upgrade their equipment.
 
polaris20 said:
There are ways of still doing good quality video and audio though. The HD series of hard disk Sony camcorders (one of which I own) are quite nice, IMO, and they will work fine with the MB's.
Click to expand...

Your Hard Disk based Sony camcorder is NOT "quite nice".. nice for an amateur perhaps.. not for anyone else at production levels slightly above that. Trust me..

Most prosumer camcorders today still records to tape and dumps to computer via firewire.
 
bogman12 said:
Your Hard Disk based Sony camcorder is NOT "quite nice".. nice for an amateur perhaps.. not for anyone else at production levels slightly above that. Trust me..

Most prosumer camcorders today still records to tape and dumps to computer via firewire.
Click to expand...

Fully aware a lot use FW, like I said in my post. And I happen to be happy with my Sony FOR A CONSUMER CAMERA.

I'm not claiming it's pro level, never did. For home videos, it works fine for me. You saying it's not nice is fine, that's your opinion. Good for you.

Jesus, some of you people love to be rude and snotty on internet forums. Love to see how you relate to people in real life.

EDIT
Apparently I'm not the only one to like the Sony HD hard disk cams:

http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-camcorders/sony-handycam-hdr-sr12/4505-6500_7-32775806.html
http://www.retrevo.com/s/Sony-HDR-SR12-Camcorders-review-manual/id/12050ci364/t/1-2/
http://reviews.digitaltrends.com/review/5172/sony-hdr-sr12-review
http://www.pcworld.com/shopping/detail/prtprdid,62716384-sortby,retailer/pricing.html
 
FireWire or Bust

I do allot of work on computers as a hobby and for my career. It makes absolutely no sense to drop FW and removes so much.

When I moved from my Intel Core Duo MB to My 2.4 MBP, I just set the MB into target disk mode and connected them via FW and let them go. I do it all the time for data transfers when a client was upgrading to a new model mac from like, an iBook. I suppose that if they had a Time Machine backup (most likely, no), then it would be easy.

Before I got my MBP, I did allot of video editing on my MacBook in iMovie. I passed the Mac along to a friend that uses it for the exact same thing. Looking around, if I wanted to buy a new MB for video editing, I would have to buy a new camera and move away from the miniDV format that I have been using for years. So in addition to buying a new computer, I would have to buy a new camera, too. As it is, I would requite a FW hub that allows me to use my FW 4-pin to 6-pin cable with an 8-pin plug if I bought one of the new MBP or an express card to FW400 hub.

No matter how you slice it, the exclusion of FW will have a negative effect on users one way or another. I would like to know the secret reasoning for this removal. My guess is that it's to save power on the bus to keep the battery life estimates up closer to the 5 hour mark.
 
cruelmemory said:
No matter how you slice it, the exclusion of FW will have a negative effect on users one way or another. I would like to know the secret reasoning for this removal. My guess is that it's to save power on the bus to keep the battery life estimates up closer to the 5 hour mark.
Click to expand...

I agree. It is a bummer, and there's no real benefit to leaving it off, unless they intend upon artificially forcing people to the MBP. It is a bad move on Apple's part.
 
My camera is a consumer JVC camera, uses FW/miniDV, and I have quite a few tapes, and I daisy chain a few hard drives and use an external when editing in iMovie. So for a consumer like myself that uses iLife's iMovie, the consumer laptop that I can afford new doesn't work for me :(
 
b.read™ said:
Under the clearance section of the apple store. With education discount came out to $1599 plus tax.

1 firewire 400 port, and 1 firewire 800 port same price as the current high end macbook

Suck on that one apple!


So I suppose it pays to be patient...Apple really screwed the pooch on this update, but atleast I got a WAY better machine than I could've afforded last week.
Click to expand...

I think you should read what you write before posting. You say, "Suck on that one Apple". Regardless if Apple didn't sell you their latest and greatest, they still got money out of you AND you helped them by clearing out their old model. I say the jokes on you.
 
bogman12 said:
Your Hard Disk based Sony camcorder is NOT "quite nice".. nice for an amateur perhaps.. not for anyone else at production levels slightly above that. Trust me..
Click to expand...

Anyone that needs to do above consumer level video production won't be using consumer level movie production software such as iMovie. Final Cut would be the software to use and the Macbook has never been a capable computer to run it.

I understand SOME people's frustration for the firewire feature not being included however I beg to differ that even a fraction of the people used it for more than Target Disk mode. Sheesh, if Apple included the Firewire it's obvious many of you would have bought the Macbook. So how would Apple sell the Macbook Pro? People are already saying it's not worth paying for because the Macbook offers more for the buck.
 
HLdan said:
Anyone that needs to do above consumer level video production won't be using consumer level movie production software such as iMovie. Final Cut would be the software to use and the Macbook has never been a capable computer to run it.

I understand SOME people's frustration for the firewire feature not being included however I beg to differ that even a fraction of the people used it for more than Target Disk mode. Sheesh, if Apple included the Firewire it's obvious many of you would have bought the Macbook. So how would Apple sell the Macbook Pro? People are already saying it's not worth paying for because the Macbook offers more for the buck.
Click to expand...

I big to differ. I bet the target disk mode is the least used. Audio/Video import hello iMovie?), and external HDs.

Most decent video cameras needed FireWire (or iLink as another name) to be able to bring the uncompressed DV to the system. A lot of the new HD/card based ones perform compression or are prohibitively expensive if they have enough HD space not to need it.
 
Can people STOP saying flash/hdd based camcorders are the future!

They arent until a big change occurs, and itll have to literally be HUGE.

Tapes are archivable. Storable. Portable. And altogether useful in the amateur, porno, pro video world.

Dont fool yourself into thinking that a HDD based camcorder is better just because its HD or newer than another MiniDV/DVCAM machine.

When you run out of space on the HDD, what then?
Dump it to the computer?
What if you dont have the computer with you?
How can you send footage to someone...dump to computer, burn to DVD? What if it doesnt fit?
How can you archive uncompressed (ignoring 5:1 DV) video?

Seriously...tape is here to stay for the long run.

I dont get the whole HDD based systems whatsoever, they are so limited in their use, its staggering to see how they are priced when compared to a similar speced MiniDV
 
HLdan said:
Anyone that needs to do above consumer level video production won't be using consumer level movie production software such as iMovie. Final Cut would be the software to use and the Macbook has never been a capable computer to run it.
Click to expand...

Same processor and RAM as the MacBook Pro, bar the dedicated GPU. Since Final Cut needs processing power, not GPU power, then the MacBook is more than capable to run it.

Final Cut Pro isn't CPU intensive unless you are rendering. Just editing, adding transitions etc uses very little CPU. The MacBook is a very capable laptop.

Apple has just chosen to force people to buy the Pro.

They said themselves, the MacBook is Apple's best selling Mac of all time. Why the bloody hell do they go and remove something from it then?!

It was best selling for a reason. Even in the 'Pro' section of their website under profiles, there is a few artists who use MacBooks with their FireWire gear, because the MacBook is so capable and cheap.

Not any more they won't. Apple has really shot themselves in the foot.
 
integragsr said:
I just hope Apple will add the new firewires s3200 https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/401822/ on the next macbooks, they better.
Click to expand...

What are the chances of the hardware already being in place in the new MBP's? As I understand it S3200 is port compatible with FW800. Pie in the sky, I'm sure. Clutching at straws really.

Gutted about lack of FireWire on the MB's. Dumped right on top of audio semi-pro's from a great height. The day's of money flowing freely about the record industry have completely disappeared and the availability of almost pro-level equipment at almost consumer prices has got to be significant for a whole host of non-major labels and artists: those that can't afford huge amounts of studio time or equipment. Plenty of records get made this way.

I had told a friend to wait for 14th Oct to make a MacBook purchase not really expecting them to go through with dropping Firewire. Embarassed that they have.

My next Mac is going to be an iMac. I will make my purchase the day before the media event that sees Apple drop Firewire from them also!

Derwood
 
This is just... sad.

As many others have stated, musicians are taking it royally up the behind.

I was actually thinking about getting a MB just for recording at home. That's completely out of the question now. Apple, you just lost a sale.
 
Sdashiki said:
Can people STOP saying flash/hdd based camcorders are the future!

They arent until a big change occurs, and itll have to literally be HUGE.

Tapes are archivable. Storable. Portable. And altogether useful in the amateur, porno, pro video world.

Dont fool yourself into thinking that a HDD based camcorder is better just because its HD or newer than another MiniDV/DVCAM machine.

When you run out of space on the HDD, what then?
Dump it to the computer?
What if you dont have the computer with you?
How can you send footage to someone...dump to computer, burn to DVD? What if it doesnt fit?
How can you archive uncompressed (ignoring 5:1 DV) video?

Seriously...tape is here to stay for the long run.

I dont get the whole HDD based systems whatsoever, they are so limited in their use, its staggering to see how they are priced when compared to a similar speced MiniDV
Click to expand...

Well, while I don't think it's quite there yet completely to replace tape (though I'm quite happy with it on a consumer level) I do think DV tape will most definitely be gone in 10 years or so.

I personally never said it was "better" than Mini DV, but rather better FOR ME. Having had several Mini DV camcorders and now this, I am much happier with the work flow and file management.

I never run out of disk space, because I have a server that I add additional drives to when the need arises. It's RAID 5, so it's redundant. That information then goes to an external drive monthly. Check out FreeNAS, incredible OS for setting up a file storage server on the cheap.

All video data gets burned in its raw form to gold DVD which is then stored off site at my parent's house 50 miles away.

For giving to other people, I edit the data, and burn a dual layer DVD. They've never been happier with the final result. I also export to Quicktime and host some videos in a username/password SSL-protected area of my website. Of course both of those things can be done with any digital camera, but this is my usage.

And I fail to see how $500 for a camera is expensive. It's not. A couple co-workers have camcorders; one a standard def hard disk-based Sony, the other a mini DV Canon of similar feature set. The end result on DVD is pretty much indistinguishable in my eyes and those of everyone else here.

Hard disk-based cameras aren't the be all/end all. I'm certainly not trying to claim that. But they shouldn't be completely ignored, either.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back