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No iOS 5 for iPhone 3GS?
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chris975d
macrumors 68000
This. If the difference between running iOS 5 and not running it is the 200Mhz difference in processor speed between the iP4 and 3GS (same CPU), then it stands to reason that the iP4 would be pretty laggy with iOS 5.
And if it's the RAM requirement (iP4 has 512, 3GS has 256), then the iPad 1 won't be able to run iOS 5 either.
So this whole rumor seems more like crap, or either Apple is arbitrarily creating artificial reasons that hardware can't receive the next OS.
QuarterSwede
macrumors G4
Who knows what they're actually adding to iOS to tax the RAM that much (I agree that any performance gain in the iP4 is nullified by the fact that it's pushing 4x more pixels). There is a big difference when the OS already has anemic amount of RAM to use (vs GB's of RAM where there is little gain to the OS itself). I feel that the 3GS is really pushing it now with multitasking. 512MB in the iP4 is almost not enough as it is.
Also, who says that the first iPad won't be left out? No one really knows and we simply don't have enough information yet to accurately estimate what Apple will do.
MagnusVonMagnum
macrumors 603
No one found it ridiculous when AppleTV was selling right up until AppleTV Mark 2 came out and it hasn't received a single update since (not even to just add tv show rentals). Boo-hoo and go buy a new one was all the sympathy you could find around here. 🙄
In any case, you might as well just get used to this sort of thing. Apple could easily leave features requiring high-end hardware off for those devices (at least it would ensure apps would continue to work in most cases), but like with 32-bit Intel and PPC before that, they are just abandoning it altogether. It's called "Planned Obsolescence". It's coming to all Apple hardware near you soon. You can expect 2 years from the first release date for an iOS device and 3-4 years for a Mac in the future.
People can argue that developers can support older hardware if they want to, but those of us running PPC machines can attest that just doesn't happen for a lot of software. Once Apple dumped PPC from Xcode in XCode4, the "Unviersal Binaries" started drying up. You can now no longer get an updated Firefox and Chrome didn't even bother to begin with. Everything from Perian to Handbrake to Flash has dumped PPC (and some like Adobe claimed they would be supporting PPC for longer, but then suddenly changed their minds). Some software like Skype and Firefox didn't even bother to point out (let alone do a check) that their newest updates dumped PPC. You had to download it and find out it wouldn't run instead. Mac software support kind of sucks these days. 🙄
Compare that to Windows where most of the software made in 2000 will still run in Windows7 with a few adjustments and even Apple supports XP for its own software whereas they don't support their own OS used through most of 2007 even.
In years past, Apple managed to make newer OS revisions FASTER and FASTER than previous versions of the OS (up through Tiger). Mac users used to make fun of Windows for getting clunkier and slower all the time. This came to a peak with Tiger Vs. Vista. Man did Windows take a beating for a being a POS OS when Vista came out.
NOW it's just the opposite. Leopard was noticeably slower in almost all areas than Tiger, particularly the user interface (even with acceleration). You might not notice if you bought a newer and thus faster computer, but it was obvious on all computers that ran Tiger.
Snow Leopard was promised to be an optimized more efficient (and thus we assumed faster) version of Leopard. This sounded like great news. Maybe Leopard was clunky because of the rush to transition from PPC to Intel. Surely Apple would get it right this time! The problem is that Snow Leopard was even slower than Leopard except perhaps in cases of extreme multi-core use (i.e. my dual-core late 2008 MBP measures slower in nearly all areas with Snow Leopard than regular Leopard). Instead of updating OpenGL to full 3.x or better yet 4.x, they added and greatly HYPED the USELESS OpenCL instead (show me any significant mainstream programs that even use it, years later).
Does anyone here seriously expect Lion to be faster than Snow Leopard? I don't. I expect it to be slower, encumbered by slapping on iOS features on top of regular OSX. Apple puts most of their development time into iOS these days so there is no real time to optimize anything ever and Steve refuses to hire more staff to do both. Even Leopard got delayed for months on end because Apple was too busy working on the first iPhone and couldn't give a crap about OSX proper.
Meanwhile, Windows7 learned from Vista's mistakes and it's a big step up from Vista. It's comparable to XP in speed and a heck of a lot more secure and only going to get more so in the future. It took Microsoft a long time to shape Windows from NT to modern OS, but it's pretty much there. Apple seems to be going backwards in speed and stagnating in appearance by comparison. I'm already at the junction point where I'm not sure I really care if I run OSX or Windows7. Yes, OSX still has vastly less malware, but I've never gotten a virus on WindowsXP even ever. Factor in gaming keeps moving forward for Windows (and Xbox360 ensures easy conversions and/or dual development from huge titles there) while Steve Jobs isn't even sure what a game is, let alone makes any attempt to develop OSX to support them and I figure the future is cloudy at best. I'll certainly have Windows on my next Mac for dual-boot. The question is where I will go from there.
If Apple doesn't start to get its act together and move Macs back ahead of PCs for general computing (instead of spending all its time on phones and tablets), I can't help but see Windows in the future. I don't want a PHONE for my primary computer! I don't care if it's a 'truck' in Steve's eyes. I want a freaking truck baby! And I want it decked out at that.
chrmjenkins
macrumors 603
Apple would not in their right mind not give iPad 1 iOS 5. It's only 2 months older than the iPhone 4!
Poor argument. That's like saying you are disappointed the iPod classis didn't get iOS 1 when the touch launched. The new apple TV is a completely new paradigm compared to the first 1.
KnightWRX
macrumors Pentium
You do realise this is not a Press Release from Apple, but a rumor out of Russia right ?
It's a little early to say this is a done deal, especially in light of the following facts :
- All previous iPhone models got 3 generations of iOS, this would be 2 generations for the 3GS
- The hardware between the 3GS and the iPhone 4 is much closer than it was for the 3G to 3GS. The GPUs are the same, and the CPUs are based on the same architecture.
- The iPad 1 suffers from the same RAM limitation the 3GS does, meaning it would also be left out if this was a RAM issue.
In light of these 3 facts alone, I can safely say this Russian guy is click-baiting.
I cannot believe people are fighting over the concepts of CPU design vs performance etc....
And all you need to do is to browse Geekbench scores....
http://browse.geekbench.ca/geekbench2/search?q=iPhone
iPhone 1,1: 130 to 140 <-- this is the original iPhone
iPhone 1,2: 130 to 140 <-- this is the iPhone 3G
iPhone 2,1: 260 to 280 <-- this is the iPhone 3GS
iPhone 3,1: 340 to 370 <-- this is the iPhone 4
So, a little over 25% performance difference.
BTW, the iPad scores
iPad1,1: 440 to 450 <-- iPad 1
ipad2,1: 740 to 750 <-- iPad 2
And all you need to do is to browse Geekbench scores....
http://browse.geekbench.ca/geekbench2/search?q=iPhone
iPhone 1,1: 130 to 140 <-- this is the original iPhone
iPhone 1,2: 130 to 140 <-- this is the iPhone 3G
iPhone 2,1: 260 to 280 <-- this is the iPhone 3GS
iPhone 3,1: 340 to 370 <-- this is the iPhone 4
So, a little over 25% performance difference.
BTW, the iPad scores
iPad1,1: 440 to 450 <-- iPad 1
ipad2,1: 740 to 750 <-- iPad 2
chris975d
macrumors 68000
Seems I'm in the minority with this opinion but I'd much rather they learn their lesson from the 3G+iOS4 debacle and NOT release an OS for a device that's going to deliver a substandard experience.
I still use a 3G (purchased "new" by my employer mere days before the iphone 4 was released) and eagerly updated to iOS4 at the first opportunity - and have been dreading that decision ever since. I'd have been much happier with a device that at least continued to work the way it did the day I bought it.
I still use a 3G (purchased "new" by my employer mere days before the iphone 4 was released) and eagerly updated to iOS4 at the first opportunity - and have been dreading that decision ever since. I'd have been much happier with a device that at least continued to work the way it did the day I bought it.
QuarterSwede
macrumors G4
That's why I said, "No one really knows and we simply don't have enough information yet to accurately estimate what Apple will do."
I guess the reason this could be believable (no matter who said it, that's not the point) is because iOS4 on the 3G is absolutely freaking awful (my wife uses it). Like many others, we simply hope that isn't the case for the 3GS (depending on what Apple adds). Again, the hardware may be similar but it simply isn't the same. Saying it's close enough is to be naive about what they could actually do with the RAM.
Who knows, maybe they'll have features only for the iP4 and up. Speculation of course.
Just a note: I don't own a 3GS so whatever happens this doesn't affect me.
Dont forget however that you can flash custom updates fairly easy with Android devices.
I myself am currently on a cheap and cheerful Android phone as a temporary measure until the new iPhone comes out (3Gs Died, didn't see the point in getting a iP4 this late in its life).
The device I've got came with Android 2.0. I've got it running 2.2 at the moment and will move it over to 3.0 soon. You choose how much you want to bog your phone down with your build. For example, I never, ever use GPS related functionality, so I build without it to save battery and RAM. Same goes for bluetooth.
From that side of things Android is fairly useful and its a shame Apple cant just release a 'lite' version of each OS update. Truth be told they must be forcefully slowing older devices down. When you look at how iOS runs, its no different to how it ran on version 1.0 or 2.0, its just got added functionality that only runs when you want it to...this brings up the question 'why is it so slow on the older devices' - there are only two logical answers:
1) Very sloppy coding (Which when you think about it enough, may be pretty plausible as they have to have so many iterations and versions for all different devices out there)
2) Forceful slowdown of older devices. Weather its to maintain battery or signal or just to force an upgrade I wouldn't like to say. It seems strange that you go from iOS 4.0.0 to 4.0.1 and they handle like completely different devices.
If that turns out to be the case (Which I hope as I have an iPad 1) then theoretically the 3G
Same specs, smaller screen.
CPU
- The iPad 1 has the 'Apple A4' which is essentially just an ARM Cortex-A8 with a PowerVR GPU built in.
- The 3Gs has an ARM Cortex-A8. The main difference here is that Apple underclocked it to 600MHz (presumably to save battery life and possibly for heating reasons) it is however capable of 1Ghz, just like the iPad with the same CPU. This however is somewhat inconsequential as the 3Gs runs at a lower resolution meaning lower cpu usage for graphics.
Memory
Both have 256MB RAM
As far as I can see it, iOS generally isn't too heavy on CPU usage. If you've got a rooted device, run some tests under load and you'll rarely see high CPU usage.
If this rumour turns out to be true, it has to be said that Apple are screwing over 3Gs owners. If it can run on an iPad 1, its certainly capable of working on the 3Gs.
What made you wait this long? Go do it now so you can sooner realize how big of a mistake you've made.
AidenShaw
macrumors P6
Works for me....
Sounds good to me. Any manufacturer has to drop support for older hardware at some point - and all a phone user should expect is that the phone works as advertised on the day that it was purchased (meaning that bugfixes and security patches should continue, but not necessarily new versions of the OS).
Even better - it means that we'll never again have to read an Iphone fan posting about the "horrors of Android fragmentation". Apple is creating the same situation.
Sounds good to me. Any manufacturer has to drop support for older hardware at some point - and all a phone user should expect is that the phone works as advertised on the day that it was purchased (meaning that bugfixes and security patches should continue, but not necessarily new versions of the OS).
Even better - it means that we'll never again have to read an Iphone fan posting about the "horrors of Android fragmentation". Apple is creating the same situation.
cheesyappleuser
macrumors 6502a
I think I have a word for that.
And the word is stupid.
I have the latest iPhones, and speed difference is not big at all.
So, I'd just like Apple to update it, and that's all...
And the word is stupid.
I have the latest iPhones, and speed difference is not big at all.
So, I'd just like Apple to update it, and that's all...
QuarterSwede
macrumors G4
You forgot:
3) They optimize iOS for the newest hardware only. That's what seems to be the case with every major release. Although, I definitely wouldn't put planned obsolescence past them. This would be an easy way for them to ensure that.
the only people pissed off are 3GS users, guess what guys you are 2 YEARS OUT OF DATE... get a new phone already....
Also its a good idea they doing this, or else we'll have another 3G + iOS4 fail.
Also its a good idea they doing this, or else we'll have another 3G + iOS4 fail.
jonhcox
macrumors regular
Well, I hope that it's wrong as my wife has a 3GS and she is looking forward to seeing what iOS 5 looks like. That said, did anyone see this coming when the prices dropped on the 3GS?
Performance-wise, to be honest, I do see a difference on my 1st gen iPad versus her 3GS. My iPad is faster. I can't measure it quantifiably, but it is faster. To be honest, it's like comparing my iPad versus my wife's iPad 2. Noticeable in certain applications.
That said, wasn't the Droid X end-of-life'd after 11 months? I don't know if it was for hardware related issues or not. All my iPad has to do is to keep working like a charm until March of next year. My wife is up for an upgrade and she can just switch to the iP4. What I would disagree with is for them to continue selling a device that is no longer on the software upgrade cycle. I just don't see that very likely. I would speculate that the 3GS will be able to at least run a limited version of iOS 5.
Performance-wise, to be honest, I do see a difference on my 1st gen iPad versus her 3GS. My iPad is faster. I can't measure it quantifiably, but it is faster. To be honest, it's like comparing my iPad versus my wife's iPad 2. Noticeable in certain applications.
That said, wasn't the Droid X end-of-life'd after 11 months? I don't know if it was for hardware related issues or not. All my iPad has to do is to keep working like a charm until March of next year. My wife is up for an upgrade and she can just switch to the iP4. What I would disagree with is for them to continue selling a device that is no longer on the software upgrade cycle. I just don't see that very likely. I would speculate that the 3GS will be able to at least run a limited version of iOS 5.
But it's the truth. For all that you rag on Android, you have to realize, half of Apple's phones are fragmented. If this statement is true, then by the release of iOS 5, over half of Apple's phones are fragmented.
EDIT: Although, you could run a new ROM on it... oh wait! It's not Android! LOL
jonhcox
macrumors regular
Eventually the hardware cannot support the capabilities of newer software. Many of us bitch and moan over the lack of certain features of iOS and now that this version could allay those concerns, people are up in arms. If you have a 3G, it's damn time you upgraded. If you are using a 3GS and iOS 5 can't run the way Apple wants it to on the phone, sell it on ebay/Craigslist and buy an iPhone 4 or use that upgrade. Apple is all about the experience. If they think that the 3GS just won't preserve what they are to deliver with iOS 5, then so be it. If you go out and purchase a 3GS then you should know, the phone is 2 YEARS OLD. It will eventually be on the upgrade **** list.
Fragmented is crap. Eventually your device can't handle the new software. It is what it is.
iOS5 with an incremental iPhone4 upgrade to 4s will also piss a lot of people off. IMHO the right way to do this is iOS5 with a generational upgrade to a true iPhone5. I refuse to buy an iPhone4s with the iPhone5/6/? potentially coming out right after in 2012. I'll stick with my 3Gs till the true iPhone5/6/? comes out regardless of iOS version. Maybe I'll get a Droid phone till the next generational iPhone comes out like rmwebs did above? Great hardware cant sell crappy software just like great software cant sell crappy hardware. Apple seems to get this point, so lets hope they continue getting it with the next releases of the iOS and iPhone.
I don't think that word means what you think it does.
I have a 3rd generation iPod Touch. The hardware isn't that much different than a first generation iPad. I guarantee you the iPad will get iOS 5. The only reason they will do this is because they expect me to upgrade my iPod. They are sadly mistaken.