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No one's buying MacBooks. Why?
- Thread starter AdonisSMU
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This has never been our experience. Generally we've been asked once, maybe twice, and then left alone. Should we need further assistance, we find a team member and see if they have time to answer a few questions. If we are only looking we are left alone.
Next time take a photo!
I live around 3 apple stores, within 10KM of each other and they are almost always packed! I mean packed! Granted there are alot of store staff among the shoppers.
However, I have noticed that most are just browsing and don't end up purchase anything. The other big group is made up of people waiting for genius bar appointments. I do have the perception that Apple quality is dropping, and there are alot of people coming for reparis or just queires.
To be honest, the exprience at Apple store is not great, due to the number of people in there. But what keep me going back is the 14 days return policy, on top of my faulty iphone and macbooks!
It could also be more people are buying Apple products who don't know much about computers. The "It Just Works" motto could be driving people to buy systems they have no knowledge of or desire to learn.
We saw this in Windows when moving from 3.1 to Windows 95 because the UI was so much better and easier to use but they had no clue how to do things, such as setting up email.
The times we've been in the store near the Genius area we hear questions and answers that give weight to my feelings. Questions I see posted online that generally can be answered with a well crafted web search.
Man do you people put a lot of faith into your own personal anecdotes...
In all seriousness they don't exactly seem to line up with reality considering that Apple's mac, specially their laptop sales, have actually been growing while their iPhone and iPad sales have been declining. My gut feeling is that if there's been any decline in the number of people going into Apple stores, it's mostly been a decline in people going there to buy iPads and iPhones.
In all seriousness they don't exactly seem to line up with reality considering that Apple's mac, specially their laptop sales, have actually been growing while their iPhone and iPad sales have been declining. My gut feeling is that if there's been any decline in the number of people going into Apple stores, it's mostly been a decline in people going there to buy iPads and iPhones.
Unlike folks on MR who obsess over every model and release, and some blessed enough to buy a MBP for the couch, one for the bedroom and multiple others for each bathroom - most normal people who wanted a MBP over the past decade or so have got one. And if you don't abuse them, computers over the past decade will last a long time. My primary computer at home is a 2012 rMBP and it is going strong. Business users who must absolutely have the latest product aren't milling around Apple stores much either.
Good to hear - I guess I've been unlucky in my visits over the last couple years.
Unsurprisingly, whatever experience we each have is simply its own data point with which very little can be inferred about other peoples experiences.
It's definitely no surprise to hear of rather different store experiences depending upon region and when you visit, why you're there, on and on.
I have family with Apple. That said, they rarely tell me much because ANYONE can be fired for leaking info. But I was told directly that Apple did exceedingly well (better than previous) with the top tier models, which is not all that surprising. I do not know if the 13" models did as well relative to previous 13" releases. On the other hand, Apple has better margins on premium top their versions.
The new MBP is so good that some negative media could not derail it. After a few weeks with the 13" and 15" Touch Bars I knew that the complaints were pretty much invalid.
R.
Not that it matters in the mainstream (yet), but there certainly have been a lot of grousing remarks about the latest MBP's in the developer community. The types that make Apps, tweet about it, blog about it and podcast about it, etc.
It's mostly all been about reliability issues with the keyboards though. That's the one thing that in my time with the new models over a couple weeks, even I had an issue with (and a trackpad that was going crazy on Force Touch).
Hopefully whatever this heat/dust/whatever thing is plaguing some keyboards will get worked out. Nothing like that was ever an issue before so that is certainly an unwelcome step back at the moment.
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That's great if true, but do you see the problem of providing unverified mystery sources as definitive proof of anything in forum discussion here?
Is your family member on the executive team?
High up in finance?
It's highly unlikely that detailed unit & revenue numbers by channel and model are widely distributed data points.
As you stated above, they guard that information closely.
It's also just not information the majority of employees have any need to know.
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I'm hoping they resolve any reliability/longevity/dirt accumulation issues with whenever the next release is. With that said, I've noticed it seems to be more prevalent with the MacBook than MacBook Pro.
There in lies our issues with anecdotal evidence.
All those devs/podcasters/tweeters having KB issues are having them with the Pro's, not the rMB.
I had both 2015 and 2016 rMB's for nearly a year each and zero keyboard problems. But only a few weeks with multiple 2016 MBP's resulted in 2 stuck key situations.
Ugh - Sucks...
Hopefully the get it worked out
It may be because the MacBook has been out longer so there has been more time + more sales units, but with where I am at several times the quantity of MacBooks have come back for keyboard issues than the MacBook Pro, where one or more keys reach a point where they stop having any travel at all, sometimes even after cleaning procedures. Most of the ones I've personally handled have been 2015s, possibly because such issues could take time to develop in some cases.
Could be..
But then again most of the KB stories on here and stories from all these dev communities and podcasts and all their channels have all been talking about 2016 MBP KB's.
In both cases, they really need to iron out whatever the problem is with the butterfly keyboards. This can't be the way of the future. Just horrible to have to even worry about keyboard reliability, especially since that's basically never been true before the Butterfly's came along. Huge step in the wrong direction.
Provided that it actually is a problem with the keyboard and not users not being accustomed to this behaviour (it's a clicky keyboard and when you are one who pounds keys instead of pressing them then yes, you get all weird noises that can be heard through a small room). Also too many people consume food near computers which have lead to libraries, schools, universities, etc. to put up signs that eating near computers is forbidden.
Keyboards are extremely gross and we sysadmins/tech support simply stopped cleaning them out (the average keyboard holds an entire sandwich...easily). We just give a new keyboard (and bill it to you...after all, you broke it).
Keyboards are extremely gross and we sysadmins/tech support simply stopped cleaning them out (the average keyboard holds an entire sandwich...easily). We just give a new keyboard (and bill it to you...after all, you broke it).
For me it was keys getting stuck and working incorrectly depending upon what seemed like the operating temperature of the machine/ambient/some combo there. Machine wasn't even 2 weeks old.
It sounds like similar stories on the different podcaster groups I've now heard talk about it.
Speaking of the noises - I did find it pretty "wrong sounding" to have several keys making a differently pitched noise than the other ones. That sort of thing just doesn't make the machine exude the quality and polish we are all so used to (and love) with Apple laptops.
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Guys, go check into this thread..
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...any-indication-of-an-upcoming-update.2047643/
This is interesting..
Something appears to be getting changed about the 15" models, as no new ones are available for any date pre-keynote next week.
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The point was: the issues may be the same but the root cause is not. And put differently: just because the issues are the same doesn't mean that they all have the same root cause.
The key sounds aren't necessarily strange at all. In fact, this has always been the case with old keyboards and still is with modern day rubber dome ones. The only difference is that you can't easily hear it with those rubber domes but you can with the clicky keys. Just search for "mechanical keyboard" on YouTube and have a listen. You'll hear that ALL those keyboards will make various sounds with various keys. It is something that is mentioned in almost every keyboard review as well. That leads me to believe that there is also an aspect of people simply not being aware of this behaviour and thus thinking it is not normal (let some people have a go at a mechanical keyboard and they'll remark how weird it types).
From a physics point of view I doubt it is even possible to make a keyboard that doesn't do this because of the angle you hit the keys. The angle varies due to key placement as well as finger placement and movement. Hit the key a tad bit different and it'll make a different sound. You can easily test it by hitting the key straight on in the middle and hitting it at an angle at the very edge/corner. There is tension that gets released somehow and it can make things resonate.
The high pitched sound is very typical of clicky switches and has been discussed often in the world of keyboards. The IBM Model M is well known for its weird high pitched ping (caused by the spring in the switch). It's a sound you either don't mind or you hate. For the latter there are solutions.
For more information, check out deskthority.net, geekhack.org or reddit for even more resources.
We can't dismiss this nor can we dismiss the fact that anything can break and this it can simply be a matter of a defect (which may or may not be a design flaw, production flaw or anything else). It's a rather interesting issue and both cases can necessitate a design change (if people find it too awkward to use the keyboard...; it can even cut down the amount of support requests).
The key sounds aren't necessarily strange at all. In fact, this has always been the case with old keyboards and still is with modern day rubber dome ones. The only difference is that you can't easily hear it with those rubber domes but you can with the clicky keys. Just search for "mechanical keyboard" on YouTube and have a listen. You'll hear that ALL those keyboards will make various sounds with various keys. It is something that is mentioned in almost every keyboard review as well. That leads me to believe that there is also an aspect of people simply not being aware of this behaviour and thus thinking it is not normal (let some people have a go at a mechanical keyboard and they'll remark how weird it types).
From a physics point of view I doubt it is even possible to make a keyboard that doesn't do this because of the angle you hit the keys. The angle varies due to key placement as well as finger placement and movement. Hit the key a tad bit different and it'll make a different sound. You can easily test it by hitting the key straight on in the middle and hitting it at an angle at the very edge/corner. There is tension that gets released somehow and it can make things resonate.
The high pitched sound is very typical of clicky switches and has been discussed often in the world of keyboards. The IBM Model M is well known for its weird high pitched ping (caused by the spring in the switch). It's a sound you either don't mind or you hate. For the latter there are solutions.
For more information, check out deskthority.net, geekhack.org or reddit for even more resources.
We can't dismiss this nor can we dismiss the fact that anything can break and this it can simply be a matter of a defect (which may or may not be a design flaw, production flaw or anything else). It's a rather interesting issue and both cases can necessitate a design change (if people find it too awkward to use the keyboard...; it can even cut down the amount of support requests).
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I think we are just missing what each of us means here.
Obviously keys don't sound 100% identical, but the strange sounds from certain keys from time to time on the 2016 MBP's I experienced was very much outside any normal range.
In short - it was just quite obviously not even as Apple intended it to be. They could be keys literally right next to each other, depressed in the same exact way, but making a wildly different pitch, again somewhat seemingly related to those keys also getting stuck if the machine was doing something intensive for awhile.
I am positive that what I and others have experienced in this regard was not representative of anything Apple's hardware designers desired when creating the product.
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I'm a member and contributor at all 3 places under different names at each. I'm very familiar with mech boards and have owned F's, M's, 2 SSK's, multiple Topre's (including clones), a Code, 2 Cherry variants, several Matias, the old Ergo MS boards, the latest Sculpts, all the Apple boards (even all the different old Alps ones), on and on.
It's with all that experience that I approach commenting on these issues with the Butterfly keyboards. They are doing some strange things for many people that need to be addressed by Apple.