No SD Card Slot in Next-Generation iPad?

[2IS]

I thought it was obvious we are talking about storage devices, (ie: "drives") not microprocessors? I guess it's another one of those things that would be obvious to most people but not all. Not unlike how faster processors, SD card slots, higher resolution screens, and cameras have obvious benefits that some people just can't put their finger on.

Yes, a traditional Solid State Drive with a SATA and power connector are different then a USB flash drive. However they're both referred to as "drives" and they're both solid state, so they are both Solid State Drives from a technical aspect.

 

[jca666us]

So iPad 2 is now going to have a 1024x768 display, a 1 mega-pixel camera, and no SD Card slot. What is next to be dropped the rumored A5 processor?

Seriously though, why would anyone in their right mind design a case to give access to the Sim Card???

I think because of the iPhone 4 fiasco, apple is holding their iPad2 cards very close to their chest.

I expect we'll be surprised by the ipad2...

 

[cmaier]

I thought it was obvious we are talking about storage devices, (ie: "drives") not microprocessors? I guess it's another one of those things that would be obvious to most people but not all. Not unlike how faster processors, SD card slots, higher resolution screens, and cameras have obvious benefits that some people just can't put their finger on.

Yes, a traditional Solid State Drive with a SATA and power connector are different then a USB flash drive. However they're both referred to as "drives" and they're both solid state, so they are both Solid State Drives from a technical aspect.

You are absolutely wrong. You can't just say that flash RAM is an "SSD" because "it's referred to as 'drives.'" It's not. You don't just get to invent new definitions for words because you'd like to.

An SSD is a specific thing, just like an SD card is a particular thing. An SD card also has flash memory inside it, and yet it is NOT a SSD. Just like the flash memory inside the iPad is NOT a SSD.

Once again, an SSD is a particular kind of device. It has to have a certain kind of controller in it. The flash memory in the iPad, just like the flash memory inside an SD card, does not have the required controller.

(By the way, some SSD's in the past used DRAM. And just because they used DRAM doesn't mean that your computer's RAM is an SSD, either.)

 

[AidenShaw]

A SSD is a device that combines solid state memory (flash, DRAM, SRAM, etc.) with a controller that makes the device appear to the host system as if it is just a hard disk. The iPad does not have an SSD in it. It has flash RAM in it.

Can you prove this? ("This" being that OSX/IOS on the Ipad does not see the persistent memory as a block-structured device based on /dev/hda or /dev/sda or some other device type?)

I'd be surprised if the OSX core of IOS on the Ipad is using some paradigm other than a block-structured file storage device.

And, if it is block-structured, in essence it's a disk made from solid state flash - therefore an "SSD" even if it isn't a removeable component with a standard SATA or PATA interface.

 

[Laird Knox]

Come on guys it is obvious. Just as obvious as the fact that the iPad will never be a computer. I mean really, it doesn't have drives, a video card or expansion slots.

 

[cmaier]

Can you prove this? ("This" being that OSX/IOS on the Ipad does not see the persistent memory as a block-structured device based on /dev/hda or /dev/sda or some other device type?)

I'd be surprised if the OSX core of IOS on the Ipad is using some paradigm other than a block-structured file storage device.

And, if it is block-structured, in essence it's a disk made from solid state flash - therefore an "SSD" even if it isn't a removeable component with a standard SATA or PATA interface.

The controller, if there is one, is on the ARM cpu or is done via driver or kernel extension. Just open up an iPad and you will see there is no separate controller for the flash ram, and the flash is standard modules, not an SSD.

 

[AidenShaw]

Think of the abstraction, man!

The controller, if there is one, is on the ARM cpu or is done via driver or kernel extension. Just open up an iPad and you will see there is no separate controller for the flash ram, and the flash is standard modules, not an SSD.

I don't have a pentalobular screwdriver set to open one up....

Seriously, though, my point is that if the SoC implements a block-structured controller, or if the software essentially emulates a block-structured controller - then it is not simply flash chips, it is effectively an SSD.

We all agree that the "SS" in "SSD" means "solid state" - no argument that the memory is solid state flash. The "D" in "SSD" is "disk" - which is absurd since there are no spinning round things in the Ipad or any flash SSD. (Some of the older SDRAM-based SSDs did have a spinning disk to save the SDRAM contents to the real disk at power off, but let's stick with flash technology.)

So, current SSDs provide a block-structured (LBA addressing) emulation to the OS - the device contains N sectors of some size, and they're addressed from sector 0 to sector N-1. Some of these SSDs have PATA or SATA interfaces, and are physically and logically nearly perfect replacements for a rotational media hard drive. Others, like the blade SSDs that have been used in netbooks for years and recently adopted for the MacBook Air, use different form factors and connectors - but still follow PATA or SATA interface protocols.

So, the essence of my argument is that the definition of an "SSD" is whether the mid and upper layers of the operating system kernel see an LBA-addressed block-structured device. My definition does not require that the SSD have a standard SATA or PATA interface connector, or that it can be removed and accessed in another computer system.

If the abstraction seen by most of the OS is the block-structured behaviour that we've associated with "disks", then one can reasonably call it a disk.

Clearly "SSDs" are not disks, but we call them disks. If the Ipad OSX/IOS sees the persistent storage as a block-structured device, then some hardware/firmware/software is turning those flash chips into a disk.

I don't need a screwdriver to prove it - all I'd need is a jail-broken Ipad and some time with a bash shell to poke around the device and file system structures. If it looks like a disk, if it acts like a disk - I'll call it an SSD.

 

[cmaier]

I don't have a pentalobular screwdriver set to open one up....

Seriously, though, my point is that if the SoC implements a block-structured controller, or if the software essentially emulates a block-structured controller - then it is not simply flash chips, it is effectively an SSD.

We all agree that the "SS" in "SSD" means "solid state" - no argument that the memory is solid state flash. The "D" in "SSD" is "disk" - which is absurd since there are no spinning round things in the Ipad or any flash SSD. (Some of the older SDRAM-based SSDs did have a spinning disk to save the SDRAM contents to the real disk at power off, but let's stick with flash technology.)

So, current SSDs provide a block-structured (LBA addressing) emulation to the OS - the device contains N sectors of some size, and they're addressed from sector 0 to sector N-1. Some of these SSDs have PATA or SATA interfaces, and are physically and logically nearly perfect replacements for a rotational media hard drive. Others, like the blade SSDs that have been used in netbooks for years and recently adopted for the MacBook Air, use different form factors and connectors - but still follow PATA or SATA interface protocols.

So, the essence of my argument is that the definition of an "SSD" is whether the mid and upper layers of the operating system kernel see an LBA-addressed block-structured device. My definition does not require that the SSD have a standard SATA or PATA interface connector, or that it can be removed and accessed in another computer system.

If the abstraction seen by most of the OS is the block-structured behaviour that we've associated with "disks", then one can reasonably call it a disk.

Clearly "SSDs" are not disks, but we call them disks. If the Ipad OSX/IOS sees the persistent storage as a block-structured device, then some hardware/firmware/software is turning those flash chips into a disk.

I don't need a screwdriver to prove it - all I'd need is a jail-broken Ipad and some time with a bash shell to poke around the device and file system structures. If it looks like a disk, if it acts like a disk - I'll call it an SSD.

Yeah, that's all nice and philosophical and all, but if I have to call up digikey and buy a replacement part because my flash memory went bad, I'm buying a flash module, not a SSD. When it's time to replace my laptop's hard drive, I'm going to newegg.com and buying an SSD.

They're simply different things with different definitions.

 

[AidenShaw]

Yeah, that's all nice and philosophical and all, but if I have to call up digikey and buy a replacement part because my flash memory went bad, I'm buying a flash module, not a SSD. When it's time to replace my laptop's hard drive, I'm going to newegg.com and buying an SSD.

They're simply different things with different definitions.

As I said:

My definition does not require that the SSD have a standard SATA or PATA interface connector, or that it can be removed and accessed in another computer system.​

If you took all of the chips on the MacBook Air SSD and embedded them on the motherboard, would it cease to be an SSD?

I don't see that "being able to buy it from Newegg" is an essential part of the definition of an SSD.

I do see that the "OS abstraction of a block-structured device" is an important part of the definition - and I don't believe that even on a jailbroken Ipad you'll see anything at the OS abstraction level to lead you to believe that persistent store is not a "disk". There may be some ID properties to help you determine that, but most of the OS is going to be reading and writings sectors using LBA addressing - just like it does on a disk with spinning round things, and just like it does with an SSD that emulates a spinning round thing device on PATA or SATA.

 

[Andronicus]

I knew Apple wasn't cool enough to add an SD Card Slot.

 

[zerolight]

I'd prefer it to be a speaker cutout. Stereo in both portrait and landscape.

 

[thewinelake]

This cutout looks like it goes around the edge, so I don't see how it could be a SIM OR an SD card slot. It's just like the one at the bottom (that's supposed to be a speaker). Maybe it's a hoax? ;-)

 

[interestedabit]

Meh, don't care... If I'd ever want to use sd cards with an iPad the Camera Connection Kit would do.

Sucker.. That's how Apple want you to think, pay extra for a cable that should totally come as standard. Make something with gimped functionality then sneakily introduce a 'kit' - very BMW school of marketing. They also love the word 'kit' - for shame.

 

[geko29]

But I can already connect my iPhone/iPad to the TV

Do you mean this is impossible:

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC917ZM/A?fnode=MTY1NDAzOQ&mco=MjAyNDI1ODQ

or this:

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC748ZM/A?fnode=MTY1NDAzOQ&mco=MjAyNDI1OTU

What part of "DISPLAY PORT is impossible" do you not understand? Display Port is not Component video, and it's not composite video either. The existence of other display cables is completely beside the point. Both types COMBINED use 5 pins, two of which already have to be present for analog audio out. So a grand total of 3 pins had to be allocated. Can you really not see how this is different from allocating 13 pins, especially when there aren't that many available?

Don't think there is a HDMI option right now

No **** sherlock. That was the ENTIRE POINT of my post.

 

[iPhoneCollector]

who even thought for a second that the ipad2 would have a sd slot?

 

[George Knighton]

who even thought for a second that the ipad2 would have a sd slot?

I never really thought about it.

One of the advantages of the iPhone and iPad, it seems to me, is the speedy integration of the flash memory and the ease with which we're able to synchronise these devices without our iMac and MacBook devices.

If there were an SD slot, I am not sure I'd even use it.

 

[JGowan]

I don't buy it as a sim card opening. How many millions of iPhone cases and which have openings to take your sim card in and out? None.

It's got to be for an SD card.

 

[h00ligan]

Photos are intensely personnel and sharing them with friends and family brings great joy to most our lifes. Now that sd cards are in all but the highest and lowest of cameras plus is easy to support for along time to come. Then taking away that dongle, that is probably at "somewhere" and stopping you just showing off a couple of photos you took while out and about one the best screen you have on you.

Apple makes that experience seamless no fuss, "it just works" and part of everyday life, no ad is every going to get people to think about your product as highly as nailing a moment like that in real life.

I agree with your overall thoughts.. however cf is still in heavy rotation with dslr's.

 

[alexhasfun28]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

I told you so!

 

[Tonywirk]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148a Safari/6533.18.5)

It's for a microphone

 

[Snowy_River]

Yeah, that's all nice and philosophical and all, but if I have to call up digikey and buy a replacement part because my flash memory went bad, I'm buying a flash module, not a SSD. When it's time to replace my laptop's hard drive, I'm going to newegg.com and buying an SSD.

They're simply different things with different definitions.

So, by this logic, if a laptop has some RAM soldered onto the motherboard, the that's not really RAM, because if it fails then you're going to be buying a new computer, not new RAM. Right?

 

[cmaier]

So, by this logic, if a laptop has some RAM soldered onto the motherboard, the that's not really RAM, because if it fails then you're going to be buying a new computer, not new RAM. Right?

Don't be ridiculous. My point is that each part of the computer has a name that is agreed upon by people in the industry and who practice the art of computer design and manufacture. RAM is RAM. Flash is flash. And SSD's are SSD's.

And if you have an ARM chip with some sort of controller in it that makes external flash look like a hard drive, you do not have an SSD. You have an ARM CPU and you have flash RAM. These things have real names that every engineer agrees on, and you guys can't just change them because you feel like it.

If you're an expert and want to desolder your iPad and increase it's capacity, you cannot do so by purchasing an SSD. You need to purchase flash memory modules.

By the argument all you obvious non-engineers are making, everything with flash in it could be an SSD (SD card, compactflash card, usb key, etc.) That's simply not true.

 

[AidenShaw]

Don't be ridiculous. My point is that each part of the computer has a name that is agreed upon by people in the industry and who practice the art of computer design and manufacture. RAM is RAM. Flash is flash. And SSD's are SSD's.

And if you have an ARM chip with some sort of controller in it that makes external flash look like a hard drive, you do not have an SSD. You have an ARM CPU and you have flash RAM. These things have real names that every engineer agrees on, and you guys can't just change them because you feel like it.

If you're an expert and want to desolder your iPad and increase it's capacity, you cannot do so by purchasing an SSD. You need to purchase flash memory modules.

By the argument all you obvious non-engineers are making, everything with flash in it could be an SSD (SD card, compactflash card, usb key, etc.) That's simply not true.

I think that the RAM analogy is spot on.

Please post a link to the official definition of "SSD". But in fact, I'll bet that you can't find an official definition of the acronym - both "solid state disk" and "solid state drive" are common. And both are ludicrous, since an SSD is neither a "disk" nor a "drive".

ps: SNIA calls it a "solid state disk".

 

[cmaier]

I think that the RAM analogy is spot on.

Please post a link to the official definition of "SSD". But in fact, I'll bet that you can't find an official definition of the acronym - both "solid state disk" and "solid state drive" are common. And both are ludicrous, since an SSD is neither a "disk" nor a "drive".

Aiden, you should know me well enough by now and should know I wouldn't fall for your little strawman argument. Nowhere did I say anything about "official." I never claimed there was an IEEE standard or that some standards organization had issued a formal proclamation. I simply said that engineers agree on the terminology.

I hate to ever point at wikipedia (for obvious reasons), but even wikipedia states: "Every SSD includes a controller that incorporates the electronics that bridge the NAND memory components to the host computer. The controller is an embedded processor that executes firmware-level code and is one of the most important factors of SSD performance"

And, btw, I don't see how the RAM analogy is even close to relevant. Aside from the fact that SSD's can actually be made of RAM, my point is that when you order the part, it has an agreed upon name. The name is the name, even if the part is not user-replaceable.

 

[MattInOz]

I agree with your overall thoughts.. however cf is still in heavy rotation with dslr's.

Yes CF has the high end and is likely to keep it for some time, just on capacity the physical volume give you.

A Dslr is a very different usage style to the point and shoot market. You buy in to the Dslr (even micro4:3) products then having a support kit is almost a given, having the usb cable and dongle isn't much different to have a different lens, spare batteries, some filters,.... if you leave home without the kit you've already accepted a compromise.

Point and Shoot the cable and dongle is the kit.

What part of "DISPLAY PORT is impossible" do you not understand? Display Port is not Component video, and it's not composite video either. The existence of other display cables is completely beside the point. Both types COMBINED use 5 pins, two of which already have to be present for analog audio out. So a grand total of 3 pins had to be allocated. Can you really not see how this is different from allocating 13 pins, especially when there aren't that many available?

A Pin doesn't need to have that same job in all situations. Just as long as the new functions is not activated when the old functions is required. So they can take one un-assigned pin have that as say the handshake pin because no existing device is going to make a connection on that pin. The device gets a connection on that pin it switches over the other pins.
Out of the 30 pins only the USBb for charging and syncing needs to keeps it's function. So the 5 existing AV pins can are then fair game so are the 5 for the second USB accessory host interface. Add a few others and your there. Adding a Digital AV out only really needs to dedicate 1 pin that wasn't assigned before.

Perfectly possible DVI does just that between analog and digital.