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Nokia and Microsoft Team Up in Smartphone Battle

petvas said:
That might be correct for Android but it doesn't apply to Windows Phone 7. Manufacturers cannot customize the OS. Every device has the "pure" experience. The GUI cannot be changed and the maximum an OEM can do is to add a live tile with his applications. Nothing else.
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That's not actually true. Carriers can change the colour of the enormous tile things - to match their own branding. I also noted some other differences on the couple of occasions I looked at three different providers of the same WP7 devices.

I have to say I find the whole aesometric design to be utterly revolting, counter intuitive to the point of being confusing. It's so much more than just badly designed. And then there's the issue of browser pages not sizing correctly. If it was still in beta, they might have an excuse.

And that's only the devices and UI. In the UK, staff at Carphone Warehouse and O2 shops have still not been trained on WP7, despite getting stock back in October last year!

This is being very badly run. Any company the size of MS should have definitely got enough staff to sort the software out, hone a decent coherent marketing plan, train retailers and create a momentum.

But none of this is happening. Instead they're busy organising Communist era style coups in Scandinavia. Rogue creatures do not change their habits. Criminals do not alter their MOs. Both just get nastier and greedier.
 
I still have an 8 year old Nokia 6100. I use it to make calls. I've had under 10 dropped calls in total. In other words, it just works.

For everything else, I have an iPod Touch.

I think this is a good call for both companies. The big question is whether they can get into the mindset of selling systems instead of products. It seems like the Nokia CEO gets the idea.

This definitely has potential, so laugh it up while you can :)
 
Do it I've done it.

As my retarded Uncle Bob, who thinks he's some type of Philly bad boy but is really a mechanic from Pottsville would say,

"I wish you luck, man. Do it I've done it I've tried it all man, but seriously, I wish you luck."
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Hope it works out for them.

PS. My one year old NOKIA just died. Time to get a you-know-what.
 
Quick bit of concept prototype art for the first Nokia WP7 phone.

gsmarena_001.jpg
 
Carniphage said:
Perhaps you might know.

Are WP7 users reliant upon carriers for software updates?
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Apparently updates can come from both Microsoft (for core code) and the carriers (for custom code). Which makes sense; why update everyone if just one carrier adds something special like say, a hotspot for six.

The big brouhaha right now with bloggers is the revelation that carriers can ask Microsoft to delay an update to their devices, while the carrier does more testing. Personally, if I were a carrier, I'd want that ability as well.

The first MS update is due soon, so we'll see what happens.

--

Side comment from someone who's been involved in big updates: The reasons that carriers (and Apple for that matter) delay updates are to cut down on possible support cases, as well as to try to avoid publicized disasters. As long as the updates eventually arrive, those reasons are both understandable and desirable.

If I were King for a day, I'd let the carriers delay update pushes, but let savvy users have access via a registered website or something, so they cannot complain if they choose to update ahead of time. Or better... always make sure there's a downgrade path as well.
 
kdarling said:
Apparently updates can come from both Microsoft and the carriers. Which makes sense; why update everyone if just one carrier adds something special like say, a hotspot for six.

The big brouhaha right now with bloggers is the revelation that carriers can ask Microsoft to delay an update to their devices, while the carrier does more testing. Personally, if I were a carrier, I'd want that ability as well.

The first MS update is due soon, so we'll see what happens.

--

Side comment from someone who's been involved in big updates: The reasons that carriers (and Apple for that matter) delay updates are to cut down on possible support cases, as well as to try to avoid publicized disasters. As long as they eventually arrive, that's understandable.

If I were King for a day, I'd let the carriers delay update pushes, but let savvy users have access via a registered website or something, so they cannot complain if they choose to update ahead of time. Or better... always make sure there's a downgrade path as well.
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Interesting.

Personally, I don't trust carriers to act in my best interest. The more control they have, the more they seem to abuse it.


C.
 
Carniphage said:
Personally, I don't trust carriers to act in my best interest.
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Yep, but no surprise, since a carrier is just another company.

As those who defend some of Apple's policies and restrictions constantly point out, companies almost always act in their own best interest. Sometimes that coincides with my interest, or your interest; sometimes not.

The more control they have, the more they seem to abuse it.
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True. Again, for control abuse, see Apple in the dictionary. They're infamous for leaving out options just to force people to update.

In addition, testing is a major cost and time factor. Sometimes it's just not worth it.

Even Apple didn't roll out iOS 4.0 to the pod and phone and iPad at the same time. The iPad update got delayed by months for further refinement. And that's with Apple only supporting a few models.
 
kdarling said:
Yep, but no surprise, since a carrier is just another company.

As those who defend some of Apple's policies and restrictions constantly point out, companies almost always act in their own best interest. Sometimes that coincides with my interest, or your interest; sometimes not.
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I agree with that.

But it's in the best interests of the phone manufacturer to improve the best experience of the device. Add utility. Fix problems and so on. This is closely aligned with my requirements as a customer.

The carrier is less interested in that kind of thing. It's in the best interest of the carrier to sign-up new customers to newer products. It's in the best interest of the carrier to restrict service, and charge for additional products. Turning off VOIP etc

As far as I can see, this is not aligned with my requirements as a customer.

kdarling said:
Even Apple didn't roll out iOS 4.0 to the pod and phone and iPad at the same time. The iPad update got delayed by months for further refinement. And that's with Apple only supporting a few models.
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Oh, any mobile manufacturer would be nuts to release software that was not thoroughly tested. But it's just not the network's job to do that.

All the network needs is a means to restrict a device's functionality on their network. Which is what Apple's carrier settings file provides. A tiny OTA file which can allows the carrier to activate or deactivate the features that they are responsible for.


C.
 
Microsoft won the bidding war and got the most coveted OEM of them all. The hijack worked. Nokia is now the Scandinavian housewife doing all the chores for her new American husband. But guess what? In this shotgun marriage, Nokia is still selling #1 in volume sales and still getting billions from her new hubby.

This is why Microsoft is the real winner in the relationship and celebrating right now. More Ballmer, please?

WATCH THE MICROSOFT CELEBRATION RIGHT NOW -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY2j_GPIqRA&feature=related

^^^ Would Steve Jobs do this? No. Boring. Gates and Ballmer would!
 
idiots...

I find it interesting how they used royalty free imovie music for this video...:apple: rules. Don't believe me, go watch the macbook air interview video at apple.com
 
Savor said:
Microsoft won the bidding war and got the most coveted OEM of them all. The hijack worked. Nokia is now the Scandinavian housewife doing all the chores for her new American husband. But guess what? In this shotgun marriage, Nokia is still selling #1 in volume sales and still getting billions from her new hubby.

This is why Microsoft is the real winner in the relationship and celebrating right now. More Ballmer, please?

WATCH THE MICROSOFT CELEBRATION RIGHT NOW -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY2j_GPIqRA&feature=related

^^^ Would Steve Jobs do this? No. Boring. Gates and Ballmer would!
Click to expand...

Microsoft is just collecting lame ducks. It's what failing companies do.

Successful companies collect up-and-coming start-ups with bright minds, revolutionary ideas and cutting edge technology. They then incorporate all these into tomorrow's products and services.

Contrast this successful model with what Microsoft just did: They rescued the world's first [former premier] and largest [by volume and turnover] mobile phone manufacturer, which has [for more than three years], failed to come up with anything to compete with the trend its market has taken.

By anybody's standards, that's not a great move. Whatever they had ten years ago, they clearly don't have it anymore. This is like signing Melanie Griffith to play a teenage role in a movie instead of say... Dakota Fanning. No? Oh yes it is. It's exactly like that. But in many ways it's worse - for both of them.

Without Microsoft, Nokia had the option to invest in startups and reinvent the company along the lines of a leaner business model. Instead they've joined forces with... the Titanic - just as it reaches mid Atlantic!

And if it's bad for Nokia, and this will kill them, it's possibly worse for Microsoft.

There was a time when Wall St. understood Big Blue and didn't understand Microsoft. Then Wall St. did understand Microsoft and didn't understand Apple. Now, millions of new customers buying millions of a growing range of successful products over the past 10 years, creating staggering profits and huge cash reserves have all helped investors comprehend Apple's revolutionary business model. And Wall St. finally understands Apple. This has left Microsoft with a massive credibility problem. Wall St. has an example of how a successful 21st Century tech company should be run, and what it means for the stock price.

For some time now investors have rightly been asking why Microsoft isn't run this way, questioning whether it's all Ballmer's fault, or whether there's a more deep-rooted problem in Redmond. They obviously had to do something big to grab the world's attention, for however fleeting a moment. But instead of delivering the good news Ballmer surely expected it to, the announcement of the Nokia deal actually caused the stock price to fall. This could have been expected if Microsoft had just spent a lot of money buying Nokia. But they didn't, they signed them up as their new flagship customer. The market has already spoken.

Watch this space. We're about to see two giants, two dinosaurs... fail - BIG style.
 
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G58 said:
Microsoft is just collecting lame ducks. It's what failing companies do.

Watch this space. We're about to see two giants, two dinosaurs... fail - BIG style.
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I'm sure they're both shaking in their shoes with your knowledgeable insight. :rolleyes:
 
AppleScruff1 said:
I'm sure they're both shaking in their shoes with your knowledgeable insight. :rolleyes:
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It's far too early on a Monday morning for comedy. But if you're still in the mood for funnies come Friday evening I'm sure you'll find somewhere with an open mic night.

The timescale is open right now, but if you're a betting man... The OS is supposedly ready, and presumably Nokia have some devices either already released or in development. So if the fruits of this unholy marriage haven't made a dint in the market within 12 months, I consider my prediction will be much closer to a dead sert.

And believe me, 12 months on top of the FOUR YEARS since the iPhone was announced [in which Nokia have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING], is a hell of a long time in any business, but in technology - it's a lifetime.

Watch that stock price. Watch how many of your friends get Nokia WP7 phones. Keep a close eye on the deals being offered. I predict heavy, early discounting plans as spoilers to combat the iPhone and Android devices - Microsoft's usual plan of attack. It is a foregone conclusion that this will happen, and equally obvious what effect this will have on Nokia's brand - already tainted by association.

It's a perfect storm.
 
G58 said:
It's far too early on a Monday morning for comedy. But if you're still in the mood for funnies come Friday evening I'm sure you'll find somewhere with an open mic night.

The timescale is open right now, but if you're a betting man... The OS is supposedly ready, and presumably Nokia have some devices either already released or in development. So if the fruits of this unholy marriage haven't made a dint in the market within 12 months, I consider my prediction will be much closer to a dead sert.

And believe me, 12 months on top of the FOUR YEARS since the iPhone was announced [in which Nokia have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING], is a hell of a long time in any business, but in technology - it's a lifetime.

Watch that stock price. Watch how many of your friends get Nokia WP7 phones. Keep a close eye on the deals being offered. I predict heavy, early discounting plans as spoilers to combat the iPhone and Android devices - Microsoft's usual plan of attack. It is a foregone conclusion that this will happen, and equally obvious what effect this will have on Nokia's brand - already tainted by association.

It's a perfect storm.
Click to expand...
You must be new.
The OS is already released.
Samsung, LG and HTC already have had WP7 devices on the market since November. I own a Samsung Focus... great phone.

Nokia has lost market share during the last 4 years, but they managed to still hold onto the #1 spot.

Nokia builds quality phones (their OS just sucked), so I won't count them out anytime soon.
 
G58 said:
It's far too early on a Monday morning for comedy. But if you're still in the mood for funnies come Friday evening I'm sure you'll find somewhere with an open mic night.

The timescale is open right now, but if you're a betting man... The OS is supposedly ready, and presumably Nokia have some devices either already released or in development. So if the fruits of this unholy marriage haven't made a dint in the market within 12 months, I consider my prediction will be much closer to a dead sert.

And believe me, 12 months on top of the FOUR YEARS since the iPhone was announced [in which Nokia have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING], is a hell of a long time in any business, but in technology - it's a lifetime.

Watch that stock price. Watch how many of your friends get Nokia WP7 phones. Keep a close eye on the deals being offered. I predict heavy, early discounting plans as spoilers to combat the iPhone and Android devices - Microsoft's usual plan of attack. It is a foregone conclusion that this will happen, and equally obvious what effect this will have on Nokia's brand - already tainted by association.

It's a perfect storm.
Click to expand...

I'm sure you're right. Microsoft and Nokia will soon be filing for bankruptcy. Maybe Apple will go down the tubes without Jobs too.
 
rjohnstone said:
You must be new.
The OS is already released.
Samsung, LG and HTC already have had WP7 devices on the market since November. I own a Samsung Focus... great phone.

Nokia has lost market share during the last 4 years, but they managed to still hold onto the #1 spot.

Nokia builds quality phones (their OS just sucked), so I won't count them out anytime soon.
Click to expand...

New? New to what? I've been in business for 35 years and bought my first mobile phones in 1987.

Nokia sells mobile phones all over the world. The majority of their range are low level 'feature' phones. The majority of their market is in the developing world.

However, the future for the mobile phone industry is in high end devices with touch screens - 'smartphones'. This much is obvious. It was obvious to the smartest observers in January 2007. It certainly should have been obvious to everyone in the industry. But Nokia and RIM persisted with outdated solutions. Being smaller and less diversified, RIM is dying quicker. Nokia can't rely on Abdul in Mombassa to buy their phones forever, especially with Chinese players marketing directly to him at vastly lower prices.

Being number one in terms of volume is a meaningless statistic. Being number one in terms of revenue even, in such a diverse industry, has little credibility, or hope of longevity, if a former non-player with one advanced product, a far superior operating system, and an ecosystem designed to supply need, can lead industry trends. It's a clear portent of disaster for the incumbent OEM.

Nokia was my favourite mobile phone manufacturer. I owned nothing but Nokias for more than 10 years. Then they gave me the N95 and called it a 'smartphone'. I was insulted, disgusted, frustrated and disappointed on a daily basis and couldn't wait for Apple to release a phone, as I predicted they would way back in 2005.

I don't care who else has decided to suckle on Microsoft's OS mythology. If you want to know how serious MS is about mobile phones and how well they understand the market - its users, look at Project Pink, or Kin: its official name when it was released to an underwhelmed world. The 43 people who bought Kin devise [mostly fat girls who live with cats] hardly represented the market. But if you're still not convinced, watch the dangerously irresponsible marketing ads. The lawyers did!

If you want to know how well MS understands users' needs in terms of an infrastructure, look at the painfully horrible debacle that was: Plays For Sure.

If you want to know how well Microsoft supports a mobile operating system, look at the previous one they allowed to wither on the vine.
 
G58 said:
If you want to know how well MS understands users' needs in terms of an infrastructure, look at the painfully horrible debacle that was: Plays For Sure.

If you want to know how well Microsoft supports a mobile operating system, look at the previous one they allowed to wither on the vine.
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Hardware makers' partnerships with Microsoft never end well for the hardware makers.

You'd think they would have learned by now.
 
SmokeyRobinson said:
Dell, HP, Acer, ASUS... all bankrupt
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In memoriam: Microsoft’s previous strategic mobile partners

icrosoft’s new “strategic partnership” with Nokia is not its first. For a decade the software company has courted and consummated relationships with a variety of companies in mobile and telecom. Here are the ones I can remember:

LG. In February 2009 Microsoft Corp. signed a multiyear agreement for Windows Mobile to be included on devices from LG Electronics Inc. LG would use Windows Mobile as its “primary platform” for smartphones and produce about 50 models running the software.

What happened? LG made a few Windows Mobile devices but with WinMo uncompetitive, they abandoned the platform and moved to Android losing years of market presence and all their profits.


Motorola. In September 2003, Motorola and Microsoft announced an alliance. “Starting with the introduction of the new Motorola MPx200 mobile phone with Microsoft Windows Mobile software, the companies will collaborate on a series of Smartphone and Pocket PC wireless devices designed to create a virtual “remote control” for the Web-centric, work-centric, always-on-the-go mobile professional.” In addition, the alliance includes cooperation on joint marketing and wireless developer programs.

What happened? Motorola launched a series of Windows Mobile phones culminating in the Motorola Q “Blackberry killer”. As Motorola hit the rocks in profitability new management reached for the Android liferaft. The company now relies exclusively on the Droid franchise.


Palm. In September 2005 Palm and Microsoft announced a strategic alliance to “accelerate the Smartphone market segment with a new device for mobile professionals and businesses. Palm has licensed the Microsoft Windows Mobile operating system for an expanded line of Treo Smartphones, the first of which will be available on Verizon Wireless’ national wireless broadband network.”

What happened? Palm shipped a few Windows Mobile, famously dismissing Apple’s potential entry as something “PC guys” could never achieve. A new CEO, a private placement and an acquisition later the company is a division of HP making its own operating system.


Nortel. When Steve Ballmer was famously laughing at the iPhone and saying that he likes the Windows Mobile strategy “a lot” he was sitting next to the then-CEO of Nortel (Mike Zafirovski formerly of Motorola) with whom the company had just closed a strategic deal. ”an alliance between Microsoft and Nortel announced in July 2006 … includes three new joint solutions to dramatically improve business communications by breaking down the barriers between voice, e-mail, instant messaging, multimedia conferencing and other forms of communication”.

What happened? Nortel declared bankruptcy two years later.


Verizon. In January 2009 “Verizon Wireless has selected Microsoft Corp. to provide portal, local and Internet search as well as mobile advertising services to customers on its devices. The five-year agreement will go into effect in the first half of 2009 when Microsoft Live Search is targeted to be available on new Verizon Wireless feature phones and smartphones.” The deal would ensure Bing distribution to all of Verizon’s smartphone customers.

What happened? Bing did ship on some devices but in October 2009 Droid came to Verizon.


Ericsson. In September 2000, “Ericsson and Microsoft Corp. today launched Ericsson Microsoft Mobile Venture AB. This previously announced joint company will drive the mobile Internet by developing and marketing mobile e-mail solutions for operators. The first solutions are expected to be on the market by the end of the year. The company is part of a broader strategic alliance between Ericsson and Microsoft”

What happened? Ericsson divested itself of the mobile division forming a joint venture which would go on and make more strategic alliances with Microsoft over Windows Mobile culminating in a loss of profits and eventual flight to Android.


Sendo. In February 2001, Microsoft announced a partnership, in which Microsoft bought $12m of Sendo shares and a seat on the board. Sendo was to be Microsoft’s “go to market partner” for the Stinger smartphone platform that would become Smartphone 2002.

What happened? Sendo after litigating IP issues with Microsoft went bankrupt in 2005.
And finally,

Nokia. No, not this OS deal, but in August 2009 ”The worldwide leader in software and the world’s largest smartphone manufacturer have entered into an alliance that is set to deliver a groundbreaking, enterprise-grade solution for mobile productivity. Today, Microsoft Business Division President Stephen Elop and Nokia’s Executive Vice President for Devices Kai Öistämö announced the agreement, outlining a shared vision for the future of mobile productivity. This is the first time that either company has embarked on an alliance of this scope and nature.”

The plan was to bring “Microsoft Office Mobile and Microsoft business communications, collaboration and device management software to Nokia’s Symbian devices.”

What happened? One and a half years later the same Stephen Elop announced that Symbian will be deprecated.
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