Gotta love this narrow point of view. There is something called "the rest of the world" It is where iPhone hasn't been made available to them. To MOST of the people from there, the only reason for hacking is to unlock it. They just want to get to use it, let alone being able to install 3rd party apps.
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Now That the iPhone is on Tight Lockdown, is anyone going to buy them anymore?
- Thread starter TheSpaz
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Gotta love this narrow point of view. There is something called "the rest of the world" It is where iPhone hasn't been made available to them. To MOST of the people from there, the only reason for hacking is to unlock it. They just want to get to use it, let alone being able to install 3rd party apps.
You are practicing what you are preaching and yet you don't even realize it. How is it any less narrow minded to be concerned about those overseas who have not yet had this device made available to them?
Re-read the post that you quoted, that post is almost spot on and I laugh at the small minority of people who think that the majority of the world is watching this with a magnifying glass, waiting, hoping that the iphone will come to then. Dream on kid, most people have significantly more important things to attend to in their daily lives than the situation regarding unlocked software for the iphone.
Now That the iPhone is on Tight Lockdown, is anyone going to buy them anymore?
Yes.
1 Million and counting......
And I bet most of those were sold even before the first software unlock/app installer was made available.
I think those on here who think the hackers/unlockers have a powerful voice in this are seriously deluding themselves.
Yes.
1 Million and counting......
And I bet most of those were sold even before the first software unlock/app installer was made available.
I think those on here who think the hackers/unlockers have a powerful voice in this are seriously deluding themselves.
This certainly makes a lot of sense. By the way, don't try to circumvent the profanity filter by using interesting spelling.
I'm truly interested in the iPhone software, but the hardware isn't up to it, as far as I'm concerned. Once the hardware is better, and my current contract is gone, I'd be willing to play by the rules. I really wish that Apple would be more open to change but even in the Apple II days, they were a pain, and I don't see them giving real choice until Steve Jobs is completely gone.
7 Lost
I know 7 people since Friday, not hackers or even web savvy people. Just basic people who don't know much more than cnn, google, and bad myspace pages who were going to get iPhones this month but decided to wait awhile because the negative press and word of mouth that was caused by the iBrick. Even the ones that already use ATT are staying away even though I told them that they would be fine.
I'll put my opinion about future Apple plans in another thread.
I know 7 people since Friday, not hackers or even web savvy people. Just basic people who don't know much more than cnn, google, and bad myspace pages who were going to get iPhones this month but decided to wait awhile because the negative press and word of mouth that was caused by the iBrick. Even the ones that already use ATT are staying away even though I told them that they would be fine.
I'll put my opinion about future Apple plans in another thread.
I'm afraid I have to agree... I have 3 people around me that where going to buy a iPhone each when they saw mine unlocked in the UK. Now all three have decided not to bother because of the lock-in and iBricking
I agree. Don't underestimate the power of negative public perception. And 'iBrick' is about as negative as you can get.
All it took to wreck Newton sales was 'Eat up Martha' on the Simpsons as the product became a worlwide joke despite being the best thing on the market.
A few people in this thread are discounting the number of hackers etc as being minimal and insignificant, but they are the market drivers and leaders keeping the product on the front pages. They've generated 1000x times more excitement and publicity about the product than any of the advertising achieved.
Every single Mac news site for the last six months had positive daily iPhone stories. Not any more. This product's free positive publicity run has now ended and the honeymoon is over. The publicity over the last week has all been negative, ie the 'iBrick'. Even the BBC ran the negative story.
If that negative publicity stops those who were prepared to to buy the iphone and unlock it and use it on another network,from buying an iphone,that negative publicity will suit apple just fine.
As I'm sure thats not the customers apple wants.
I don't think that by me making a phone call to my Wife or listening to some music, or checking the weather that I am "influencing the future".
The fact of the matter as i see it is this:
If the handset (iPhone) is subsidised by the network (ATT / O2 / T-Mobile / Orange) etc, then Apple / The Network have every right to lock down the device as much as possible.
But this isn't the case, they are asking you to buy the phone, full price, then enter a "not so consumer friendly" contract
AND they control every aspect of the device you now own.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
HTC TyTn II / Nokia N95 8gb anyone?
Now if Apple released a £400 that let u use it on any network and install 3rd party apps .... yipee!
If the handset (iPhone) is subsidised by the network (ATT / O2 / T-Mobile / Orange) etc, then Apple / The Network have every right to lock down the device as much as possible.
But this isn't the case, they are asking you to buy the phone, full price, then enter a "not so consumer friendly" contract
AND they control every aspect of the device you now own.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
HTC TyTn II / Nokia N95 8gb anyone?
Now if Apple released a £400 that let u use it on any network and install 3rd party apps .... yipee!
Yes, but Apple doesn't WANT to sell to these people in the first place (or wants to, but currently can't), doesn't PLAN to sell to these people in the near term (until whatever carrier contracts are finalized) and doesn't EXPECT to sell to these people. So those people saying "Harrumph, we won't buy! Watch Apple lose our sales!" is meaningless, because Apple never counted on them to buy in the first place!
The fact that people from, say, Canada were buying iPhones to unlock them, were possibly a nice (insignificant?) pad to their bottom line, but if at the cost of hurting their contractual obligations with AT&T, then that's a trade-off Apple is clearly willing to take, and if YOU were in their position, you would do the same thing.
I am holding off purchasing and unlocking an iPhone until I see what happens with 1.1.1. Maybe we'll get lucky and Apple will actually release the thing here.
The fact of the matter as i see it is this:
If the handset (iPhone) is subsidised by the network (ATT / O2 / T-Mobile / Orange) etc, then Apple / The Network have every right to lock down the device as much as possible.
But this isn't the case, they are asking you to buy the phone, full price, then enter a "not so consumer friendly" contract
AND they control every aspect of the device you now own.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
HTC TyTn II / Nokia N95 8gb anyone?
Now if Apple released a £400 that let u use it on any network and install 3rd party apps .... yipee!
Full price?
What is the less than available price offered if you do not sign on with the required wireless carrier?
This subsidy argument is tired and played out.
Apple gets a cut of your payments to your wireless company.
That is a subsidy in fact if not in name, it just comes a little differently than we may be used to.
If Apple is getting $10 a month, over 24 months, if I had to pay that, my iPhone would have cost me $839.
I'm quite happy to have paid $599 with a 2 year contract instead.
This is why unlocks represent a problem for Apple. By unlocking a phone you are getting an unsubsidized phone at a subsidized price.
My point is very simply that we are all adults. We are free to make our own decisions, but then we live by the consequences of our decisions. Apple has always been very very clear about the EULA on the iphone. If we are somewhere else in the world and choose to import and unlock an iphone, then should be aware of the risk.
2 years ago I brought home from the UK a version of the RAZR with a 1.3megapixel camera and a micro SD slot. It was a year before anything like that was around in the US. I killed it by submerging it while duck hunting. Cingular could not help me. I had to send it to Motorola where it took 3 weeks to get a replacement. Inconvenient? Yes. But I was aware of the lack of warranty support when I purchased this "grey market" phone. I didnt get up on an internet forum and mthr fk Motorola.
I think that part of the problem is that we have the equivalent of "script kiddies" standing on the shoulders of uber-geeks.
Don
p.p.s. A friend of a friend was really into overclocking back when I was younger. The carnage was impressive. It was a challenge to him. He did it to support his desire for a better gaming experience. But he never complained when he fried something.
2 years ago I brought home from the UK a version of the RAZR with a 1.3megapixel camera and a micro SD slot. It was a year before anything like that was around in the US. I killed it by submerging it while duck hunting. Cingular could not help me. I had to send it to Motorola where it took 3 weeks to get a replacement. Inconvenient? Yes. But I was aware of the lack of warranty support when I purchased this "grey market" phone. I didnt get up on an internet forum and mthr fk Motorola.
I think that part of the problem is that we have the equivalent of "script kiddies" standing on the shoulders of uber-geeks.
Don
p.p.s. A friend of a friend was really into overclocking back when I was younger. The carnage was impressive. It was a challenge to him. He did it to support his desire for a better gaming experience. But he never complained when he fried something.
Overclocking can be a blast. I used to do it all the time with that little gem called the Celeron 300A.
But you're very correct in your observations. On the forums where I contributed to and got info from, never in a thousand years would anyone expect any support for their hardware.
As soon as my Verizon contract expires next month I'm buying one. 3rd party apps for me play no role in whether I would buy the phone or not.
Besides, the Terms of Service explicitly states what you can not do with the phone (and touch for that matter). So why be disappointed that you can't do something with it that it says you can't do.
I don't know.
Why don't you ask the sales people at att and apple stores..
you know WHERE sales ARE INCREASING since the price drop?
Honestly. These hacked users are the only ones hacked off at the decision.
Most normal people are having a blast with the the best phone on the market.,
So do answer you question.... Yes. Millions of people will.
Why don't you ask the sales people at att and apple stores..
you know WHERE sales ARE INCREASING since the price drop?
Honestly. These hacked users are the only ones hacked off at the decision.
Most normal people are having a blast with the the best phone on the market.,
So do answer you question.... Yes. Millions of people will.
Thank you for this cogent illustration. Quite right... iPhone IS subsidized, though the structure of the subsidy is different from the conventional approach because Apple was able to use its brand's clout as leverage with the carrier to convince them that they will acquire many new customers because of the assocation with an Apple product and they were right.
The OP also has a great point that the only people we hear pissing and moaning over this issue are a small subset of customers who shot first and asked questions later.
I still plan on buying 
's iPhone. Third-party apps aren't a big deal to me. Yes they would be fun to have but I considered the iPhone for it's features and what it can do for me.
I know TWO other people that are planning to buy the iPhone and to them, the third-party apps aren't a big deal either. As far as I've read into the thread,Apple, Inc. lost 10 people considering to buy the iPhone but gained 3 and I know we're not the only ones that are still planning to buy the iPhone.
's iPhone. Third-party apps aren't a big deal to me. Yes they would be fun to have but I considered the iPhone for it's features and what it can do for me. I know TWO other people that are planning to buy the iPhone and to them, the third-party apps aren't a big deal either. As far as I've read into the thread,
Apple, Inc. lost 10 people considering to buy the iPhone but gained 3 and I know we're not the only ones that are still planning to buy the iPhone.
how many hacked phones?
I find it very interesting that with all the hoopla back and forth about hacking that I have never seen any figures on exactly how many people are doing this.
- The hackers claim 300,000+ people have unlocked their phones which is what? 20 percent?
Seems pretty unlikely to me. I would be surprised personally if the number was higher than 1 or 2 percent, but is there any way to tell? And how about third party apps?
Does anyone know if there are any numbers on this anywhere?
I find it very interesting that with all the hoopla back and forth about hacking that I have never seen any figures on exactly how many people are doing this.
- The hackers claim 300,000+ people have unlocked their phones which is what? 20 percent?
Seems pretty unlikely to me. I would be surprised personally if the number was higher than 1 or 2 percent, but is there any way to tell? And how about third party apps?
On a site like this one, you'll always see the hacker crowd over-represented compared to the general population.
Unlocks as opposed to hacking or adding apps to an AT&T activated iPhone should be teased out, though.
My opinion is that Apple doesn't really care about the latter but seriously cares about the former. That's just speculation though. I don't particularly care for hacks because I think it invites security issues and customer service problems and ends up costing Apple money and in turn ends up costing its customers and share holders money when they have to deal with it.
I don't think anyone has a good idea what the numbers are though.
If someone wants to claim they do know, let's see the data.
I have hacked modified many, many different electronics devices over the years. It is always a risk versus reward for me. In some cases it is fun to muck around and the device is inexpensive enough that damaging it is a non-issue. In other cases the benefit from modification is such that it outweighs potentially having to buy a new item if you damage it.
In a lot of cases, the risk is not worth the reward. IE for me with the iPhone. There was no modification or hack that really had the least bit interested. Most of the things I would not have done/used even if they were authorized, so I certainly would not risk my phone to use them. I am long past my days of enjoying the hack for the sake of the hack.
To be honest I am not surprised by this at all. I thought it was always likely for Apple to allow people to circumvent the original structure and then use that information to make adjustments.
Anyone who decided to mod their phones and suffer from it get what you get. If the risk was worth the reward, then there you have it, no big deal. If it was not, then you should probably stop messing around with electronics and used them as prescribed because you do not know what you are doing. I know people who make the hacks like to make them easy to use, so you end up with all kinds of installers and tools that make things easy. The problem is even if with these tools and installers you are still hacking the phone, and still susceptible to the exact same risk as if you developed the hack yourself.
In a lot of cases, the risk is not worth the reward. IE for me with the iPhone. There was no modification or hack that really had the least bit interested. Most of the things I would not have done/used even if they were authorized, so I certainly would not risk my phone to use them. I am long past my days of enjoying the hack for the sake of the hack.
To be honest I am not surprised by this at all. I thought it was always likely for Apple to allow people to circumvent the original structure and then use that information to make adjustments.
Anyone who decided to mod their phones and suffer from it get what you get. If the risk was worth the reward, then there you have it, no big deal. If it was not, then you should probably stop messing around with electronics and used them as prescribed because you do not know what you are doing. I know people who make the hacks like to make them easy to use, so you end up with all kinds of installers and tools that make things easy. The problem is even if with these tools and installers you are still hacking the phone, and still susceptible to the exact same risk as if you developed the hack yourself.
I'll stand on your shoulders here and mention that you've saved me a lot of time and thought with your comments in this particular thread. I could focus, instead, on my french toast and coffee. You sir, have hit numerous nails with your hammer.
In answer to the OP's question: Yes.
The only reason I've been delaying a purchase is to decide if I want to hold out for a Rev. B, which is what I do with just about every Apple product. Ya' see, what I do is I actually read what the limitations are, then I decide if I can live with them. If I can live with the well advertised limitations I make the purchase. If I can't live with them I then get to decide if I want to wait for the product to change, or to purchase something else entirely. I have yet to NEED an Apple product, so I choose to wait awhile and see what happens.
I know it sounds crazy, but I guess I take that whole caveat emptor thingy as a kind of personal responsibility. If everyone put a bit more energy into shopping before buying, and maybe exercised a modicum of patience, there might be a few less impulse Switchers, and a lot fewer impulse Bitchers.
I didn't know that was a model or subsidisation, thanks for informing me, in that case i guess it comes down to personal preference:
If you want a good internet device with poor conectivity (no 3g etc) and argubly the best navigation of any mobile device, very sexy looking and a awesome ipod then the phone is for you, if you are not bothered with MMS etc.
If you want a phone with good connectivity, mms, video calling etc. etc. look elsewhere.
I guess it comes down to what the individual needs, personally i need the connectivity of 3.5G on my Nokia N95 for my travels on my laptop + a good camera, MMS so the iphone unfortunately isn't for me.
But i do wish some of the folk here would stop banding the iPhone about as the best phone ever. To some folk (especially in Europe + Japan) it's like going back 6 years.
If you want a good internet device with poor conectivity (no 3g etc) and argubly the best navigation of any mobile device, very sexy looking and a awesome ipod then the phone is for you, if you are not bothered with MMS etc.
If you want a phone with good connectivity, mms, video calling etc. etc. look elsewhere.
I guess it comes down to what the individual needs, personally i need the connectivity of 3.5G on my Nokia N95 for my travels on my laptop + a good camera, MMS so the iphone unfortunately isn't for me.
But i do wish some of the folk here would stop banding the iPhone about as the best phone ever. To some folk (especially in Europe + Japan) it's like going back 6 years.