NVIDIA 8800GT Option for Older Mac Pros Soon?

[snugharbor]

Today, a statement from NVIDIA's Director of PR confirmed that a fix was on the way:

the company is "in the middle of bringing out an upgrade kit based on the NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT solution for all Intel-based Mac Pros." What's more, this upgrade kit "should be out in a few weeks."

OK, It's been close to seven weeks which is more than a few weeks. Where is the upgrade for older Mac Pro's?

T

 

[epkphoto]

Every few days I search around for an update on this NVIDIA 8800GT issue, but I find nothing. I am an original Mac Pro owner as well who is looking to upgrade to the new card. Does anyone have an update from Apple or other sources on this?

 

[relimw]

So.... Anything new, or am I stuck with my overheating ATI1900 card?

 

[MadMan]

8800GT Upgrade card arrived today...

Installed in my 2007 8-core MacPro and can now offer confirmation that it doesn't work.

Was hoping that they would upgrade it to work with ALL Mac Pro's before it shipped... no luck... box says PCIe 2.0 required.

Sorry all, wish I had better news to report

 

[TheSpaz]

Installed in my 2007 8-core MacPro and can now offer confirmation that it doesn't work.

Was hoping that they would upgrade it to work with ALL Mac Pro's before it shipped... no luck... box says PCIe 2.0 required.

Sorry all, wish I had better news to report

We already knew it didn't work.

 

[MadMan]

We already knew it didn't work.

Funny, I didn't see a post from you saying you had tried it with an actual shipping upgrade card?

 

[TheSpaz]

Funny, I didn't see a post from you saying you had tried it with an actual shipping upgrade card?

Oh, I'm sorry... I just trusted Apple... stupid me for believing their claims.

 

[MadMan]

Oh, I'm sorry... I just trusted Apple... stupid me for believing their claims.

Your one line snaps are so amusing... are you trying to boost your post count?

Considering that the ATI 2600 WILL run in a 2006/2007 Mac Pro even though Apple says it WON'T, I thought it was worth a try to install it and then report on it, especially since the last two posters in this thread were asking for any kind of update.

I mean maybe, just maybe, Apple had fixed the "Update" card before it shipped to work with all Mac Pro's?

Excuse me for trying to be helpful and taking up space on your interwebz

 

[TheSpaz]

Your one line snaps are so amusing... are you trying to boost your post count?

Considering that the ATI 2600 WILL run in a 2006/2007 Mac Pro even though Apple says it WON'T, I thought it was worth a try to install it and then report on it, especially since the last two posters in this thread were asking for any kind of update.

I mean maybe, just maybe, Apple had fixed the "Update" card before it shipped to work with all Mac Pro's?

Excuse me for trying to be helpful and taking up space on your interwebz

That's fine. I did not know about the ATI card... my mistake. I just figured Apple knew what they were talking about when they said that it wouldn't work. Thank you for trying it and posting your findings then. Again, I was not trying to boost my count, I was going on assumption and I "read" that it would not work, therefore I did not buy it.

 

[cajuncheese]

Tried installing 8800 GT video card - failed

I have the original Intel quad-core Mac Pro with the 7300 GT and excitedly ordered the 8800 GT. I saw that it require PCIe 2.0, but I couldn't find anything in the product literature that came with my Mac Pro that said what version PCIe I had, so I went ahead and ordered it...

And it arrived..

And it doesn't work. The screen turns black, the computer boots up, but I don't have any video.

Now what the heck do I do ?????

I'm more than annoyed. The whole point behind the Mac Pro was upgradability, and so far in the time I've had it, there's been none. All I can do so far is add memory and swap HDDs, and you can do that with any of the other Macs.

 

[Flies]

test

I just spent 2 hours making a full technical walk-through on how to use the 8800GT with old quad-core MacPro´s.
But somehow this forum-tech ate my answer, when i pressed submit reply... and nothing came through.

Sigh. I am NOT going to recreate that 5-miles long reply.
Anyway - super-short Resume:

My old ( december 2006 ) quad-core mac, 3.0 ghz 4 gb ram

- runs Vista 64-bit.

runs a stock 8800 GT card bought from a local PC-shop without any problems at all.

If anyone wanna know how i did it ( very easy actually) plz let either me or the forum moderators know.
Mb they can dig up my former reply. If they do - plz just replace this post with the long one.

best regards
flies

 

[abacae]

I just spent 2 hours making a full technical walk-through on how to use the 8800GT with old quad-core MacPro´s.
But somehow this forum-tech ate my answer, when i pressed submit reply... and nothing came through.

Sigh. I am NOT going to recreate that 5-miles long reply.
Anyway - super-short Resume:

My old ( december 2006 ) quad-core mac, 3.0 ghz 4 gb ram

- runs Vista 64-bit.

runs a stock 8800 GT card bought from a local PC-shop without any problems at all.

If anyone wanna know how i did it ( very easy actually) plz let either me or the forum moderators know.
Mb they can dig up my former reply. If they do - plz just replace this post with the long one.

best regards
flies

I for one would like very much to know how you did this and the mft. and model of the card you used with success.

 

[cajuncheese]

I would love to know how you did it, too

If anyone wanna know how i did it ( very easy actually) plz let either me or the forum moderators know.
Mb they can dig up my former reply. If they do - plz just replace this post with the long one.

best regards
flies

I would love to know how you did it, too. Actually, if you could be so generous, I think you should disseminate this information far and wide. Apple has really not been good to its user base as far as the Mac Pro goes. It's a great machine, but where's the upgradeability? It has about as much upgradeability as a iMac. It doesn't make sense, when you look at the wonderfully designed chassis. And what are all those PCIe slots supposed to be for.. you can't really put much of anything new in them, just a few more old graphics cards maybe and who wants that.

 

[Flies]

Heh - thank you for the interest

I was like....
hell no, I am not going to spend 2 more hours trying to reprint a post, if the topic is somehow solved elsewhere, or for any other reason outdated. And now I learned, so I will save this reply in Word, before trying to submit.

OK - I had a lot of comments and thoughts too, but if we leave them out of here, I will try to describe what my needs were, and how I got through it.
Its nothing special really - but it works.

As said, my computer is a MacPro quad-core 3,0 ghz - originally delivered with 2 gb RAM and 3 internal hard drives - 500 gb each.

I opened it for the first time in december 2006, so I guess what works for me graphiccards-wise, will work for most other "old" MacPro users as well.
My main reason to run Windows, was, and is, simply to be able to game and play state-of-the-art games. Thats one pleasure we never had with all our former Macs.

I bought a Windows XP 32-bit cd+license and installed everything by-the-book, using boot camp and all that.

Later, I bought 2 more gb RAM, and everything ran smoth in MAC-OS mode.
but in XP-mode i noticed my computer was still recognized to have only 2 gb RAM.

I was told by Pee-Cee freaks, that this was a typical 32-bit prob for Windows. So i went looking for some 64-bit option.
However, wherever I looked, Apple specifically told that Boot Camp would only work with 32-bit Windows.

Then the new Leopard was marketed, which I bought and installed (including the new boot camp). But still the message from Apple was same :
"You cant install 64-bit Windows on your MacPro ".
I tried to google forum-topics and walk-arounds for some weeks without any luck, until i suddenly - end of January I think it was - came across a post from a very helpful person.

Apparently he had bought a new MacPro (late 8-core and all that), and he had taken a closer look at what was on the Leopard Install disc. Inside the disc he had found a folder called something like "64-bit drivers".

He then gave people a link, to where they could download this folder, clearly stating that he didnt know if it would help or work or anything, and he had done nothing else than simly just uploading that specific folder, but he had noticed that people had tried various ways to reach the 64-bit option, and mb this would help the old MacPro owners.

I d/l the folder - went out and bought myself a full Windows Vista Ultimate license, and used boot camp, as usual, to install Vista 64-bit on my 3.rd hard drive. Plz notice that I now had one hard drive for Mac-use only, one for XP 32-bit, and now defining a full hard drive for Vista 64-bit.
I am not sure if this is a part of the reason why i can run the 8800 gt card, but nvm.
I started the install process through my "old" Boot Camp, but when it came to create a drivers-CD, I simply took the full folder I got from this guy, and dragged it on to a blank CD, and burned it, the noob-way.

Then I started the Vista 64-bit install - without any problems at all.
As I rebooted in vista-mode, and the MacPro prompted me for the drivers-CD, I just punched in the newly created CD and crossed my fingers.

After a few more secs (honest : minutes) than usual, my MacPro suddenly came alive. It just started installing drivers like it was born to do so, and nothing went different from the install of 32-bit XP ( same messages and all that).

Cool. I rebooted and started to check my Vista-status.
Yes - it was defined as running 64-bit.
Yes - it recognized all my RAM.
Yes - Vista defined my old MacPro as a 5,9 ranked computer (Vista has this strange "ranking" thing).

So - I tested 3 of my newest games,to see if there was any increase in FpS,
or any other nticeable difference from 32-bit XP on a Mac.

Call of Duty 4 = 10-15 % increase approx + absolutely no change in performance if i cranked every setting to the top. CoD4 however doesnt really have that many settings.

Crysis - at least 15% improvement. Absolutely an improvement I could feel.

Flight-Sim X + Accelleration Pack : Not more than 10% improvement I would say. But i kinda expected that. Flight Sim X got its bottlenecks elsewhere too. speed of hard drive - graphic card etc.




But now I got hungry.
I thought : I own an Intel Machine now. Its neither a Mac nor a PC anymore. So now that I can run Vista in 64-bit, what should prevent me from just buying a stock 8800 GT card from some PC-dealer, and gain the high-praised world of the new Direct-X 10 ? I was especially curious about Crysis-performance.

So I did.

The 8800 GT card
I just told the dealer to give me whatever cheap 8800 GT card he had on his shelf. I got myself this card:

MSI Nvidia Geoforce NX 8800 GT T2D 512 E

I went home and opened my MacPro.
And here is a little hint : When uninstalling my (2-tons heavy-weight) Radeon 1900 Card, I suddenly noticed that in upperleft area - just beneath the 2.nd hard drive - there is a 2.nd power supply for graphic cards ( i guess ?) This I will test in coming days, to see if I can run two of the 8800 card, in SLI mode. Yes I know its said everywhere that the old MacPro´s cant do it - but so far I experienced opposite results -right ?
Also - the old MacPro ( or rather; Leopard) has power-allocation software build-in, I have been told.

When installing the 8800 GT card, you should use the ..hmm what to call it...lowest slot. The slot closest to your Ram-area. The card will at first feel like it doesnt fit, and as if its kinda loose. I just took two matches and placed them in between the card and the bottom of computer. Worked perfect. Card-placement was now firm and tight.

Without further messing around, i just closed the lid and rebooted my MacPro in Vista 64-bit mode. Notice : I did NOT install any drivers at all, I did not change any settings at all...nothing.

It took quite a while before anything happened. I was looking at a grey (not black) screen...then a lot of PC-stuff (weird DOS-language and stuff) rolled by, a fews silence, and then - da-da-da ... Vista just booted up as normal.
Screen resolution was reset though - to something standard-like, i guess.

I continued my perception of my compyter being an Intel-machine - went to *Nvidia (not the manufacturer (MSI)) .s homepage, and downloaded newest drivers for 64-bit Vista computers. Everything installed perfectly.

I rebooted - still in Vista-mode - and now i suddenly had a perfect 64-bit machine, with Direct-X 10 included.

Short performance story ( My reply is getting long i see) :

Crysis + CoD4 : Even 10 % performance increase, compared to Radeon setup. Crysis running in Direct X 10 mode - and what astonished me more than FpS was just the wooow ! feeling of how the graphics ran. Difficult to explain. Runs better.

Flight Sim X : Actually a serious FpS improvement - but hard to tell exat value, since i focused more on cranking the settings even higher than ever before, and still got same Fps.


Ok - I rebooted, and now i wanted to start in Mac-mode.

Apart from what i have seen elsewhere, my MacPro had no trouble at all starting. I got the chime all right - and i could hear everything loading inside. My screen was black though :-(

I have eyeTV set to start up along with the system-start, and suddenly I could hear from the speaker, the sounds from a TV-show.
So - there was a running mac all right - but without a picture.
meeoow.

I didnt investigate / fumble further into various Apple-options.
I just told myself that since Apple was shipping an 8800 Gt card, i called the danish Apple-dealer and got confirmation that there would be some sort of driver-cd included in the package - ordered a card from apple - returned the MSI card to the dealer ( yes - he accepted, contrary to other outlets ...cough) - and reinstalled the Radeon 1900 card.

2 days ago I got a call from the danish Apple-dealer, that the card has finally reached Denmark, but he checked and (no surprise really) there was NO driver or anything in the package. I asked if it was OK for me to test the card, but he said no. Once out of the package = no return.
thats a bit too expensive an experiment for my taste, so i called the local PC-dealer and now I got 3 options :

Solution A:
just keep the Radeon 1900 inside, for MAc-use only ( and thereby accepting that i wont allocate that much power to it), and install the 8800 GT card too.
Dealer told me, he has a DVI switch too, so I can just plug my Apple Cinema Display into this switch and by clicking a button i just control which of the two graphic cards should feed my screen, and i click the button everytime i switch from Mac to Vista.

Solution B:
Knowing that apparently my MacPro doesnt have any probs with whatever graphic card, I buy the most overclocked - high-tuned newest graphic card i can reach, for vista use, and as a bove, still go with the heavy-weight, power-consuming, old, stupid Radeon 1900 card for Mac-use.

solution C:
I hang around these forums, and go with the flow, whining and bitching while waiting until who knows when, for the promised "fix" from either Nvidia or Apple.


The answer - to me - is simle, and definately not blowing in the wind.
I go for Solution B - and will report here in these forums about result.
I plan to fetch my graphic card as soon as the PC-dealer gets it ( I am aiming for one of those cards with 1 GB ram onbard).

Best regards
Flies



P.S. remember to look for that "hidden" second power supply inside.
I am not sure if every MacPro has it.

P.P.S. I think you can Google your way to that uploaded 64-bit folder.
I lost the track unfortunately - but it was a torrent.

 

[diamond.g]

To save you the trouble, you wont be able to get GF8 SLi on the Mac Pro (any model). Nobody has successfully hacked the drivers, and the normal drivers requires nVidia chipset (or southbridge in SkullTrail's case). The GF7 series cards can be used with the hacked drivers though.

 

[Flies]

Thanks for the heads-up

...but I thought that specifically Apple MacPro´s were accepted by Nvidia to use the SLI-enabling BIOS on their system ??....

Anyway,

this wont be that much of an issue for me, since I will be using the two slots and the two power supplies, for running my old ATI Radeon 1900 card ( with lowest power setting possible) for Mac-mode, AND the super-duper card I am able to reach/get working for Vista.

Best regards
Flies

 

[fotofan]

My last Mac Pro

I recently bought a second Mac Pro for home (refurbished 8 core from Apple) because I loved my original Mac Pro at my office. I had read that the 8800 GT card was being added to the Mac Pro lineup, and just assumed it would be backwards compatible, as it is for the PC community. So I planned to replace the 1900 card on my office Mac Pro and on my new one as soon as it was available.
Apple and Nvidia to this day have not publicly made a statement about why they decided not to make the 8800 GT card backwards compatible. It's all third hand info that this might be rectified ( I do not count a quote of an executive on an internet site as a company statement).
In my eyes, the damage has already been done. Even if a backwards compatible 8800 GT card comes out sometime soon, I will think long and hard before I buy another Mac Pro, because I don't feel Apple intends to truly support upgradeability video cards in Mac Pro's, which then cripples it's longevity. That's one of the main reasons I originally bought it.
I think they'll sell a lot fewer Mac Pro's going forward to anyone who has been paying attention. And rightly so!

 

[cajuncheese]

Just got off the phone with AppleCare

I just called Apple Care. I pointed out that the white booklet that came with the Mac Pro doesn't say what level of PCIe it supports and that this information is not anywhere easy to find. They agreed to waive the restocking fee and also to pay shipping costs. So I'm in good shape and will send back the 8800GT as soon as i get the shipping label from Apple.

Having said that, if I had known that the Mac Pro was going to be utterly un-upgradeable, I might have opted for an iMac and just shortened my upgrade cycle by a year or so. Quite a bit cheaper, a whole lot fewer cables, and roughly similar performance assuming basic configurations. I know this is a simplistic argument, but I think you all get the point.

 

[diamond.g]

I just called Apple Care. I pointed out that the white booklet that came with the Mac Pro doesn't say what level of PCIe it supports and that this information is not anywhere easy to find. They agreed to waive the restocking fee and also to pay shipping costs. So I'm in good shape and will send back the 8800GT as soon as i get the shipping label from Apple.

Having said that, if I had known that the Mac Pro was going to be utterly un-upgradeable, I might have opted for an iMac and just shortened my upgrade cycle by a year or so. Quite a bit cheaper, a whole lot fewer cables, and roughly similar performance assuming basic configurations. I know this is a simplistic argument, but I think you all get the point.

Wow, I am suprised they accepted the PCIe version excuse, even though that doesn't matter.

 

[Flies]

The invisible reply

Funny how objects can be viewed from so many angles - or not seen at all.
Or maybe people are just too busy to read my - extremely long - reply, above.
I find it somehow surprising that people first ask me directly in replies, if I could please tell them how to make it work - and after doing so, it seems to me like noone really listened.So - for all the forum-viewers living in the fast lane, ill try to make it short:


Name of this Topic: NVIDIA 8800GT Option for older MacPros Soon ?

Debate: Does Nvidia 8800GT work in older MacPro´s ?

My reply above : YES - it does. Right away.

How-to : There may be various ways. Here is Mine:

A: Install 64-bit Vista (I have no idea if it will work on 64-bit XP).
B: Make sure you install Mac-OS and Vista on each their hard drive.
C: Install your 8800GT card. And btw - any 8800GT card will do.
D: Enjoy your new card with Vista - and use your existing graphics card for Mac.

Items needed for this operation:

A: An extra hard drive. Price depends on your needs and ambitions.
B: A DVI-switch (price in DK; 18 US-dollars). Just tested -works fine.
C: The 64-bit drivers folder, stored inside Leopard for the new MacPro´s.
D: An 8800GT Graphics card of course.


SO - if your hope is to just stop talking and experience the Nvidia 8800GT card on your own MacPRo, the above description will get you there.

BUT - if your hope is more like wanting to argue over and over, why Apple didnt do this or that, I guess the above description could help you as well.

My own - lets call it - "angle" upon all this, is more like questions, rather than complaints:


A:
We have now proven, that hardware-wise, the old MacPro not only runs the Nvidia 8800GT card - the MacPRo even runs it with grace.
The Vista rating system gives an old MacPro an overall score of 5,9.
Thats one h... of a score, compared to other expensive PC´s with same graphics card.

So why doesnt Apple "release" these 64-bit drivers already made, for all MacPro owners to fetch ? ....it really beats me. Cant find any logic or commercial excuse for not doing so.
The only vague idea could be, that consumers might experience that PC-games will perfom more or less equal on ld and new MacPro´s, because of the programming in the games (cant really use all 8 cores to the full).


B:
We have proven that hardware-wise the old MacPro can run not just the 8800GT card from Apple, but ANY (or at least the randomly picked one i chose).
This means that the MacPro hardware-wise is actually REALLY flexible. Just as flexible as any other high end PC - and we have also proven that the 8800GT card really IS backward compatible, even on a Mac.

Why doesnt Apple use this fact in their favour ?

..and ..and..and...i got other questions as well, but ill leave it for here.


Good gaming to those wanting to install the 8800GT card now.
Trust me : you will get the smile back on your face

very best regards
Flies

 

[Zortrium]

D: Enjoy your new card with Vista - and use your existing graphics card for Mac.

That's all well and good, but I think what most people want is to be able to use the 8800 in Mac OS X - you can always go out and buy a cheap PC with an 8800 if all you want to use it for is to play games in Windows.

 

[Stig McNasty]

Thanks for that 8800 installation scheme. It makes a lot of sense, and answers the 'Macs are no good for gamers' shouts. I'll seriously look at this option.

 

[cajuncheese]

Funny how objects can be viewed from so many angles - or not seen at all.
Or maybe people are just too busy to read my - extremely long - reply, above.
I find it somehow surprising that people first ask me directly in replies, if I could please tell them how to make it work - and after doing so, it seems to me like noone really listened.

I saw what you said, and appreciated it very much. I wanted use the 8800GT in OS X, so your solution didn't fit my goals.

Just as a note, I made one observation with my Apple 8800GT card while it was here, that is different from your experience. Just like many of you have said, my OS X booted up normally with the 8800GT in place but my monitor remained black. What is interesting is that with the 7300GT in slot 1, and connected to the monitor, and the 8800GT in slot 2 and not connected to any monitor, OS X also boots up to black.

So, it seemed to me that having the Apple 8800GT in the computer at all, even if it is not connected to any monitor, is enough to interfere with OS X. At least, that was my experience.

 

[diamond.g]

Thanks for that 8800 installation scheme. It makes a lot of sense, and answers the 'Macs are no good for gamers' shouts. I'll seriously look at this option.

IMHO, it doesn't answer the Macs are no good for gaming shout. Casual gamers aren't going to buy a Mac Pro to game. Hardcore gamers really aren't going to buy a Mac Pro to game. Plus you have to buy or steal Windows to play games (and take advantage of the non-Apple GPU's), and according to all here both are supposed to be bad.

Again all in my humble opinion. The iMac is an excellent casual gamer rig. Hardcore gamers won't buy Macs (for gaming), as they tend to build their rigs.

 

[Flies]

He he..

Now thats a reply I can truly answer

I am 120% hardcore Apple-fan.
Got my first SE30 many years ago, and havent changed brand since.

I am also 120% hardcore gamer.
Been playing ever since "Tetris" came out, and have a few international championships in first-person-shooter games too ( together with my clan of couse).

The introduction of Intel-based macs may have killed the cosy but small mac-gaming community, but it sure did introduce a most-wanted option for all the weird mac/gaming-freaks, like myself.

Now we could test our skills in the "big" gaming world.

These days I am the only Mac in a PC-clan, playing Call of Duty4 and BF2 at international level. We had a LAN-party last summer - and during that weekend my Mac went from "tolerated" to "admired".
"Why" is a long story, but right now 2-3 people in the clan are considering a switch in brand. And btw - the above 8800Gt story is a serious part of their considerations as well.

But lets keep track of topic...

Thanks StigMacNasty, I think you read my intentions 100%.

Thanks for the feeed-back Cajuncheese - I am puzzled, because right now I am sitting writing on a MacPro with the 2 graphics-cards installed ( I am in mac-mode right now).

Could it be some sort of power-consumption prob ?
I plugged my Radeon into that "extra" power-outlet inside, and I have no probs. And I do not know your 7300 card, but mb it doesnt have a separate power connection ?

Or have you tried to use the software for allocating power to your various PCi-slots ?

Flies