And that's where the nitpicking comes in because by your interpretation it could be misconstrued as not available in ANY area on the planet. Get real
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Official Complaints Over '4G' Marketing of New iPad Taking Hold in Europe
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And that's where the nitpicking comes in because by your interpretation it could be misconstrued as not available in ANY area on the planet. Get real
I really cannot understand why our American forum posters are so completely blind to the problem Apple's 4G marketing poses in territories where it will never work. Apple make quite a song and dance about this feature in all the local markets and a the small print at the base of an advert basically saying "sorry, won't work apart from the USA" doesn't really cut it.
Most consumers don't frequent forums and are consumers who watch / read adverts. By all means highlight the feature but Apple should be clearer in their advertising.
As someone has said, the UK and Europe are not so litigous as our American friends but we do try to protect the consumer from false and mis-leading advertising. Apple have slightly dropped the ball on this particular point - however I still love my iPad.
Most consumers don't frequent forums and are consumers who watch / read adverts. By all means highlight the feature but Apple should be clearer in their advertising.
As someone has said, the UK and Europe are not so litigous as our American friends but we do try to protect the consumer from false and mis-leading advertising. Apple have slightly dropped the ball on this particular point - however I still love my iPad.
You can quote what the ITU and US carriers think 4G means until you are blue in the face but it won't change the fact that in the countries where people are complaining, HSPA+ is not being marketed as "4G": e.g: from the UK carrier 'Three': (if that link works outside the UK - mobile operators do tend to use regional blocks).
...whereas "4G" is almost exclusively used to refer to LTE, LTE Advanced or WiMax. E.g. peruse this link from Ofcom - the UK telecoms regulatory body.
Some EU countries have 4G LTE networks in place, others (like the UK) are planning 4G LTE roll-outs in the next year or two - and its quite likely that this will see the end of expansion of HSPA+ networks (which are currently far from universal). So if you see a £600 product advertised as having 4G it is perfectly reasonable to think that it is going to offer some future-proofing.
What the Apple site didn't make sufficiently clear (at least at launch date - they've made some small but significant changes to the online specs since this fuss started**) is that the model being sold, in Europe, as the "iPad with WiFi and 4G" will not, and is never going to work with any present or planned network called "4G" outside of North America.
** here's what I cut & pasted into this post from the Apple UK website on Mar 9:
...which didn't really help the "HSPA+ is 4G" argument or make it particularly clear that 4G is *only* available on certain US and Canada networks. Compare and contrast the changes in wording on the site today and the new footnote!
Yeah, the analogy was quite bad, but I was at work and didn't have much time.
I guess it really is a culture and background thing how you see government involvement. My problem is just that there is no way what so ever to get 4G to work in Europe with the current product due to the difference in frequencies. But other products work with 4G. Now if there was a single phone company that offered a 4G network for the iPad (with the US frequencies here), the situation would be different, but there just isn't.
So offering 4G with the current product is just wrong. The frequencies are being used for some time for 4G, it's not like they changed them yesterday.
Apple could have adopted the right ones to offer a real 4G, but I can see why they didn't. But they can't offer it as a 4G as it just isn't a 4G.
But that's something a lawyer might have to decide. Does having a 4G chip for the sake of having it, make the product a 4G? Or does it have to work as a 4G.
By the by, I could also see an American suing over that for gazillions of dollars due to vast personal problems suffered by the product not working as advertised. You couldn't do that in Europe.
It really is a culture thing (and that's not saying it's bad, it's just different .-)
I can help you understand why they behave the way they do. In US, Apple is a religion not a company. Stating that Apple lied to consumers automatically becomes a heresy. Similarly, these people will never admit that anything Apple does might be wrong or even just not perfect.
On one hand I thought it was silly that Apple was advertising 4G in the UK when it appears that the iPad may not be compatible. I know this because at work it was insisted that we advertise this.
But on the other, it's the same price as the iPad 2 3g model so I just see it as 3G with the benefit of 4G in certain places.
If they were charging extra for it then I'd see why people would get annoyed.
But on the other, it's the same price as the iPad 2 3g model so I just see it as 3G with the benefit of 4G in certain places.
If they were charging extra for it then I'd see why people would get annoyed.
And what makes those the "superior" frequencies or "Defacto 4G frequencies" ?
US centric view much ?
No argument with this, but you've got to admit it's a royal PITA trying to deal with all of the various frequencies in the multitude of markets. Here's hoping that one of these days the people in charge get together and hammer it out a bit better so that you can actually have one phone (or other device) that works *anywhere*. Maybe it'll happen in our lifetimes?
For those of you...
...who may have a little knowledge of German (or where Google translation might be helpful) here is a little article from German mobile phone blog Areamobile consolidating the upcoming devices using the term 4G exclusively for LTE connectivity.
If you can't read it, just click through the slideshow to see the devices.
Basically yes - the term 4G in connection with a device name is referred to as LTE-connectivity over here.
...who may have a little knowledge of German (or where Google translation might be helpful) here is a little article from German mobile phone blog Areamobile consolidating the upcoming devices using the term 4G exclusively for LTE connectivity.
If you can't read it, just click through the slideshow to see the devices.
Basically yes - the term 4G in connection with a device name is referred to as LTE-connectivity over here.
Wait. Are you claiming that the new iPad *doesn't* support fast mobile networks the world over? Or are you complaining that the set of networks it supports *doesn't* include 4G LTE?
The footnote is there, precisely to provide the necessary clarity. (And, BTW, the footnote certainly *doesn't* say it's a 'US only feature', unless I missed when Canada became part of the US.
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No. *LTE* only works in North America. 4G is supported in quite a few other places by way of the frequency bands supported for HSDPA+ and DC-HSDPA.
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It really would be an unholy PITA, but it really would simplify things a *lot* if they were to ever actually do it.
I've only *rarely* seen one where they show the car on a *track*. In fact, they always seem to have a disclaimer stating 'closed course, professional driver' as their car zips along a winding country (or mountain) road.
A recent one (though I can't remember the make of the car) shows a pair of the new car, driving side by side at a high rate of speed, one driving forward, the other in reverse (as the voice-over talks about how well balanced the car is). The cars are made to *look* as though they're cruising along at high speed, with no disclaimer to the contrary. I'm pretty sure their car can't *actually* drive 50+MPH in *reverse*?
It could have been the moon. Something touted as a main feature only works if you're taking the next flight to North America.
Why don't you try to read up on what's been said on LTE standards so far instead of making up things?
HSDPA+ and DC-HSDPA has never, ever been advertised as 4G in Sweden at least. Hence, the new iPad does not support 4G in Sweden. Even Apple seems to acknowledge as much in their fine print.
In the mean time, I'm content with the 3G (aka US "4G") speeds I'm getting on my mobile broadband. Here, we have fun complaining when our mobile connections get their monthly allowed bandwidth cut down to only 50GB instead.
We like to complain.
No, they specifically state "up to 4G LTE", because LTE is the fastest 4G technology it supports. They certainly wouldn't say "up to 4G HSDPA+" when it also supports DC-HSDPA and LTE.
Other places where only LTE, not HSPA+ or DC-HSPA, is considered to be 4G. Hence, the iPad that uses it's 4G feature as a selling point doesn't work on 4G networks at all in those places and never will. That's the point of the complaints.
Ok, time to wipe those steamy glasses and see what's really front of you.
This is direct quote from Apple's iPad UK marketing material:
Really really fast is your only option.
The new iPad supports fast mobile networks the world over up to 4G LTE.So you can browse the web, stream content or download a film at incredibly fast speeds. It also works on GSM/UMTS worldwide network technologies, including HSPA, HSPA+ and DC-HSDPA the fastest 3G networks out there. Youll see downlink speeds up to 42 Mbps with DC-HSDPA and up to 21.1 Mbps with HSPA+.
Now take a look at the text in bold. Apple calls DC-HSDPA (as it should be called) a 3G technology. If AT&T and some other US carriers have decided to re-brand some 3G tech as 4G tech then shame on you believing that hype.
Regarding LTE coverage many European countries have vastly superior LTE coverage compared to US. IMHO I find it strange that US carriers can get away with very high pricing and bad service.
That's not true. If I go to the UK, but an iPad, fly back to the US, and get AT&T LTE service, I have exactly what they advertised.
Your entire argument is that the advertisement specifies that just because I say "LTE", I mean LTE right here, and everywhere else you go, or I'm lying.
Which makes it invalid.
I blame the ITU for reclassifying the 4G speeds which opened up a can of marketing worms. Saying HSPA+ is 4G?... what a joke!
I'm not complaining about anything. Merely pointing out the language Apple used. "Fast network, the world over, up to 4G LTE". That's what these associations are taking exception to.
You want to believe Apple is doing the right thing ? Fine, I'm not here to discuss opinions on the matter, such discussion is worthless anyhow. I'm probably never going to change your mind or anyone else's on the matter.
The fact is, Apple now has to "deal" with these guys because they decided small print was "good enough".
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Look at the result. Keep arguing all you want, I have made no such argument. I have merely pointed out the language which is causing issue with these organisations. Again, discussion of our actual opinion is quite worthless as it will lead to endless debate about things we have no power to change.
I personally don't give a damn if Apple go scott free or if they get the book thrown at them. My life goes on either way. There's no reason for me to invest energy in such a discussion with you guys. Keep sweating the small stuff.
I actually the post states that I think that 4G is so complicated that trying to define it specifically is just a waste of time. Complaining about a definition of it is equally pointless.
Take, for example, the Samsung Galaxy S 4G. A T-Mobile HSPA+ phone. Says 4G right in the name, but it doesn't support LTE, only HSPA+. Is Samsung a handset manufacturer or a carrier?
I think you vastly overestimate what cell phone customers actually understand about cell phones. I don't think 4G is well established or understood by the majority of people. I would guess that my definition, that 4G is faster than 3G (whatever that means), is what most people would say 4G means.
I propose that we stop using the term all together and use the names of the actual technologies instead to avoid this kind of ambiguity. I remember saying EDGE back in the day,
Take away the flying back part and you have the situation that localised advertising is based on. Please try to understand that if you advertise some feature it should be available to end user without traveling to other side of the world. If a feature requires a flight to US then it should be clearly stated in advertising or you shouldn't advertise that feature in the first place. This is the way consumer protection works in Europe.
Appearantly, marketed 4G devices aren't following real "de jure" 4G standard.
LTE Advanced (Long-term-evolution Advanced) is a candidate for IMT-Advanced standard, formally submitted by the 3GPP organization to ITU-T in the fall 2009, and expected to be released in 2012. The target of 3GPP LTE Advanced is to reach and surpass the ITU requirements.[11] LTE Advanced is essentially an enhancement to LTE.
That is, appearantly there isn't any LTE Advanced device yet.
The pre-4G technology 3GPP Long Term Evolution (LTE) is often branded "4G-LTE", but the first LTE release does not fully comply with the IMT-Advanced requirements.
Sprint Nextel has begun using Mobile WiMAX, as of September 29, 2008 branded as a "4G" network even though the current version does not fulfil the IMT Advanced requirements on 4G systems.[19]
In short, we are being deceived by manufacturers...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3GPP_Long_Term_Evolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4G
