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Well, they do. The whole notion of an MS "fan" is a complete contradiction. Fans of what? Office? Windows (LOL)? Exchange? WGA? Songsmith? The activation process?

No, most of these lost souls are fans of hardware that have no choice but to turn to Winblows if they want to continue building and tweaking their systems and play games. So they're defending the only real choice open to them.
DirectX is pretty nice and defiantly something to be a fan of. The Visual Studio suite is another awesome thing from microsoft... and what is wrong with exchange?

The same could be said for apple..... Oh wow, iLife is so great!? Sweet a photo manager that is comparable to multiple free tools on the internet.. Oh, but there is also garage band... which again can be replaced by better free apps..... iWeb, yeah lets create some outdated html templates!

iWork? The "office" suite that can hardly be used with any business as it is only sort of compatible (exporting/importing docx is not 100% compatible)

iTunes? The stupid softwre that won't let me manage my own music and always has to show its ugly face?
 
Apple is in a very unique position of the consumer electronic world. It produces and controls both its consumer hardware and consumer software for 30 years, no consumer electronic company can match this. Google has little experience in desktop software and new in OS, zero experience in hardware, yes it has a deep pocket, but it does not mean that it can succeed on anything they want to do.

You're correct about Google but way off the mark with Apple. Apple are not in a very unique position. Pretty much every phone manufacturer out there controls both it's hardware and software with the exception of the people sticking WinMo or Android on their phones.

Palm controls it's WebOS. Nokia controls it's three OSs (S40, Symbian S60 and Maemo). Samsung have their own OS in Bada and LG seems to have it's own proprietary OS that is pretty cool too. One of my kids just got an LG GW520 (like a Cookie but with 3G and a qwerty keyboard) and while it's a little slow you do get a lot of software features on the phone for very little money.
 
Yes

DirectX is pretty nice and defiantly something to be a fan of. The Visual Studio suite is another awesome thing from microsoft... and what is wrong with exchange?

The same could be said for apple..... Oh wow, iLife is so great!? Sweet a photo manager that is comparable to multiple free tools on the internet.. Oh, but there is also garage band... which again can be replaced by better free apps..... iWeb, yeah lets create some outdated html templates!

iWork? The "office" suite that can hardly be used with any business as it is only sort of compatible (exporting/importing docx is not 100% compatible)

iTunes? The stupid softwre that won't let me manage my own music and always has to show its ugly face?

Well, Let's take it an issue at a time...

I like iPhoto. For someone who just wants to manage their photos and movies quickly, it's a nice little program and I use it regularly.

iWeb is a total joke. TOTAL!

Garageband is OK for doing casual multitrack. It's no Protools or M-Audio Live but it's ok. But I'm not the best judge as I still "make music" with hardware, ie. my BOSS 1600CD that works for me.

iMovie is nice for a quick family movie (and 1 button click to YouTube) and I use it often - but I keep Final Cut Lite closeby.

I love and hate iTunes sometimes at the same time..It's nice for syncing my iPods and iPhones but my company (and many others) have it on the Blacklist, so I can't install it at work. It is getting a little bloated for my taste.

Exchange works great - so great that Apple licensed it. My iPhone syncs perfectly with my company's email servers and because of it, iPhone is a much better solution than the nightmare that is Blackberry.

And iWork is another complete joke compared to Office. I couldn't exist without Excel - and Numbers looks like a 4 function calculator next to it...
 
tmobile? perhaps the only worse choice than at&t. good luck with that carrier.

I swear sometimes people on this forum have such a narrow view. There is an entire world out there and outside of the United States an unlocked GSM phone is game on nearly every carrier in the business.

T-Mobile, AT&T, & Verizon are so insignificant in the big picture. There is a good reason why this device is a GSM device and that is because they are looking at a global market. It also keeps Motorola happy which has invested a ton of money into Droid and is not a major player outside of the United States.
 
I could see myself using a Google phone if:
Seeing how push notifications haven't been as hugely successful as they might have hoped, and perhaps not as useful as imagined (although still handy in certain situations), I give the addition of background processes for 3rd party apps a green light, but the implementation would be similar to the "tabs" of mobile Safari, where you are limited to a certain number, probably three to five. I also wouldn't be surprised if there will be a similar interface for switching between active apps. Perhaps a three finger swipe down gesture (or similar) to bring down an application switcher. It would zoom out the current app, and to the sides would show other apps like Mobile Safari shows web pages. Swipe and tap to select and switch. It is certain that Apple has to be working on this problem, since it is seen as one of the major drawbacks of the device, and they are most likely rewriting their code to be optimized and save as much battery as possible. In addition, they are probably also looking into advanced battery tech and other power sipping hardware to help this process along.

Push Notifications are really nice, i mean i like them and would love to have them on the Mac too...
...anyway i guess it could be cool to have 3 finger swipes left-right to change the programs, or up-down to reveal the springboard/app menu stuff...
 
Well, Let's take it an issue at a time...

I like iPhoto. For someone who just wants to manage their photos and movies quickly, it's a nice little program and I use it regularly.

iWeb is a total joke. TOTAL!

Garageband is OK for doing casual multitrack. It's no Protools or M-Audio Live but it's ok. But I'm not the best judge as I still "make music" with hardware, ie. my BOSS 1600CD that works for me.

iMovie is nice for a quick family movie (and 1 button click to YouTube) and I use it often - but I keep Final Cut Lite closeby.

I love and hate iTunes sometimes at the same time..It's nice for syncing my iPods and iPhones but my company (and many others) have it on the Blacklist, so I can't install it at work. It is getting a little bloated for my taste.

Exchange works great - so great that Apple licensed it. My iPhone syncs perfectly with my company's email servers and because of it, iPhone is a much better solution than the nightmare that is Blackberry.

And iWork is another complete joke compared to Office. I couldn't exist without Excel - and Numbers looks like a 4 function calculator next to it...

My post was more of a rhetorical/sarcastic stab... Just pointing out that you can make comments on both sides 😉
 
DirectX The Visual Studio suite is another awesome thing from microsoft...
Sure, if you want to compile apps on a super bloated IDE, which often gets additional problems after updates, and which's main purpose is creating Java-like software (with all the positive and NEGATIVE sides of Java)...but only for Windows! Wohoo!

Oh wow, iLife is so great!?
It is, for both new users and experienced users. I use Final Cut Pro yet I often use iMovie for quick videos, for instance. I use Dreamweaver yet I often use iWeb for quick websites. They're just quick and easy to use, and let you create decent works.

Sweet a photo manager that is comparable to multiple free tools on the internet
Yes, but do those free tools integrate with the OS so well? And don't forget that you actually have to download those tools before you can use them.

Oh, but there is also garage band... which again can be replaced by better free apps..
Better free apps? You mean Audacity and downloaded loops or stuff like that? Garageband is not only capable but easy to use.
iWeb, yeah lets create some outdated html templates!
No, it lets you create website very quickly, easily and for free, without needing to know a single line of HTML.
iWork? The "office" suite that can hardly be used with any business as it is only sort of compatible (exporting/importing docx is not 100% compatible)
Funny, Pages 09 is actually more compatible than Word 08 for me. And what if you want a lightweight office suite, which does not break after updates and which is not-bloated? And don't forget Keynote, which, as they say, rapes PowerPoint under every aspect?
iTunes? The stupid softwre that won't let me manage my own music and always has to show its ugly face?
What do you mean? iTunes DOES let you manage your own music, as it does let you manage your movies, podcasts, sync your iPod/iPhone and access the biggest online music store in the world. iTunes is great, on OS X that is.
 
iTunes? The stupid softwre that won't let me manage my own music and always has to show its ugly face?

There is a lot I don't like about iTunes. It's bloated and need a freaking rewrite. However your comment is just a lie plain and simple. That's one thing iTunes does and does quite well. If it's not doing that for your than you don't know how to use the software.
 
I smack fanboys across the face.

Microsoft creates good things, Microsoft creates bad things. Apple creates good things, Apple creates bad things. Google creates good things, Google creates bad things.
 
5:45pm ET: Mario Queiroz, Vice President, Product Management, Google, explains via The Official Google Blog:

At Google, we are constantly experimenting with new products and technologies, and often ask employees to test these products for quick feedback and suggestions for improvements in a process we call dogfooding (from "eating your own dogfood"). Well this holiday season, we are taking dogfooding to a new level.

We recently came up with the concept of a mobile lab, which is a device that combines innovative hardware from a partner with software that runs on Android to experiment with new mobile features and capabilities, and we shared this device with Google employees across the globe. This means they get to test out a new technology and help improve it.

Unfortunately, because dogfooding is a process exclusively for Google employees, we cannot share specific product details. We hope to share more after our dogfood diet.]

From:
http://www.macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/google_employees_get_google_phones_with_image/
 
One reality is always certain:

All UIs try to copy the hell out of Apple.

True. Just as Apple's UI was based on copying someone else's as well. Apple's strength is in doing better than anyone else; just as MS' is in being a very strong fast follower.
 
Notable that is Google having absolute control and phone being sold unlocked from the get-go. Can you say "How the iPhone should have been sold from the very beginning?" 🙄

How the iPhone should have been sold from the very beginning.

The fear wafting through this thread is impressive.
 
How the iPhone should have been sold from the very beginning.

The fear wafting through this thread is impressive.

You could not have said it better. Apple's business model is what makes Microsoft possible. What we need is a Steve Jobs/Bill Gates hybrid. LOL
 
- Sold as an unlocked GSM phone, so in the U.S. T-Mobile and possibly AT&T
- Android 2.1
- Uses Snapdragon chip and is "really, really fast"
- High resolution OLED screen
- Thinner than iPhone
- Two mics, one on the back to reduce background noise
- "Weirdly" large camera
- Touchscreen keyboard
- Voice to text for dictation

With Google's brunt I hope this is the competition we've been looking for. Like any clever company Apple has held off a lot of functionality with the iPhone (Bluetooth management, better camera, file storage, speed to name a few) only drip-feeding us feature updates when the previous model needed a refresh. This has allowed them to have a buffer in R+D and product design. After all, if you throw everything you've got into a product and you don't know what you could improve with the next iteration you could shoot yourself in the foot.

I tire of these "it's what the iPhone should've been in the first place" arguments. Hopefully Google's power and cloud services coupled with Android's 'new' OS will mean Apple is forced to raise the bar a bit.
 
Having played with one today I was highly impressed. I could use it on AT&T too, but 3G didn't seem to be recognized.

Which probably means they left out the ATT 3G bands, similar to what Nokia did with the new N900; which means EDGE only unless Google adds them before release.
 
Maybe this will put some fire under Apple's butt to make an iPhone with a camera flash!

(We don't want Adobe Flash anyway... I hope that technology would die. I'd rather see Microsoft Silverlight on the iPhone).

The Palm Pre was supposed to be the big iPhone competitor, and we all know how that turned out. Apple needs not to be complacent at #1. RIM was and, well, now they are behind.
 
You all keep missing the major point

Apple has its "Digital Hub" strategy which it's been working on for over ten years now. It's a broadly coordinated STRATEGY--not mere TACTICS like this Google phone gadget or even this Android OS.

You have to take broader looks at the various areas and not get stuck into arguing about gadgets. Look at where Apple was before OS X. Look at where Windoze was and how complacent MS has been all along. Google didn't even exist. And what are Google's roots? Advertising.

Apple's iPhone/iPod Touch are far more than gadgets. They're a new computer platform. They came with a unique form of developer support, which included the App Store and its terms.

Despite all the arguing and quibbling you people are so good at, what stands out in my mind are the FACTS of me seeing iPhones and iPod Touches almost everywhere; the FACTS that every one of those people I ask LOVES their Apple product; the FACTS that many of them intend to or already have switched to Macs because of their iPhone experiences. These are things I've witnessed for myself.

We were just at a local Outback Steakhouse and noticed that they had a new placement system in use. The girl wasn't using grease pencil on a seating chart. She was using an iPod Touch. When we asked her about it, she raved about how easy it was to use. Later, the manager told us how pleased he was with this new system.

And of course we've seen the new checkout system at our Apple Store. Beautiful. Elegant.

The main point is that no one is even close to Apple in overall system integration and purpose. It's not like MS's or Google's. It's as Steve has mentioned at every keynote he's given: to make the best products possible. That doesn't mean "perfect". Nothing in this world is perfect. But "good" means something that works well and that people enjoy using and can get excited about using and that enhances people's lives.

This is and has been Apple's way of "thinking different". They've been at it for years, and it's a driving force that isn't about to get stale or boring.
 
True, but there is only one official iPhone. How many official Google phones have we heard about?

That is so true... While Apple contracts to Foxcon and others the finished product is always designed by Apple. In this particular case I would say that HTC did most of the design work on the hardware. It is more like Google chose this particular design by HTC to serve as its "Official" phone. Apple engineers and designs both hardware and software, google does the same but almost exclusively with software. Likening this phone to Google design is like MS Choosing a Dell, Sony, or Toshiba machine to be the official Windows 7 laptop or Apple choosing a Motorola designed phone for the next iphone revision.

Anyhow the next iphone will kick ass or at least it had better if Apple still wants to maintain and grow its market share. With Apple in control of all the major aspects and with its current lead I have confidence.
 
Sure, if you want to compile apps on a super bloated IDE, which often gets additional problems after updates, and which's main purpose is creating Java-like software (with all the positive and NEGATIVE sides of Java)...but only for Windows! Wohoo!


It is, for both new users and experienced users. I use Final Cut Pro yet I often use iMovie for quick videos, for instance. I use Dreamweaver yet I often use iWeb for quick websites. They're just quick and easy to use, and let you create decent works.


Yes, but do those free tools integrate with the OS so well? And don't forget that you actually have to download those tools before you can use them.


Better free apps? You mean Audacity and downloaded loops or stuff like that? Garageband is not only capable but easy to use.

No, it lets you create website very quickly, easily and for free, without needing to know a single line of HTML.

Funny, Pages 09 is actually more compatible than Word 08 for me. And what if you want a lightweight office suite, which does not break after updates and which is not-bloated? And don't forget Keynote, which, as they say, rapes PowerPoint under every aspect?

What do you mean? iTunes DOES let you manage your own music, as it does let you manage your movies, podcasts, sync your iPod/iPhone and access the biggest online music store in the world. iTunes is great, on OS X that is.

Some people just can't understand that most of the users don't need half what MS Office has to offer and iWork for example is very nice little office suite I use almost everyday. Pages, Numbers are more than enough for me and as you said Keynote rapes PowerPoint almost in every aspect.
 
What Google Phone?

This whole thing reminds me of the bogus Microsoft phone rumors.

It seems much more likely that Google is simply using their employees to try out the latest T-Mobile device.
 
It seems much more likely that Google is simply using their employees to try out the latest T-Mobile device.


Not sure about that, Google has announced they are testing some new special hardware.

Sure, Google isn't actually making it, but it looks like they will be pushing the "Google" name behind it.

Either way, this looks like a great device, I'm eager to pick it up...I'm hoping for AT&T 3G band!(if not, they missed out on a big market)
 
Good for Google. I wondered how long it'd take for truly compelling hardware to come to Android. I personally find the UI wanting, but it works well for plenty of people, and it has good development going on. It's nice to see a platform that is by and large competent and worthy begin to flourish. If Android trickles down into smaller, simpler, cheaper devices, it could certainly start to eat a good portion of the smartphone/messaging phone market, and potentially create new customers for more advanced mobile devices. 3G networks are going to have to be seriously worked on, and bandwidth caps aren't going to solve the problem. I wouldn't be surprised if this never shows up with a CDMA baseband. Google could've placated Motorola by speccing a GSM-only phone.

If the GSM Pre2 isn't free with subsidy, then this and the 3,1 iPhone are going to completely kill it, along with Palm. Nokia and RIM are going to have to do a whole lot to make the wider North American CE audience care about their products, too. But they'll fine even if it takes a while, because their lives aren't staked on that demo. WM7 will need to be things it most likely won't be to stay relevant at all. 2010 is going to be interesting. IMO in the consumer sphere, it would appear that the only sure players are iPhone and Android.

HTC's going places. They may not be innovative, but they're certainly putting together quality handsets that are feature rich. There isn't a single person who could argue that the hardware that is supposedly in this device isn't impressive. They made a good bet bailing on most of their WinMo development, too.

Apple's going to step up their hardware, because they want to stay relevant. Their software and VAS are superb, but simply being better to use isn't good enough. If Apple does a well designed hardware refresh and updates OS significantly in 4.0, then Android (and Google, and HTC) are once again a few steps behind. Their release cycles are significantly shorter, however, so it's easier for them to catch up.

As long as the 4th Gen iPhone's hardware is compelling enough to meet or exceed the current generation of PMPs and the next OS release or two fix a good portion of the annoyances with the iPhone, it'll still be the leading platform.
 
Actually, there are a number of different UI's available, some being made by third party developers. The phone is being branded as open, so you are allowed to pick and choose the interface you like best and change it. Manufacturers like their own interfaces, because they feel they best match their hardware set, or further increases the strength with the specific handset.

Maybe I misunderstood or am ill-informed but I've read many times on different tech blogs that it can't be called a "Google experience" phone without the stock Android UI.. but now as evident on the Hero's back'… but now looking at the Droid Eris's back it does have it.. so maybe something chanced.

I actually appreciate this process. I would be upset too if I had to pay for software updates on my G1. So far, the upgrades have all been free. I doubt it has had much effect on iPod Touch users, $4.95 or not.

Google is running an open source project. If you are going to make an OS compatible with many handsets, you have to take steps to make sure it all works right. A nice year long run up to an official Google phone has done well to benefit consumers, carriers and handset makers. Devs got to experience a live environment, Google got tons of feedback, and Android proved to be successful.

What consumer would trust a company that holds all the control over a device and has shown in the past to withhold upgrades in favor of drumming up interest in later models? The answer, ironically, is a lot of consumers would trust such a system. Cheers iPhone users.

My point was if this phone does have a "Real Android" what are the chances older phones get it or hell even brand new ones like the Droid. Secondly, how would owners of phones like the Droid, like the HTC Hero(s) who just bought them months prior would feel about Google.. and is it really possible that Google could be keeping some kind of amazing OS for themselves for the past year?

Part of what Android is here for is to continue the dominance of their search and have more people use their products gmail, voice, etc.. it would really be a pretty foolish thing for them make an Android phone to end all, especially if they think it can compete with a next generation iPhone.

Android's strength is that there is a device for everyone on almost every network, Google if it does have some amazing "real" android would be lowering that down to "Lots of devices running baby Android with one real Android phone" which basically puts it right there with Apple offering one device and I don't think that's a war Google is going to win.

Also, I'm not an iPhone user anymore, AT&T and the other GSM providers in my area are terrible so I got a Motorola Droid which I love, so maybe part of this is I don't want it to look like it's going to be running a secondary OS that might not get support in the future if all the attention will be provided to this "Real Android"'

Another huge hole in this is that if this is a GSM phone that provides only VOIP data (which along with my carrier comment) VOIP only works well over 3G, there is no way in hell it works well over EDGE and unfortunately T-Mobile's 3G area is tiny and AT&T's is fairly unreliable and also not exactly huge.

Is it entirely possible Google might want to sell a unlocked GSM phone? Sure, I think they already offered a G1 for development.. of course this might be pushed more to consumers, but I just highly doubt that it's going to be some insane device with VOIP only, with some brand new OS (pics that just leaked show vanilla Android) or anything, it could very well just be a Google branded Bravo.
 
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