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Oh no...Digital Crown scrolling is backwards!

I turn off "natural scrolling" on the trackpad on my Mac, but I don't see the digital crown as the same thing. Technically, a watch crown has traditionally been used for rotation of watch hands only. So, in order to convert that into scrolling content, it's entirely arbitrary. I personally like the decision to mirror the motion on the touchscreen because the crown sits immediately adjacent to the touchscreen. It's an extension of that screen - the same cannot be said for the trackpad on the MacBook or the Magic Trackpad. Location matters.
 
Julien said:
How well would you like this on your iPhone?:eek:
Click to expand...

I switch off "natural" scrolling on my Mac too. It really bothers me on a trackpad. I'm not sure if the crown will bother me, but since it's an interface that's new to me, rather than one I have been using for years, it probably won't.
 
I just watched the guided tours and having the wheel scroll the other way would have so many problems. It would be the opposite of scrolling on the screen, which would be confusing. Sometimes there's no viewfinder to scroll just a number, like the activity goal screen. In that case you can't scroll based on the viewfinder because the view is fixed. Or when you're scrolling through options for the digital face. That would be bewildering to rotate through rotary-like content in the other way.
 
nathanjbrown said:
I was just watching the Guided Tours on apple.com and something jumped out at me immediately: scrolling with the Digital Crown in the messages app (and elsewhere, I imagine) is backwards. The user in the video is rotating the Digital Crown clockwise (up) to scroll down.

For the attention to detail and expertise Apple brings to new products, this kind of crap annoys me. It makes sense when touching the screen. Hell, I can even let it go when Apple brought the same mindset to trackpads (although I immediately changed that setting). But rotating a physical object in the opposite direction of scrolling makes no sense.

Let's hope for a "switch to flip" in the Watch's settings menu.
Click to expand...

So with the touch screen, if you do decide to scroll (you can do so with a touch or, preferably to Apple, with the crown). Now, if you are pushing the content with your finger as you do on a Mac or iOS...wouldn't it be unintuitive for that behavior to change?

A sudden and yet unexplained switch from pushing content to scrolling the viewing window down (which literally means a break in UI continuity) doesn't really seem all that well thought out...does it? :confused:
 
cmChimera said:
I switch off "natural" scrolling on my Mac too. It really bothers me on a trackpad. I'm not sure if the crown will bother me, but since it's an interface that's new to me, rather than one I have been using for years, it probably won't.
Click to expand...

Same here. Since the digital crown is literally RIGHT next to the screen, it might feel more natural to use the messed up scrolling direction. :D
 
This argument is purely intellectual. Your muscle memory defines what's natural to you. After you get used to it, it becomes natural and you quite literally never think about it again (for that particular interaction).

When Apple introduced natural scrolling, it was 'backwards' for me for about 10 minutes. The whole debate about 'you're moving content' or 'you're moving the view(finder)', is lost as soon as you start using it one way or another.

However, and I'm not being ageist here, as you get older these changes might take longer due to the brain being less 'plastic' or adaptive, so the change might be more difficult to get used to.
 
nathanjbrown said:
I was just watching the Guided Tours on apple.com and something jumped out at me immediately: scrolling with the Digital Crown in the messages app (and elsewhere, I imagine) is backwards. The user in the video is rotating the Digital Crown clockwise (up) to scroll down.

For the attention to detail and expertise Apple brings to new products, this kind of crap annoys me. It makes sense when touching the screen. Hell, I can even let it go when Apple brought the same mindset to trackpads (although I immediately changed that setting). But rotating a physical object in the opposite direction of scrolling makes no sense.

Let's hope for a "switch to flip" in the Watch's settings menu.
Click to expand...

That backwards your are referring to is called "natural" scrolling.
 
Sharkey311 said:
Your video proves that the Apple Watch is inverted. The person scrolls up on the digital crown to move the page down instead of scrolling down to move the page down like what you did in your video.
Click to expand...

Uhhh... What?

I pushed up on the paper. The paper went up. I pushed up on my phone... The page content went up. You push up on the digital crown just like the paper and phone and the content move up bringing you the lower content.

 
On this page, to view the content that is hidden below the screen, and if you are using a scroll wheel on a mouse, which direction do you scroll? Up or down?
 
I'm more concerned about whether the dial will still use natural scrolling when I wear it on my right wrist (as a left-handed person), or whether I will have to turn it backwards... I'm pretty used to the natural scrolling on my macbook air, and yet, using my work PC doesn't feel weird either, but I'd like the watch to use natural scrolling if it will.
 
dyt1983 said:
I don't know about age, but I do know that every watch I've had with a digital crown in the past 15 years has had the scrolling work in the direction Apple shows in the video you mentioned. I'm an old school (anti-natural scrolling) guy on the mouse/trackpad directions, but the phone and crown seem "correct" to me. Plus 15+ years of input device norms for digital crowns backs this up.

(Not sure why Apple calls the digital crown "revolutionary", maybe it was a long time ago.)
Click to expand...

I'll admit to owning no watch of any kind since 1995 (and that was a cheap Timex). So perhaps this is something for me to learn.

That said, the UI in my car scrolls "backward" too and, after a year, it's still unnatural to me.

----------
KauaiBruce said:
I think it is funny that anyone is arguing for the same behavior as a PC mouse wheel.
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Not arguing for the behavior of a PC mouse. Arguing for an established input device norm. Not that I don't appreciate progress, but how is inverting the behavior of a scroll wheel progress? It's just different to be different. Touch and scroll are totally different methods by which to interact with a UI.
 
nathanjbrown said:
Not that I don't appreciate progress, but how is inverting the behavior of a scroll wheel progress? It's just different to be different. Touch and scroll are totally different methods by which to interact with a UI.
Click to expand...

I don't think a unified plan of how a UI should work is "different to be different".
 
Sharkey311 said:
On this page, to view the content that is hidden below the screen, and if you are using a scroll wheel on a mouse, which direction do you scroll? Up or down?
Click to expand...

You are mixing Apples and Freight Trucks.

The mouse wheel is no where near my computer screen. If I was reaching up to the screen to press something I would expect the same behavior as the new Watch.

I am ok with the mouse wheel working the way it does because I am used to it but I remember thinking it was backwards when I first got one.
 
I made myself give "backwards" scrolling a good chance as soon as the feature came to OS X... with my logitech mouse that has a regular scroll wheel. After a week or so it felt right, and now any time I use someone else's computer that has regular old scrolling, it feels completely wrong. Backwards scrolling really does feel natural once your brain gets over the feeling of "that's wrong"
 
nathanjbrown said:
You know who calls it that? Apple.
Click to expand...

Put a newspaper in front of you on the table. Fixate your eyes in 1 spot. Start reading the paper. You push the paper away from you (up) when you want to read lines lower on the page. That is as natural as it gets.
 
Sharkey311 said:
Your video proves that the Apple Watch is inverted. The person scrolls up on the digital crown to move the page down instead of scrolling down to move the page down like what you did in your video.
Click to expand...

no it doesn't.
The watch behaves exactly the same way.

The content you see slides up, just as the page does.
 
It's just occurred to me that my brain is unconsciously associating scrolling with the scrollbar (which makes sense given that the scrollbar was a dominant UI element back in the day...it's still there today, but less prominent). Scrolling the wheel on a mouse DOWN moves the scrollbar down the screen (the content being viewed goes up). Hmmmm...perhaps it's time for me to swap the scroll direction on all my machines in an effort to find comfort with something new.
 
nathanjbrown said:
It's just occurred to me that my brain is unconsciously associating scrolling with the scrollbar (which makes sense given that the scrollbar was a dominant UI element back in the day...it's still there today, but less prominent). Scrolling the wheel on a mouse DOWN moves the scrollbar down the screen (the content being viewed goes up). Hmmmm...perhaps it's time for me to swap the scroll direction on all my machines in an effort to find comfort with something new.
Click to expand...

I was a Windows guy for over 15 years. I switched to Mac only a couple of years ago and got used to the natural scrolling option.
 
nathanjbrown said:
It's just occurred to me that my brain is unconsciously associating scrolling with the scrollbar (which makes sense given that the scrollbar was a dominant UI element back in the day...it's still there today, but less prominent). Scrolling the wheel on a mouse DOWN moves the scrollbar down the screen (the content being viewed goes up). Hmmmm...perhaps it's time for me to swap the scroll direction on all my machines in an effort to find comfort with something new.
Click to expand...

It makes sense when you are scrolling with something you touch (like track pads and magic mouse) but it stops making sense when you have a physical wheel. In this case, it could be one of a number of metaphors. If it's the pin in the top roll of a scroll (which I think works well for the watch crown) then it makes sense for it to work like the watch.

However, if it was a rubber wheel sitting on a paper and anchored with an axle floating above the paper, when you pushed "up" on the TOP of the wheel, the bottom of the wheel would grab the paper and push it "down."

So I wouldn't make any real metaphor-based arguments for a physically spinning mouse wheel/ball.

But since the crown is where it is, and it is so close to the screen, and the metaphor of being the pin of the top of a scroll... gonna have to put my vote in for the way Apple doing it here makes sense, just like it does on touch pads (imagine the mouse cursor is where you're touching the "paper" of the screen, and you're pushing it around) and touch screens. Magic mouse slightly more gray area for me.

TBH, I haven't used a physical mouse wheel in years. I can't even understand how people can stand using desktop OS's without extremely simple 360º scrolling and a mouse wheel doesn't get you that.
 
As someone who disables "natural scrolling" on their laptop trackpads, I will say I agree with the way the Apple watch has it set up. The proximity of the crown to the screen makes it seem natural this way.
 
Even if this is "backward", which is most likely very subjective, we'll all get used to it after about three minutes.
 
nathanjbrown said:
I was just watching the Guided Tours on apple.com and something jumped out at me immediately: scrolling with the Digital Crown in the messages app (and elsewhere, I imagine) is backwards. The user in the video is rotating the Digital Crown clockwise (up) to scroll down.

For the attention to detail and expertise Apple brings to new products, this kind of crap annoys me. It makes sense when touching the screen. Hell, I can even let it go when Apple brought the same mindset to trackpads (although I immediately changed that setting). But rotating a physical object in the opposite direction of scrolling makes no sense.

Let's hope for a "switch to flip" in the Watch's settings menu.
Click to expand...


actually it makes perfect sense the way its being used. I think your mindset of the view is a little construed. its not really "scrolling down", its pushing the content on the screen up. Me personally, I would want the screen to reflect my motion & my intention.

its like rotating the crown on a regular watch. rotating forward (or up, if you are looking directly at the face) pushes the hands clockwise (or forward). Rotating it backwards (or down) pushes the hands counter-clockwise (or backwards). Forward turn for forward motion, backward turn for a backward motion.

Why would it be any different on this watch?
 
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