OiNK Raided and Owner Arrested.

[Eric Piercey]

How you feel isn't for me to decide - that's your choice. I'll only try and provide you with accurate facts to help you make that decision

Not everyone that downloads music is some "leeching cheapskate" - One of my dad's friends - a guy in his 50's - he buys dozens, probably hundreds of cd's a year. Yet he still downloaded music from oink. Why? It's easier to download music in FLAC or mp3 V0 (a lossless audio format) then rip dozens, hundreds of cd's a year. Not to mention there's more to producing good rips of cd's then just putting it in the drive and hitting "Import" in iTunes

If you want quality, you download music. iTunes does not provide decent quality music - Just because the iPhone headphones don't show the difference, doesn't mean the difference isn't there for audiophiles, or someone with a half-decent sound system.

lol- whatever man are you seriously going to sit here and advocate that the music you DL at iTunes is worse quality than that you get from an illegal file sharing site? Hi zero quality control. I agree the world is all kinds of ef'ed up, with fat record execs killing the real music and I don't mind the idea of people stealing from them. Musicians in todays digital era have no excuse for signing with the fat cats anyway. It's cheap to produce and distribute, but I'm completely digressing.

 

[0098386]

You have said everything that needs to be said.

Agreed too.

As a developer myself I'm flat out against piracy, but OiNK and various other sites (including some music analysing app on OSX, name escapes me) offer a great service to find new music. If I ever liked a band on such sites and they make it big I'll buy their albums I downloaded.

A friend whos band I used to be in is doing the same thing. Upload his music to torrent sites whilst he floats around looking for a record deal.

As for music stores themselves, Manchester seems to have a lot of them on Oldham Street. I even did some work experience for a small label once and the small record industry here, whilst not thriving, is certainly in it for the long run.

 

[Blue Velvet]

A friend whos band I used to be in is doing the same thing. Upload his music to torrent sites whilst he floats around looking for a record deal.

And when he's got that record deal? None of that will be given away for free anymore... it's a model that works for either ends of the spectrum; those who are trying to establish themselves and those who have got enough money to not care anymore.

 

[NoOneButMe]

I wouldn't know. Or care... I don't buy music like that.

And a production chain is essential for most artists. If you're the White Stripes, sure get some geezer in East London with an 1 inch, 8 track... but you still need the bloke who knows how to run the equipment, the people that know how to master, the people that carry Meg's kit, etc. Plus a manager and admin that's going to take care of your bookings and bail you out when you're caught with some weed in Norway.

Music is an industry; unless you're a singer-songwriter with just a guitar or similar instrument and you're busking, you're going to need support staff of some sort. These things don't come out of thin air.

An artist doesnt need thousands of dollars of equipment to record. They dont need someone to carry their equipment. They can book their own shows. They can stay in jail for a week like someone else would. of the things you listed, none of them are required in a modern era.

Like i said. Open your eyes and see the modern world. Don't be a stubborn, closed-minded fool and stay in the past.

This is truly a sad day for the community. For those who were active members, we all knew what a tight and great community it was. Anyone know the irc channel?

It was irc.oink.cd.. doesnt work now

lol- whatever man are you seriously going to sit here and advocate that the music you DL at iTunes is worse quality than that you get from an illegal file sharing site? Hi zero quality control. I agree the world is all kinds of ef'ed up, with fat record execs killing the real music and I don't mind the idea of people stealing from them. Musicians in todays digital era have no excuse for signing with the fat cats anyway. It's cheap to produce and distribute, but I'm completely digressing.

iTunes gives you 128kbps AAC rips. A FLAC rip is much much much higher quality. MP3 v0 rip is much much higher quality. If i can download a 320kbps mp3 from a site for free vs a 128kbps rip to pay for, i'll take the 320. And yes, i do buy cd's if i like the album enough.

 

[jaydub]

lol- whatever man are you seriously going to sit here and advocate that the music you DL at iTunes is worse quality than that you get from an illegal file sharing site? Hi zero quality control. I agree the world is all kinds of ef'ed up, with fat record execs killing the real music and I don't mind the idea of people stealing from them. Musicians in todays digital era have no excuse for signing with the fat cats anyway. It's cheap to produce and distribute, but I'm completely digressing.

Given how strict OiNK was about transcodes and bitrates, I'd say they were higher quality. There was far from being zero quality control. I think that people have an interest in downloading high quality music (regardless of source or means), and that is reflected in most legal and illegal download sites.

 

[Blue Velvet]

An artist doesnt need thousands of dollars of equipment to record. They dont need someone to carry their equipment. They can book their own shows. They can stay in jail for a week like someone else would. of the things you listed, none of them are required in a modern era.

Watch who you're calling a fool.

And listen, you're talking like every artist is like some little outfit with a couple of guitars and a van that doesn't need to travel more than 100 miles. Do you think the Berlin Philharmonic, the Polyphonic Spree, Kraftwerk, The Cinematic Orchestra... and virtually any mid-weight act or band doesn't need these things? Then you're the one who is sounding foolish...

Since someone mentioned the Arctic Monkeys, here's the above the line credits for their last album. This ignores the other people that go up to making a studio work and all those involved in transport, marketing, distribution, promotion etc

George Marino — Mastering
Alan Moulder — Mixing
Juno — Art Direction, Photography, Illustrations, Design
Matthew Cooper — Layout Design
Mike Crossey — Producer, Mixing
James Ford — Guitar, Producer, Mixing
Joseph Bramhall — Illustrations
Al Heighton — Illustrations
Miles Kane — Guitar
Ian McAndrew — Management
Drew Millward — Illustrations
Anne Marie Moore — Illustrations
Geoff Barradale — Management

That's 13 people plus band members plus roadies, drivers, a whole host of people setting up equipment... this is an indie and 'small' band. All of you who say they support an artist by seeing their shows, you'd see sweet eff all without a small army of support staff. And all of them need to be paid...

 

[0098386]

And when he's got that record deal? None of that will be given away for free anymore... it's a model that works for either ends of the spectrum; those who are trying to establish themselves and those who have got enough money to not care anymore.

Of course he'll take them down. It's just a way to get yourself known.

That said I get all his CD's for free so it's no big deal for me either way

 

[technicolor]

Footage of Oink getting raided

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QuwwMZKYxag

There will be another site sprung within weeks. Its always a game of cat and mouse, they cant stop piracy.

 

[zioxide]

Footage of Oink getting raided

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QuwwMZKYxag

There will be another site sprung within weeks. Its always a game of cat and mouse, they cant stop piracy.

Wow, pretty much all of the information in that report was false.

 

[Sdashiki]

and just when the leopard torrent was uploaded.....

um, wut?

 

[VoodooDaddy]

Im not going to defend downloading music. Ive done it, most of us have done it. I will say though that Ive heard several artists say specifically they make next to nothing on record sales. All their money is made touring and selling merchandise. So downloading albums isnt hurting artists as much as the RIAA says.

And one other thing, only one person hit on the point that I always argue. 98% of stuff Ive downloaded I would NEVER buy anyway. Most of it is not even listened to more than once, twice at the most. That still doesnt mean its right, but its not record sales lost either because I wouldnt have bought it anyway.

 

[it5five]

Including the douchebag you all were paying fees to remain a member to...

The article was misleading. Nobody had to pay anything to be a member. You could voluntarily donate some money to get a few cool little features early (eventually everyone got them if they seeded enough).

I did donate, and I'm proud of it, because it was an awesome place. There are probably close to 100 or more bands that I wouldn't have ever discovered (and bought the records of, before you try and make some more stereotypes) if it weren't for OiNK.

But go ahead, continue making your sweeping generalizations about everyone who used the website.

 

[EEcuber17]

yeah - someone was on the forums was claiming they were going to upload the gold build of leopard this morning. i go on to check if it's there, and bam - OINK has been shut down. not that I didn't have intention to buy leopard. It's just crazy how it got shut down the morning it was going to leak.

booo...

This reallyreally sucks. Oink rocked for finding about music and getting good quality albums in 360. boo.

 

[Blue Velvet]

But go ahead, continue making your sweeping generalizations about everyone who used the website.

If we saw as much boo-hooing about hundreds of decent music retailers closing down as much as the moaning about a site that actively supports copyright infringement and breaking the law, then I'd have some empathy with your argument, such as it is.

 

[it5five]

Footage of Oink getting raided

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QuwwMZKYxag

There will be another site sprung within weeks. Its always a game of cat and mouse, they cant stop piracy.

That report was probably even more inaccurate than some of the print articles I've read.

 

[weckart]

No one is going to upload the Golden Master of Leopard because it has not been released to ADC developers. Someone in-house at Infinte Loop would have to leak this or someone at the warehouse depots would have to break open a retail copy to do this. Not going to happen. This will not stop comedians pretending, however. Plenty of gullible people with no patience will waste bandwith.

 

[it5five]

If we saw as much boo-hooing about hundreds of decent music retailers closing down as much as the moaning about a site that actively supports copyright infringement and breaking the law, then I'd have some empathy with your argument, such as it is.

I boo-hoo about that too. It isn't a "one-side or the other" type of argument.

There is just a handful brick and mortar stores left in the Phoenix-metro area that sell independent music. Large retailers like Best Buy and Wal-Mart move in and these small businesses can't stay open, and of course these large retailers don't sell good music, so we're increasingly left with no option.

I go to one of those stores very often. Enough for the owner and a few of the employees to recognize me and my girlfriend every time we stop in. They have a lot of great bands whose music you can't find anywhere else in Phoenix. They also have a great selection of vinyl. I don't know where I'd get my music if that were shut down too.

 

[zioxide]

No one is going to upload the Golden Master of Leopard because it has not been released to ADC developers. Someone in-house at Infinte Loop would have to leak this or someone at the warehouse depots would have to break open a retail copy to do this. Not going to happen. This will not stop comedians pretending, however. Plenty of gullible people with no patience will waste bandwith.

It's already been leaked to other torrent sites.

 

[Luap]

Im somewhat on the fence with this.
Maybe im an ethical pirate with a conscience!? Call it what you will..

I do miss Oink. Yes, technically I used it illegally. I downloaded music from there. Guilty as charged!
The difference is this though: If I liked it, I bought it. I've got cd's in hmv and virgin bags in here now that I didnt even open yet. The original Oink sourced files are still on my computer, and I didnt re-rip from the cd's yet.

I also used Oink to get music that simply isn't available to buy anywhere. And believe me, I'd have a good look for it before resorting to Oink.
I live close to London, UK, with some of the best record stores in the world close to hand. If those stores dont have what im willing to pay for, then what hope is there? If Oink has what I want, then yes I'll help myself from there. There is no excuse these days for record companies not to do a good job of making music available to purchase.

The problem with Oink is this.. A great many of its users were in it for all they could get, and had no intention of paying for anything what-so-ever. I checked some users stats more than once, and they were up/downloading several terrabytes of data. We're not just talking a few hundred MB's here.
Piracy really was on an outrageous scale there.

And this does hurt the artists. I know this, as im a copyright holder myself with an income almost entirely based on royalties. I didn't really like seeing material I owned a chunk of the copyrights to appear on Oink. But im just the small guy, and there isn't anything I could do about it.
Anyone that says it doesn't hurt the artists is either lying, or plain doesn't know what they are talking about.
Its all very well saying artists make more money from touring and merchandising than album sales. But you have to remember that not all artists are touring. Plus its hardly any wonder artists make more money from touring than album sales, when folks rip off so much music. But you cant rip off an entire tour.

As it happens, I was reading and posting on the Oink forums late last night.. And yes, some guy was just about to put Leopard there. But I wasn't going to hang about for it, and went to bed instead.
Not that I desperately wanted Leopard, as I have that on order from Apple anyway.

And yes, the news websites and even the police in the news videos have got a lot of the facts about Oink very wrong indeed (Like paying for membership. I never paid Oink a penny)
Given this, and that the equipment the authorities seized will hold little to no illegal material, there is still a chance this whole case could fall apart and that Oink will spring back to life at some point.

Just my 2 mp3's worth..

 

[VoodooDaddy]

Anyone that says it doesn't hurt the artists is either lying, or plain doesn't know what they are talking about.

So I guess the artists that I heard this from, directly out of their mouthes, dont know what they are talking about??

 

[Luap]

So I guess the artists that I heard this from, directly out of their mouthes, dont know what they are talking about??

Yes.
I would guess (with all due respect) that they are newer, less well established artists that are better at being musicians than they are at being aware of how the business side of the music industry works.

 

[Sdashiki]

Yes.
I would guess (with all due respect) that they are newer, less well established artists that are better at being musicians than they are at being aware of how the business side of the music industry works.

my emphasis added.

as has been noted, its not the users that are holding music back, its the industry and its archaic non-dynamic business model.

The Jenga tower was built on vinyl, crowned by 8-track, picked apart by cassettes, built to the heavens with CDs and toppling over with the advent of broadband and MP3.

 

[iHerzeleid]

It's already been leaked to other torrent sites.

you sure about that?

 

[Luap]

my emphasis added.

as has been noted, its not the users that are holding music back, its the industry and its archaic non-dynamic business model.

I absolutely agree.. The music industry big wigs are no saints themselves. They have been greedy and tried to hold on to their old fashioned ways. And this bit them back.
I guess now they are embracing the internet a little more than they did, say 5 years ago. But thats just it, they did it too late and people were already used to pirating music, and largely carried on doing what they were doing uninterrupted.
Oink (plus similar services) and its users are certainly not entirely to blame for the pirate community of today. Its deeper than that, as we now know.

 

[Blue Velvet]

as has been noted, its not the users that are holding music back, its the industry and its archaic non-dynamic business model.

The industry that has bought millions of fantastic albums to the world over the past century and into this one? Where is this mythical undiscovered talent being held back by the music industry?