OMG. Please reserve all judgement on rMBP until you see it in person.

[mykelala01]

Your math is off. 16 GB of RAM for the 2012 MacBook Pros (non Retina) costs $162 at OWC, $175 at Crucial. 500 GB SSD (Crucial) costs $500, OWC SSD for 480 GB costs $509. Using the lowest cost name-brand components I could find would add $662 to the cost of a stock 15" MacBook Pro, which brings the final price to $2,861. A rMBP with identical specs costs $2,999, or only $138 more than the non-Retina model. This is ONLY if you are comfortable doing your own RAM and hard drive upgrades instead of getting the same built-to-order from Apple.

So yes, I'd say the Retina display and thinner, lighter, next-generation platform for only $138 more is absolutely worth every penny.

Maybe right now the price of 16 GB is $150 to $160, and the price of 512 SSD is around $500. But everyday this prices change, maybe I will wait for this prices to come down before I do upgrade. Because I am not rich to justify a purchase of a new rMBP everytime it comes out. That is the benefit of upgredability features. You dont need to shell out $3000 right away.

 

[leman]

Your math is off. 16 GB of RAM for the 2012 MacBook Pros (non Retina) costs $162 at OWC, $175 at Crucial. 500 GB SSD (Crucial) costs $500, OWC SSD for 480 GB costs $509. Using the lowest cost name-brand components I could find would add $662 to the cost of a stock 15" MacBook Pro, which brings the final price to $2,861. A rMBP with identical specs costs $2,999, or only $138 more than the non-Retina model. This is ONLY if you are comfortable doing your own RAM and hard drive upgrades instead of getting the same built-to-order from Apple.

So yes, I'd say the Retina display and thinner, lighter, next-generation platform for only $138 more is absolutely worth every penny.

I am a big proponent of rMBP and I also believe that its a much better bang for buck, but unfortunately, its you whose math is off

Newegg has Corsair 16GB DDR3 1600 SODIMM RAM for $114.99 and Crucial M4 for $399.99. Its around $150 less than what you claim. There is no reason to pay more money to OWC, they overcharge for essentially the same hardware.

You still make a good point though.

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

Again, that's one opinion. I wouldn't trade my 4 year old non-unibody MBP for the MBPR in an even swap.

You're a glutton for punishment.

----------

I am a big proponent of rMBP and I also believe that its a much better bang for buck, but unfortunately, its you whose math is off

Newegg has Corsair 16GB DDR3 1600 SODIMM RAM for $114.99 and Crucial M4 for $399.99. Its around $150 less than what you claim. There is no reason to pay more money to OWC, they overcharge for essentially the same hardware.

You still make a good point though.

Unfortunately for those choosing the MacBook Pro over the MacBook Pro Retina, they will never be able to add lighter weight, retina display, and thinner design as upgrades to their non-Retina MacBook Pros. Just saying.

 

[GGJstudios]

You're a glutton for punishment.

In what way am I being punished by having a MacBook Pro in excellent condition that reliably does everything I need or want it to do?

 

[Chiloé]

----------

[/COLOR]

Unfortunately for those choosing the MacBook Pro over the MacBook Pro Retina, they will never be able to add lighter weight, retina display, and thinner design as upgrades to their non-Retina MacBook Pros. Just saying.

None of the things you mentioned would ever help me to do more with a MacBook Pro, while upgradeable RAM and an upgradeable hard drive would. It's all subjective, of course.

 

[mykelala01]

You're a glutton for punishment.

----------



Unfortunately for those choosing the MacBook Pro over the MacBook Pro Retina, they will never be able to add lighter weight, retina display, and thinner design as upgrades to their non-Retina MacBook Pros. Just saying.

Lighter weight... by what? Point something Oz. come on now its not like I am carrying a barbel weight differences. If its Macbook Air " like weight," I have to agreed with you.

 

[AppleFanatic10]

I've seen it in person. It's nice and all but I'm the type that needs to have a CD drive just in case lol. Plus $2000+ is a little steep for a Retina display MBP... Or maybe I'm just being cheap haha. I'd rather spend the 1500 on a regular 15" MBP.

 

[GoreVidal]

Unfortunately for those choosing the MacBook Pro over the MacBook Pro Retina, they will never be able to add lighter weight, retina display, and thinner design as upgrades to their non-Retina MacBook Pros. Just saying.

Sure, but at least I get to keep my 1.5TB of internal drive space, a larger screen, and far superior speakers. As well as dongle-less ports and an anti-glare screen, which kind of negates the lighter/thinner chassis since I'd have to carry an external drive and dongles around with me to make up for the rMBP's losses. That and the retina is very overrated compared to a 1920x1200 screen on a 17". Just saying.

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No single computer is ideal for everyone, however the rMBP sure is the best MacBook Pro currently available, bar none!

For you, not for me. 12 year olds deal in such absolutist remarks.

 

[jterp7]

I've seen it in person. It's nice and all but I'm the type that needs to have a CD drive just in case lol. Plus $2000+ is a little steep for a Retina display MBP... Or maybe I'm just being cheap haha. I'd rather spend the 1500 on a regular 15" MBP.

if you're cheap, there's always refurb or open box, though some effort is necessary. $1500 would get you last years low end model at microcenter, this years is 1799 for the base cMBP.

1749 is the best I've seen on MR for a rMBP.

 

[mykelala01]

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for you, not for me. 12 year olds deal in such absolutist remarks.

lol:d

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

rMBP has higher clocked graphics

The Nvidia GT 650M in the Retina MacBook Pro runs at a higher clock speed than the non-Retina model. This will result in slightly slower graphics performance in games and on external displays with the non-Retina model compared with the Retina model. This is not something that can be upgraded later. Apparently the over-clocked GT 650M in the rMBP outperforms the GTX 660M.

Here is the thread:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1393606/

After factoring in all of the advantages of the rMBP, not the least of which is its better price-performance ratio, it's the non-Retina MacBook Pro that looks like the turd in Apple's latest round of updates.

 

[TheMacBookPro]

1: I can see through the hinge area. It's very distracting to see my desk surface through that opening.

That would be a major issue for me since my table is light-colored and it would seriously affect my ability to concentrate on the screen. Fortunately, I cannot see through the hinge area. The only way I'm able to see my table through the hinge is when the lid is half-closed and sticking my head straight at the hinge. I doubt I'll ever be doing my computing like that, because I can't really see the screen that way.

2: Doesn't say "Macbook Pro" below the display. It looks cheap to me.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But I will say this- of all the things to critique, this is the silliest thing I've seen critiqued so far.

3: The vents on the edges would be blocked if I had one and placed it on my lap. Defeats the point of them really...

I'm using it on my lap right now. The vents are actually at a slight angle so my thighs are not covering any of the vents, even with my thighs straight over them.

4: UI lag. My Mid-09 Macbook Pro 15" that only had a 9400m didn't lag that bad in Lion, and ML on the Retina is even worse in some cases.

Not in my experience.

5: Anything non-Retina looks awful, and full Retina support is still many years away from what I can tell (by then my cMBP 2012 will be out of date anyways).

Completely subjective. I can use Pages just fine and my head hasn't exploded yet, contrary to what those on this forum told me to expect.

6: Small SSD/big price upgrades. Using the proprietary "blade" SSD wasn't necessary as we now make conventional SSD's much thinner than before, same thing for HDD's. A HDD + SSD or SSD + SSD combo would have still been easily obtainable in the current thickness of the rMBP.

I don't think so. Have you looked at the iFixit tear down? There's no extra space inside.

7: Macsafe 2. I don't care that it's a new connector, that's all fine and dandy. But why the crappy ass T-Style connector again? It's just not a comfortable connection to use.

This is something which I've explained over and over again. Magsafe is not designed to be comfortable to use, easy to use with a vertical stand or be pretty. It's designed to disconnect when the cable is tripped over, and the crappy ass L connector only works 50% of the time for that.

With the T connector, it doesn't really matter which way the cable is going, it's still going to disconnect when someone trips over the cable. In my experience, with the L connector, if someone tripped over the cable in the direction where the plug is connected like so:

---------------> DIRECTION OF TRAVEL
............. | (CABLE)
............. |
MAGSAFE []-->] MACBOOK

the cable either doesn't disconnect or disconnects only when it's too late (after the computer falls onto the floor or the person trips, sometimes both).

MagSafe 2 does disconnect a bit too easily for my liking- even a little tug and the plug disconnects from the computer- but I'll take that over the cable not disconnecting and my computer flying onto the floor.

So while I agree that MagSafe 2 isn't perfect, I disagree that the T-shape is 'crappy ass'. The original T-shaped plastic MagSafe was the best design so far imo. They should've just recased that in aluminum and fixed the cable fraying issue. I'm assuming they've already fixed it with MS2 so it wouldn't have been impossible to do that to the original MS.

For you, not for me. 12 year olds deal in such absolutist remarks.

Isn't that an absolutist remark in itself?

 

[Chiloé]

The Nvidia GT 650M in the Retina MacBook Pro runs at a higher clock speed than the non-Retina model. This will result in slightly slower graphics performance in games and on external displays with the non-Retina model compared with the Retina model. This is not something that can be upgraded later. Apparently the over-clocked GT 650M in the rMBP outperforms the GTX 660M.

Here is the thread:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1393606/

After factoring in all of the advantages of the rMBP, not the least of which is its better price-performance ratio, it's the non-Retina MacBook Pro that looks like the turd in Apple's latest round of updates.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe it's possible to overclock the card (on the MBP or the rMBP) in Windows via Boot Camp.

Also, if you choose to (or had to) game without an external monitor, a similarly specced MBP will run the game faster than the rMBP at native resolution.

As for price-performance ratio, it all depends on the perspective of the user and the user's needs. The rMBP is not the better option based on price for everyone, just as the MBP is not a logical choice for everyone.

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe it's possible to overclock the card (on the MBP or the rMBP) in Windows via Boot Camp.

Once you boot back into Mac OS, your overclock is gone. What you are suggesting will only work while you are in Bootcamp using Windows. Very few people that I know use their MacBook Pro just to run Windows. This is not a very useful option unless you are using your MacBook Pro just to run Windows. Personally I like knowing that I am getting 100% of my GPU performance on the Mac side as well.

Also, if you choose to (or had to) game without an external monitor, a similarly specced MBP will run the game faster than the rMBP at native resolution.

Can you point to any statistics or tests to back this up?

As for price-performance ratio, it all depends on the perspective of the user and the user's needs. The rMBP is not the better option based on price for everyone, just as the MBP is not a logical choice for everyone.

True, but I believe a majority will opt for the Retina model because it is simply the best laptop Apple currently manufactures.

 

[GoreVidal]

The Nvidia GT 650M in the Retina MacBook Pro runs at a higher clock speed than the non-Retina model. This will result in slightly slower graphics performance in games and on external displays with the non-Retina model compared with the Retina model. This is not something that can be upgraded later. Apparently the over-clocked GT 650M in the rMBP outperforms the GTX 660M.

Here is the thread:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1393606/

After factoring in all of the advantages of the rMBP, not the least of which is its better price-performance ratio, it's the non-Retina MacBook Pro that looks like the turd in Apple's latest round of updates.

It HAS to to drive 4x the pixels, therefore negating it's true performance potential. All that power is lost especially in After Effects tests, where it's only 10% faster than the classic 2.3Ghz MBP, likely due to the extra work it has to do.

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

Sure, but at least I get to keep my 1.5TB of internal drive space, a larger screen, and far superior speakers. As well as dongle-less ports and an anti-glare screen, which kind of negates the lighter/thinner chassis since I'd have to carry an external drive and dongles around with me to make up for the rMBP's losses. That and the retina is very overrated compared to a 1920x1200 screen on a 17". Just saying.

Using a smaller capacity, but much faster, internal SSD for your OS and applications and an external HD or RAID for storing your large photo and video files will give you much better performance.

Larger screen - 2" matters? Those who do serious photo and video work will end up using larger external displays anyway, so this is moot. A 15" model is lighter, fits in tighter spaces, and is more easily carried around. The 17" model can be a little clunky if you take it on the road a lot. It's also been discontinued, so I don't understand why you are arguing this case. The 17" is not even an option anymore. We are debating the pros and cons of the Retina vs non-Retina model, but you're acting like someone is trying to convince you to ditch your 17" - nothing of the sort.

Also, how are your MacBook Pro speakers "far superior"? You mean because it comes with a "subwoofer" that Apple does not even feel is a headline feature? They don't mention it anywhere, and to find mention of this you have to look at their specifications page and even there, it's not highlighted as a new or notable feature. I wouldn't really hold up any MacBook Pro speaker as an example of quality audio.

As far as ports and dongles are concerned, the RMBP is not for people who need to be wired to a LAN port or need a Superdrive. Apple offers external options for people who need those things. The RMBP is better suited to those who prefer to remain light and mobile. Nobody is saying the RMBP is for everyone, and nobody is saying you, specifically, should ditch your 17". I think people automatically feel defensive when something new comes out, but that's not necessary.

I upgraded to a RMBP from a 2007 17" MBP 2.2 GHz Core Duo.

 

[GoreVidal]

Using a smaller capacity, but much faster, internal SSD for your OS and applications and an external HD or RAID for storing your large photo and video files will give you much better performance.

Larger screen - 2" matters? Those who do serious photo and video work will end up using larger external displays anyway, so this is moot. A 15" model is lighter, fits in tighter spaces, and is more easily carried around. The 17" model can be a little clunky if you take it on the road a lot. It's also been discontinued, so I don't understand why you are arguing this case. The 17" is not even an option anymore. We are debating the pros and cons of the Retina vs non-Retina model, but you're acting like someone is trying to convince you to ditch your 17" - nothing of the sort.

Also, how are your MacBook Pro speakers "far superior"? You mean because it comes with a "subwoofer" that Apple does not even feel is a headline feature? They don't mention it anywhere, and to find mention of this you have to look at their specifications page and even there, it's not highlighted as a new or notable feature. I wouldn't really hold up any MacBook Pro speaker as an example of quality audio.

As far as ports and dongles are concerned, the RMBP is not for people who need to be wired to a LAN port or need a Superdrive. Apple offers external options for people who need those things. The RMBP is better suited to those who prefer to remain light and mobile. Nobody is saying the RMBP is for everyone, and nobody is saying you, specifically, should ditch your 17". I think people automatically feel defensive when something new comes out, but that's not necessary.

I upgraded to a RMBP from a 2007 17" MBP 2.2 GHz Core Duo.

No, those who do serious video work not only use external monitors, but also need to edit in the field. So therefore, that extra 2" is very useful.

I've never had a problem using a 17" on a flight or in the field.

The 17" speakers are far superior in the mids and lows compared to the rMBP. I listened to dozens of types of music switching between the two for and hour, the 17" wipes the floor with the rMBP.

My problem with the rMBP is that it is touted as the next generation MacBook Pro, when it takes significant steps back for those of us who are actual pros compared to even the classic 15" MBP that is sold along side the rMBP.

 

[ubercool]

Just chiming in, amazing display. Best notebook computer I've ever owned by a landslide!

 

[BeachChair]

I have owned and used all the relevant Airs and Pros. The Retina is easily the best.

The keyboard feels better. It has more heft and is less noisy.

They finally removed the name from the screen, reaffirming that this isn't some insecure Dell or Samsung product that feels the need to have 'Pro' or 'Intel' lables plastered all over to feel worthy.

One of the best things about the screen is that text and images can be displayed at much smaller sizes without sacrificing legibility and detail. It means I can have two A4 pages open and they are beautiful and comfortable to read. It also means I can judge the sharpness of a photo without having to do the old 'zoom to 100%' routine.

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

No, those who do serious video work not only use external monitors, but also need to edit in the field. So therefore, that extra 2" is very useful.

RMBP has a 1920x1200 setting to give you the same pixel real estate as the 17" model for those who want that. For editing 1080p content, the Retina model actually allows you to edit your 1080p video in full 1920x1080 resolution while still giving you an extra 960 pixels horizontally and 720 pixels vertically for your editing tools, palettes, etc. You cannot do this on a 17" MBP because the full 1080p video would use the full maximum horizontal resolution of your display and leave you with only 120 pixels vertically, which is not very useful.

From a video editing perspective, the RMBP is clearly the winner here.

I've never had a problem using a 17" on a flight or in the field.

You must not fly coach

The 17" speakers are far superior in the mids and lows compared to the rMBP. I listened to dozens of types of music switching between the two for and hour, the 17" wipes the floor with the rMBP.

Sorry, we just have to disagree here. I don't know anyone who would give any critical listening to laptop speakers, let alone make comparisons. This is just not on my radar but it's important to some.

My problem with the rMBP is that it is touted as the next generation MacBook Pro, when it takes significant steps back for those of us who are actual pros compared to even the classic 15" MBP that is sold along side the rMBP.

I consider the RMBP clearly next-generation, as it contains the majority of the features available in the previous generation plus several high-profile new features not available in the previous generation, all in a thinner and lighter package.

----------

+1

i have owned and used all the relevant airs and pros. The retina is easily the best.

The keyboard feels better. It has more heft and is less noisy.

They finally removed the name from the screen, reaffirming that this isn't some insecure dell or samsung product that feels the need to have 'pro' or 'intel' lables plastered all over to feel worthy.

One of the best things about the screen is that text and images can be displayed at much smaller sizes without sacrificing legibility and detail. It means i can have two a4 pages open and they are beautiful and comfortable to read. It also means i can judge the sharpness of a photo without having to do the old 'zoom to 100%' routine.

 

[jcpb]

You must not fly coach

I regularly see people using their 16"+ laptops in coach, and really, 17" MBPs are as large as 16" PC laptops...

I consider the RMBP clearly next-generation, as it contains the majority of the features available in the previous generation plus several high-profile new features not available in the previous generation, all in a thinner and lighter package.

New features, such as very low repairability of components, no FireWire without an adapter, no GigE without an adapter...

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

New features, such as very low repairability of components, no FireWire (and will remain a big issue for as long as the TB-to-FW adapter is not released), no GigE without a $30 adapter...

Roll your eyes as much as you want...

Low repairability of components? Hmm, let's see... the RAM is not something that will probably ever need to be repaired and RAM expansion to 16 GB gives you more RAM than Apple officially supports on the non-Retina model. I understand that people have upgraded their non-Retina Macs to 16 GB using third party memory, that's great. However, those same people are making huge assumptions that they will be able to upgrade their cMBP's to 32 GB once those chips become available - that is wild speculation at best. Those of us who bought MacBook Pros in 2007 learned the hard way that even though you can put higher capacity RAM chips in the machine, there is no guarantee that the hardware and OS will recognize all of it.

Thunderbolt-to-Firewire adapter? It's available for $29 from Apple and ships in 1-3 days. Look: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD464.

GigE? Modern wireless networks already give you up to 90% of gigabit ethernet speeds. As I recall, the MB Air also lacks a GigE port but nobody is making a big deal about that. Apple throws out legacy technology when it streamlines its designs. Apple made a calculated decision that the majority of people who buy the Retina model will have no need for a physical internet connection. Apple does not make these decisions in a vacuum, they are based on a lot of market research and focus group testing. Those who need a physical ethernet connection can get an adapter or buy the non-Retina model if having the port built-in is so important.

 

[jcpb]

GigE? Modern wireless networks already give you up to 90% of gigabit ethernet speeds.

Read that again, and tell me what is so wrong about that claim.

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

Read that again, and tell me what is so wrong about that claim.

Are you not aware of dual-band 2.4/5.0 GHz routers which achieve a throughput of 900 Mb/s? I believe 900 Mb/s is 87% of gigabit ethernet speed. Where am I wrong? Of course you won't get this speed at Starbucks...

 

[GoreVidal]

RMBP has a 1920x1200 setting to give you the same pixel real estate as the 17" model for those who want that. For editing 1080p content, the Retina model actually allows you to edit your 1080p video in full 1920x1080 resolution while still giving you an extra 960 pixels horizontally and 720 pixels vertically for your editing tools, palettes, etc. You cannot do this on a 17" MBP because the full 1080p video would use the full maximum horizontal resolution of your display and leave you with only 120 pixels vertically, which is not very useful.

From a video editing perspective, the RMBP is clearly the winner here.

Image



You must not fly coach



Sorry, we just have to disagree here. I don't know anyone who would give any critical listening to laptop speakers, let alone make comparisons. This is just not on my radar but it's important to some.



I consider the RMBP clearly next-generation, as it contains the majority of the features available in the previous generation plus several high-profile new features not available in the previous generation, all in a thinner and lighter package.

----------

+1

You don't understand the difference between screen real estate and physical size. If you've ever worked in post production, you would understand the latter is very important and helpful, especially in field post production.

And yes, I fly coach quite often.

Laptop speakers are quite helpful if I'm outside on the deck or when I don't want to travel with external speakers and just want to play music in my hotel room from my laptop. My ears can tell the difference, maybe yours can't.

I'd consider the rMBP's screen to be next generation, but sacrificing functionality and ability for shaving unnoticeable (I've owned it) size and weight is just silly. So it's apparent you and I will agree to disagree and we look for different things in our notebooks. Mine is a tool, weight and thickness mean nothing when I have to add carry-ons to compensate for its shortfalls. Good day.

----------

Are you not aware of dual-band 2.4/5.0 GHz routers which achieve a throughput of 900 Mb/s? I believe 900 Mb/s is 87% of gigabit ethernet speed. Where am I wrong? Of course you won't get this speed at Starbucks...

No, 802.11N is 300Mbps THEORETICAL bandwidth. I for one have never gotten those speeds. Gigabit is 1000Mbps. That's where you're wrong, in the facts and arithmetic.