OMG. Please reserve all judgement on rMBP until you see it in person.

[sofianito]

I spent quite a bit time at the Apple Store staring at the retina and non-retina Macbook Pro's and I couldn't see any difference. I do wear glasses so maybe my vision isn't that great.

I did the same many times:
* The non-retina is brighter and you don't need to maximise the brightness.
* The retina is nice, text is crisp,... bla bla, but the glare is annoying and mission control sadly lags. My Late 2008 performs better with ML!

A funny thing happened when I was there. I was looking at the non-Retina 15 and two teenaged boys came next to me and were looking at another non-retina 15 Macbook Pro. They were talking about how amazing the Retina Macbook Pro is while looking at a non-retina Macbook Pro! I found this very amusing.

A number of people don't care a **** about retina, they just buy it because it is so cool!

----------

Something must be wrong with your particular unit, as I have a 2.6 GHz model without even a hint of the slightest lag anywhere, no matter what I'm doing. Safari 6 scrolling is almost too fast for me.

Why Apple doesn't bother to explain what the **** is going on with those "wrong" units? Aren't they manufactured in the same factory in China?

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

I am running my late 2008 MBP with 8GB of RAM since Snow Leopard has been released and had no issues. Ivy Bridge supports 32GB RAM, and I bet you whenever the 16GB RAM modules will be available, cMBP owners would be able to upgrade to 32GB , unless Apple limits it by software...

You lack of credibility. You are just speculating without any proof...

I suppose you didn't know that the early 2007 MacBook Pros, even though their RAM could be upgraded, cannot physically address more than 3 GB RAM even though you can fill it up with 4 GB or higher modules? There was nothing about the CPU and subsystems at the time that would have led anyone to believe that you could not upgrade the RAM, but Apple only officially supported 2 GB for a reason. You are just speculating without any facts.

Apple is fixing the price. Their sales and marketing team have overpriced the cMBP and are lowering their rMBP's margins this time because they probably want to push toward a model that will provide them much higher margins... Only time will tell...

Whatever the case may be, the rMBP is still cheaper even by your own admission. Lower price, more features, latest technology and newest design... where is the problem?

If the rMBP didn't have issues with the retina display that are apparently affecting randomly users, and if someone does not care about upgradability, low disk space, then the rMBP BASE MODEL ($2,199.00) would be a no-brainer. Spending $3k on a laptop is an unnecessary whim unless you are wealthy or you've gone out of your mind

I have no issues with my Retina display or with UI animations - everything is buttery smooth at any resolution. You still have not addressed how the cMBP is more upgradeable than a rMBP given that the maximum expansion of each is the same - actually rMBP maximum RAM is even more.

A rMBP 2.6 GHz w/ 16 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD costs $2,999. A cMBP w/ 8 GB RAM and 750 GB HD (no SSD) costs $2,199. Are you saying that you can get a 16 GB RAM upgrade and SSD drive, all for less than $800, to make it cost the same as the rMBP? I don't think so.

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I did the same many times:
* The non-retina is brighter and you don't need to maximise the brightness.
* The retina is nice, text is crisp,... bla bla, but the glare is annoying and mission control sadly lags. My Late 2008 performs better with ML!


A number of people don't care a **** about retina, they just buy it because it is so cool!

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Why Apple doesn't bother to explain what the **** is going on with those "wrong" units? Aren't they manufactured in the same factory in China?

I don't understand why you want Apple to explain anything to anyone. If your unit is not working properly, exchange it for a different one. What is there to explain?

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I used it for over a week and was even more underwhelmed honestly.

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Doesn't seem like it, but your post does.

Were you expecting it to cook you dinner and do your laundry? What, exactly, were you expecting it to do? After spending only a few days with this puppy, it's quite obviously the best laptop Apple has ever designed and built. The quality is amazing compared to anything else on the Windows side.

I can't find anything to complain about.

 

[wethackrey]

I think sometimes people forget that it's not just how sharp the display is; it's how good your eyesight is!

My eyesight started to get worse when I was bout 41. That was a while ago now and, sadly, it's the only thing about me that hasn't gotten better with age. So I surely have to agree with you on this point. That's why I was so nervous about migrating from my 17" anti-glare. And, as I've said here more than once, for me anyway, the retina display is a godsend. It is MUCH better for me than the increased real-estate of the 17". And glare is just not a problem. I've owned glossy display MBPs which I hated. This display is completely different.

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I think that spending a lot of hours in front of a retina may have side effects... Like for instance, you could easily break with your GF/BF because you start to see her/him ugly and not retinased...

Hey, wrong again. My girlfriend is incredibly high resolution. And her 3D audio is simply amazing.

 

[gentlefury]

My eyesight started to get worse when I was bout 41. That was a while ago now and, sadly, it's the only thing about me that hasn't gotten better with age. So I surely have to agree with you on this point. That's why I was so nervous about migrating from my 17" anti-glare. And, as I've said here more than once, for me anyway, the retina display is a godsend. It is MUCH better for me than the increased real-estate of the 17". And glare is just not a problem. I've owned glossy display MBPs which I hated. This display is completely different.

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Hey, wrong again. My girlfriend is incredibly high resolution. And her 3D audio is simply amazing.

I agree. I wouldn't say my eyesight is bad...but its nowhere near perfect and I can step back a bit from the rMBP and still read it perfectly.

 

[wethackrey]

I don't think that's a fair comment unless you're the sort of person who always buys the bare minimum of what you need. For example, what car do you own? I bet it ain't something ****** like a Chevrolet/Daewoo Matiz . People are entitled to spend their personal allowance on whatever luxuries they want.

I agree. Categorizing any computer as an "unnecessary whim" shows very little insight into why people purchase computers. I buy a new computer about once a year because 1) it's a cost effective strategy for me. My annualized costs for computer hardware this way is usually well under $1000 after I sell my like-new year-old machine on eBay*. and 2) Whatever I can do to increase my productivity, increases my income, either directly or indirectly. I'm paid well, so if I'm billing T&E, high productivity enhances my reputation and allows me to maintain a high rate. If I'm doing a firm fixed price engagement, high productivity directly benefits my bottom line. There may be a third fun factor in there, but it's paid for by 1 & 2.

For those of us who don't buy Macs for business (I have those as well), buying a truly great computer has it's own rewards. If you're buying a computer anyway, why stop a couple of hundred bucks short of something that will put a smile on your face when you use it. Life is too short.

I say this fully understanding that it is the viewpoint of a bourgeois Western capitalist. That's a sin I plead guilty to. Sue me.

*several times now I've given the old computer away, which rather destroys my theory of a cost-effective purchasing strategy. But the giving has it's own rewards. Some have gone to kids who needed them. Some to an island school in Fiji.

 

[philosopherdog]

There's no going back

I've got 3 current macs, a current air, iMac 27", and the retina pro. The retina pro positively screens in comparison. Under ML there is no lag. But everyone knew that lion wasn't truly retina ready. Mine runs cool. Battery life is great. The screen is simply incredible. Now, there will always be nay Sayers for whoever reason. But then again there are people who still believe the earth is flat, or that evolution is a plot against Christians (if you're in America anyway). No point in arguing with fools. No point. The rMBP is also great value. Compare it to any reasonable high end machine. It's Hard to do because few are anywhere close. And you'll see the price is more than reasonable for a high end machine. I think it's a bargain personally.

 

[GoreVidal]

I am impressed by your dream specs . 1,5TB of disk, that's amazing

Which one do you use most?

Well I returned the rMBP if that's any indication. And I have perfect vision.

 

[old-wiz]

Hey, wrong again. My girlfriend is incredibly high resolution. And her 3D audio is simply amazing.

And she can do a lot more than any rMBP will ever do.

 

[wethackrey]

And she can do a lot more than any rMBP will ever do.

How do you know? Wait... That slut!

 

[Dangerous Theory]

If you're buying a computer anyway, why stop a couple of hundred bucks short of something that will put a smile on your face when you use it.

Well said.

 

[old-wiz]

How do you know? Wait... That slut!

Oops.. she is going to be mad at me.

 

[mat25]

Im floored by this display. Simply amazing, best display I have ever seen.

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

I am agreeing with almost everything in your post, but I'd like to comment on this one. I think what many mean by expandability is primarily the ability to install a new, faster and cheaper SSD once one is released. This is of course one benefit of the non-retina version, albeit a very far fetched one.

Currently, the retina MBP actually is more expandable because of the dual TB and HDMI ports.

----------



This is by far one of the most useful posts in this thread

I believe I read recently that the SSD drive can be replaced, so there will likely be a 3rd party upgrade market for this particular aspect of the rMBP.

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I totally agree with your post but the only problem I have is that I cant accept the lag which I see every where even after installing ML. The only thing which is causing the rMBP to stop lagging is when I change the resolution using switchrex to non hi dpi resolution and when you do this all the retina beauty fades. I seriously want this issue to be solved as the GPU is clearly working twice then what its supposed to.

Have you considered that SwitchResX may be partially responsible for the lag you are experiencing? The reason I ask is because I do not use SwitchResX and I do not see any lag anywhere. I've used Mission Control, Launchpad, Dashboard, all with several windows on screen and open applications. No lag whatsoever.

I have read intermittent reports about UI lag, but I have not seen any of it myself on my machine. I have a 2.6 GHz model w/ 16 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD. Have you tried removing all of your third-party applications and kernel extensions? Have you tried setting up a new user account and checking the UI performance? Have you uninstalled SwitchResX and tried again?

 

[minnus]

Whatever the case may be, the rMBP is still cheaper even by your own admission. Lower price, more features, latest technology and newest design... where is the problem?



A rMBP 2.6 GHz w/ 16 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD costs $2,999. A cMBP w/ 8 GB RAM and 750 GB HD (no SSD) costs $2,199. Are you saying that you can get a 16 GB RAM upgrade and SSD drive, all for less than $800, to make it cost the same as the rMBP? I don't think so.

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Two things:

I find it quite interesting that you response to an accusation of Apple price fixing (by keeping the price of the cMBP high so that the rMBP looks appealing), by basically saying "so what, the rMBP is cheaper." While your statement is not false...it doesn't exactly address the concern of price fixing...and in fact supports his/her idea that the rMBP looks more appealing because of it. - I'm not arguing for or against. Just pointing out that your response wasn't a very fair or productive one.

The second thing is that yes, you can easily upgrade the RAM and SSD for less than 800. 512GB SSDs are around $400-450. 16GB of ram for a laptop can be had for under $100. Even if RAM cost $200 (which it doesn't), we're still under 800 (not to mention a spare HDD and RAM set). Then the question would be - how much is the retina display worth to you?

 

[HighEndMac]

i have seen it in person and was even more underwhelmed honestly

"Underwhelmed" damn considering it’s the most advanced personal computer available on the public consumer market, that’s a pretty bold stamen. You have some seriously high standards and apparently access to future technology, I can dig that. Hook it up man!

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----------

[/COLOR]
Hey, wrong again. My girlfriend is incredibly high resolution. And her 3D audio is simply amazing.

Wait ...you have a GF?

 

[GGJstudios]

"Underwhelmed" damn considering it’s the most advanced personal computer available on the public consumer market, that’s a pretty bold stamen. You have some seriously high standards and apparently access to future technology, I can dig that. Hook it up man!

One doesn't need to have access to future technology to be underwhelmed by the MBPR. When compared to the marketing hype or compared to personal expectations for a next-generation MBP, the MBPR falls short in some peoples' opinion. And "the most advanced personal computer available on the public consumer market" is highly subjective, depending on each person's definition of "advanced". It's a very fine computer, but it's not the ideal computer for everyone.

 

[leenak]

Most cMBP owners are techies while most rMBP owners are casual users who remind me those people, either wealthy or poor, who buy an expensive car and whenever they need to change the oil or the windshield wiper fluid, they take it to the repair shop . They probably have never opened or would never open their car bonnet . Not to mention, they are susceptible to positive criticism, especially if it comes from cMBP owners...

You have any proof to back up your statement?

I'm a woman and a techie and I love, love my rMBP. I had been planning to buy a MBP for nearly a year and was excited about the rumors of a new redesign.

I've also opened the hood of my car to check on various fluids. I've even changed a flat tire before. I'm not about to do an oil change (in the US at least, hardly anyone changes their own oil).

I think there are reasons to buy the cMBP and there are reasons to buy the rMBP. It seems that some cMBP owners really like to act superior for some reason though.

 

[HighEndMac]

One doesn't need to have access to future technology to be underwhelmed by the MBPR. When compared to the marketing hype or compared to personal expectations for a next-generation MBP, the MBPR falls short in some peoples' opinion. And "the most advanced personal computer available on the public consumer market" is highly subjective, depending on each person's definition of "advanced". It's a very fine computer, but it's not the ideal computer for everyone.

Fair-enough....

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

Two things:

I find it quite interesting that you response to an accusation of Apple price fixing (by keeping the price of the cMBP high so that the rMBP looks appealing), by basically saying "so what, the rMBP is cheaper." While your statement is not false...it doesn't exactly address the concern of price fixing...and in fact supports his/her idea that the rMBP looks more appealing because of it. - I'm not arguing for or against. Just pointing out that your response wasn't a very fair or productive one.

Apple is allowed to set the prices for its products and most resellers sell pretty close to this price. So just because the rMBP price may have been set lower because Apple wants to push the product, or the price of the cMBP was artificially kept high, why does any of this matter? Ultimately we all have to pay the price Apple sets for its products and the rMBP has the lowest price feature-for-feature.

The second thing is that yes, you can easily upgrade the RAM and SSD for less than 800. 512GB SSDs are around $400-450. 16GB of ram for a laptop can be had for under $100. Even if RAM cost $200 (which it doesn't), we're still under 800 (not to mention a spare HDD and RAM set). Then the question would be - how much is the retina display worth to you?

Your math is off. 16 GB of RAM for the 2012 MacBook Pros (non Retina) costs $162 at OWC, $175 at Crucial. 500 GB SSD (Crucial) costs $500, OWC SSD for 480 GB costs $509. Using the lowest cost name-brand components I could find would add $662 to the cost of a stock 15" MacBook Pro, which brings the final price to $2,861. A rMBP with identical specs costs $2,999, or only $138 more than the non-Retina model. This is ONLY if you are comfortable doing your own RAM and hard drive upgrades instead of getting the same built-to-order from Apple.

So yes, I'd say the Retina display and thinner, lighter, next-generation platform for only $138 more is absolutely worth every penny.

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

I've got 3 current macs, a current air, iMac 27", and the retina pro. The retina pro positively screens in comparison. Under ML there is no lag. But everyone knew that lion wasn't truly retina ready. Mine runs cool. Battery life is great. The screen is simply incredible. Now, there will always be nay Sayers for whoever reason. But then again there are people who still believe the earth is flat, or that evolution is a plot against Christians (if you're in America anyway). No point in arguing with fools. No point. The rMBP is also great value. Compare it to any reasonable high end machine. It's Hard to do because few are anywhere close. And you'll see the price is more than reasonable for a high end machine. I think it's a bargain personally.

Apple can't even beat the price of the rMBP with its non-retina model. Configure both in the Apple store with comparable RAM and SSD options - the rMBP will be quite a bit less expensive. Even if you get the base model non-retina MBP and upgrade it with 3rd party SSD and RAM, the rMBP costs less than $200 more. For that under $200 you get a Retina display, 1 lb lighter, .2 inches thinner, next generation design and dual Thunderbolt ports (non-retina has only a single port).

I still can't find a single compelling reason to prefer the non-retina to the retina model.

----------

One doesn't need to have access to future technology to be underwhelmed by the MBPR. When compared to the marketing hype or compared to personal expectations for a next-generation MBP, the MBPR falls short in some peoples' opinion. And "the most advanced personal computer available on the public consumer market" is highly subjective, depending on each person's definition of "advanced". It's a very fine computer, but it's not the ideal computer for everyone.

No single computer is ideal for everyone, however the rMBP sure is the best MacBook Pro currently available, bar none!

 

[GGJstudios]

No single computer is ideal for everyone, however the rMBP sure is the best MacBook Pro currently available, bar none!

Again, that's one opinion. I wouldn't trade my 4 year old non-unibody MBP for the MBPR in an even swap.

 

[Liquinn]

Again, that's one opinion. I wouldn't trade my 4 year old non-unibody MBP for the MBPR in an even swap.

What? Why?

 

[clyde2801]

What? Why?

Yeah.....I'm not sure I agree with that one. Then again, it's all subjective.

 

[GGJstudios]

What? Why?

• Glossy screen - deal-breaker for me
• Lion or Mountain Lion, neither of which offer anything I need or want, and some things I don't want
• No Firewire 800 port - requires an adapter, which isn't available yet
• Non-removable battery won't last as long in remote areas as removable battery with additional batteries
• I'm sure there are other reasons I don't recall at the moment, but these are enough for me.

Again, this is my personal criteria. I know many prefer the MBPR, which is fine. I'm not knocking it; I'm just saying it's not the ideal or best computer for everyone.

 

[minnus]

Apple is allowed to set the prices for its products and most resellers sell pretty close to this price. So just because the rMBP price may have been set lower because Apple wants to push the product, or the price of the cMBP was artificially kept high, why does any of this matter? Ultimately we all have to pay the price Apple sets for its products and the rMBP has the lowest price feature-for-feature.



Your math is off. 16 GB of RAM for the 2012 MacBook Pros (non Retina) costs $162 at OWC, $175 at Crucial. 500 GB SSD (Crucial) costs $500, OWC SSD for 480 GB costs $509. Using the lowest cost name-brand components I could find would add $662 to the cost of a stock 15" MacBook Pro, which brings the final price to $2,861. A rMBP with identical specs costs $2,999, or only $138 more than the non-Retina model. This is ONLY if you are comfortable doing your own RAM and hard drive upgrades instead of getting the same built-to-order from Apple.

So yes, I'd say the Retina display and thinner, lighter, next-generation platform for only $138 more is absolutely worth every penny.

I don't disagree. Apple can set whatever price they want. I was merely making an observation about the irrelevance of your response to the original claim.

I'm sorry - I forget that not everyone is as savvy with finding 'slick deals' . Just FYI, the Crucial M4 was on sale for 350 a couple of weeks ago, and dips to around 400-450 on occasion. The time of 1gb per $1 is long over. RAM can definitely be had for cheaper, you're just looking at the wrong places. For example, OCZ and Crucial aren't your only options. There are many more compatible RAM out there, even if they are not advertised to be. But even at non-sale prices, as you have stated - it is still cheaper. You can be the decider of whether or not the difference from there is worth it - you clearly believe it is. Point is that you said :

A rMBP 2.6 GHz w/ 16 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD costs $2,999. A cMBP w/ 8 GB RAM and 750 GB HD (no SSD) costs $2,199. Are you saying that you can get a 16 GB RAM upgrade and SSD drive, all for less than $800, to make it cost the same as the rMBP? I don't think so.