One month after, it's still a terrible machine.

[raqball]

You may not be, but many people are, and posting multiple viewpoints makes it easier for other readers to figure out whether they'd like it.

I returned mine and the only regret I still have about moving is that I haven't found replacement paint programs that I like.

Agree...

There are better machines out there from a bang for the buck perspective but I happen to like, and am semi trapped, into MacOS as I have a lot of paid apps and programs.

Making the swap to Windows is doable for me and maybe my next machine will be something made by MS, maybe a Surface Book?. I also tend to stick with Apple because of their build quality and support..

I like my nonTB well enough but.......

I generally want and get the latest and greatest so end of this year I will probably be looking at a new machine from someone...

 

[doitdada]

I've never had any problems with Windows 10 in peculiar, but with software written for Windows there has been some issues, the same can be said about apps for macOS, iOS, Linux and Android. Since Windows 2000, I think Microsoft has done a good job, with the exception of Vista. With the diverse support for million of different devices, cables and peripherals, Windows is great. macOS may support a few hundred third party peripherals, and sometimes the support for them are flaky at best. For coding/layout/terminal though, I prefer macOS, but for everything else, a Windows machine is sufficient in more than one way.

 

[EnderBeta]

I've never had any problems with Windows 10 in peculiar, but with software written for Windows there has been some issues, the same can be said about apps for macOS, iOS, Linux and Android. Since Windows 2000, I think Microsoft has done a good job, with the exception of Vista. With the diverse support for million of different devices, cables and peripherals, Windows is great. macOS may support a few hundred third party peripherals, and sometimes the support for them are flaky at best. For coding/layout/terminal though, I prefer macOS, but for everything else, a Windows machine is sufficient in more than one way.

I agree. Especially with high resolution monitors programs are not always made to properly display. Some of the work tools I have to use every day display like complete junk in 4K no matter how I scale the UI. On the other hand on Mac OS I have yet to have an issue with the UI.

The problem on Windows could be resolved if they kill off the older code and force people to upgrade to Windows 10. Then the controls on the screen can be taken back under control of Microsoft so the screen doesn't have tiny as heck tree views and menu bars in one program and decent sized controls in the next but with text going off the edge. Crestron and AMX have very dated interfaces that don't scale.

 

[doitdada]

I agree. Especially with high resolution monitors programs are not always made to properly display. Some of the work tools I have to use every day display like complete junk in 4K no matter how I scale the UI. On the other hand on Mac OS I have yet to have an issue with the UI.

When the retina display was released in 2012, it made most apps look like crap, except for the ones optimised and released by Apple. It took a long time to get rid of the majority of software written for legacy screens. Still there is an app here and there that looks outdated and fussy.

I guess Windows users, more than Mac users, are just trying get a job done, they don't care about how much white space there is between the OK and Cancel button. Pixel perfection and all the other stuff is secondary. I like great design, but if it looks better than it performs, I don't care.

 

[Morten_Hjort]

Being a tMBP owner myself I'm actually kind of disappointed. Performance not really better than my old 2011 15" MBP for basic graphic design and while the tMBP is really well built I cannot really get used to the keyboard. I'm almost 100% sure I'll be a MS-owner next time and if there was a really obvious alternative I'd taken that right now.

 

[raqball]

I had not really looked into the Surface Book but did some research into it this morning and watched a few video reviews.. Looks like a pretty sweet machine! I don't think I'd need the dGPU for my needs but the one thing that concerns me is the rather slow SSD speeds when compared to the MacBooks..

 

[ihatetoregister]

I actually don't mind the dongles at all. USB-C is the future, it is really nice to be able to connect something without being worried if it's the right side or not. My problem is that this laptop could be really good without the touchbar and the gigantic trackpad.
[doublepost=1484610266][/doublepost]

Yes, as I mentioned there's no one better. Imagine you're in an island with 5 girls all are ugly. Even though they are ugly you will probably be happy with one of them. That's kinda the same analogy

Agreed, I would have like a version of the nTB with the same processor options as the TB.
As for the analogy ...

You claimed that the forums were split. They're not. The new keyboard is HEAVILY favored. And guess what? The new machines are heavily favored.

By making up stories to support your inability to research a tool for you specific needs, you are just losing credibility. You're not getting any support because this is all on you, not Apple. And that's assuming it's true.

First, you are taking things way too seriously and you are way too angry for something so trivial.
Second, what do oyu mean about credibility ? I'm not trying to convince you, or really anyone else. If someone can see the issue I'm having with this machine and give them second thoughts, good. I don't wish them to spend that much money on a poor machine.
The fact you "believe" or not I and other people are having problem, I'm sorry but I don't give a ****.
This seems like your problem and your obsession only.

Also, as other forumers shown, this isn't as much of a clearcut that you pretend. But then again, I still don't care, I know what I saw and what I thought at the time.

Apple 1st Gen`s are always flaky, needing some time for the kinks to be worked out at the production phase & software level. Think the 2016 is more so as it`s one of the most significant updates to the MPB, and lets be straight nor is the Mac Apples priority these days.

"If" I go for one it will be 2nd or 3rd revision. As for sales & returns no real ideal, I may speak to friend as it`s his field, his last comment was the 2016 is for the fans. Can certainly state I have yet to see one in use by an actual owner in my travels. My own consideration is that Apple is looking at smaller volumes & higher margin, with pricing rather reflecting the same.

For me it`s more related to value than absolute cost, at just $61 more Surface Book offers significantly more over the new MBP. Luckily I am not locked into a specific OS, which I find of recent advantageous.

Q-6

Words of wisdom.
1st gens are always flaky : the first iPod nano, the first Retinas, etc.
I'm kinda locked into an OS ( I use Windows purely for gaming ), and for a mix use of programming and casual use it feels MacOS is better. I should start to switch though.
Also, maybe the Windows community is nicer because oh my god, the raging haters here makes it look like a 4chan board.

It was interesting in the second video to find out that there are replacement USB cables that will work without adapters or replacing drives so the ports are not as big an issue as I thought.

Yeah, that's one thing this thread brought to light, is that there are simple cables - which I didn't know about because simply, literally nothing was available for USB-C where I live apart from the dongles on sale on Apple.no

My last remaining gripes are the function bar screen thing which is more of a reservation of it is actually useful or not, the loss of the mag safe and the sad being soldered into the machine.

Yeah, get ready for a disappointment on this one. It's sort of nice for some app (Safari, Photos) but this remains pretty gimmicky.
The inconvenience on the other side ... You'll probably have to remap your esc key, you might ( i know I do ) hit Siri every now and then, the bugs, the fact you need to watch to type... Meh.

I'm still of the opinion that as it stands right now the Macs in my signature are probably my last Mac computers if Apple continues down the path they are going. I never thought the day would come but Apple is utterly greedy soldering everything to their machines.

Same here. Switched for good 10 years ago, and while Apple has always been a greedy cheap bastard, I was happy to not have to deal with Windows and PCs. But when I see this machine, which cost 4060$ , I just can't imagine continuing using this crap any longer.

I don't understand why the OP is broadcasting that he can't manage to keep a desk neat enough to not literally stack his computer on top of peripherals and cables strewn about everything else.

I know that from that high up on their horses the rich hipsters can't see the common workers , but one can't have a 4000$ machine AND have a second desk. This accommodates both my work machine and the PC. And a shaver !
[doublepost=1484695085][/doublepost]

I had not really looked into the Surface Book but did some research into it this morning and watched a few video reviews.. Looks like a pretty sweet machine! I don't think I'd need the dGPU for my needs but the one thing that concerns me is the rather slow SSD speeds when compared to the MacBooks..

It looks nice, but my wife has a Surface 3 , and it's a bit so-so to be honest. I kinda wonder if in practical use it's as nice as they show in demo

 

[EnderBeta]

The problem is Apple seems to think removing options is innovation. One day we might end up with the MacBook Wheel for real because too many buttons is just not user friendly.

 

[sidewinder]

The problem is Apple seems to think removing options is innovation. One day we might end up with the MacBook Wheel for real because too many buttons is just not user friendly.

No, that is what you think. Apple *IS* innovating, just not how you think they should be innovating. Personally, I would much rather have 4 Thunderbolt 3 ports using USB-C than a couple of USB ports, an Ethernet port, a Display port, etc. This lets me chose how to use the ports instead of have their purpose chosen for me. Again, I do think it was a mistake getting rid of the SD card slot. But even that is minor.

Go ahead and buy your other machines now instead of beating up on otherwise fine systems.

 

[Trey M]

This thread is pretty comical. Just the title alone...

Anyways, here's my $ .02 when it comes to these new machines. When it comes to the discussion of battery life, I do believe that battery life has decreased from 2015 > 2016. However I'd say it's a difference of 5-10%, which is totally acceptable. I don't think most of us would buy one machine over another for ~5% difference in battery life.

Other than that one issue, the lack of of 32GB is the only other flaw that comes to mind (which will affect admittedly a smaller percentage of users). These new machines really do seem to be well reviewed and well liked. I've spent considerable time with a ntbMBP, and I really enjoyed the new keyboard. Already have a rMB so it wasn't much difference, but I did notice an improvement that will probably be much more widely accepted than the keyboard on the rMB. Space gray looks awesome, the screen is great, and build quality is superior to previous MBP's, which were already near best-in-class. The USB-C port decision is a non-discussion in my opinion; I buy these machines for 4-5 years of usage, so buying anything other than the unanimously agreed next-gen port would be silly in my eyes.

I'm almost always one of the earliest adopters for quite a few Apple products, but for some reason I just felt it was wise to sit this one out. I don't know what other improvements the next revision will bring, assuming the rumors are true regarding 32GB RAM & the IGZO display, but for a number of reasons I thought I'd stick it out (though it is painful) in hopes for a perfected 2017 option. Improved battery life, first adopter fixes, 32GB RAM, among other yet-unknown improvements all factored into my decision. The other major factor was just that the 2012 rMBP has aged so well that I just felt like I was capable of waiting it out.

 

[doitdada]

Let’s take a look at numbers:

There are about 19 million developers in the world. And Apple has managed to sell about 19 million Macs over the past four quarters. What a coincidence!

From an article by QZ
https://qz.com/834235/the-new-macbo...le-has-stopped-making-laptops-for-developers/

 

[bxsonic]

Just get a USB C to lightning cable for your iPhone 7. I now use the MBP charger for all my iOS devices when I travel. It even fast charge my iPad Pro 12.9".

Other than that, rant on

 

[Hieveryone]

Oh, it's pretty, so you can flatter your ego and display your wealth in coffee shops.

</rant>

LOL! Well, at least there's something you like about it.

 

[Ethosik]

Because it's not always about video encoding.

Benchmarks are useful for a baseline in performance. In this case geekbench is useful for more day to day things like compressing, video decoding, desktop animation handling and other less stranious tasks that on a slow computer can drive people up the wall. I only have a base 13" 2015 model so I only use it for light tasks and didn't realize the 15" had issues. Like the late 2015 iMac the 2016 MBP is running cooler primarily because of the work Intel did and not Apple, although it is worth noting that Apple adjusted the fan programming in the firmware on the iMac.

It was interesting in the second video to find out that there are replacement USB cables that will work without adapters or replacing drives so the ports are not as big an issue as I thought.

My last remaining gripes are the function bar screen thing which is more of a reservation of it is actually useful or not, the loss of the mag safe and the sad being soldered into the machine.

I'm still of the opinion that as it stands right now the Macs in my signature are probably my last Mac computers if Apple continues down the path they are going. I never thought the day would come but Apple is utterly greedy soldering everything to their machines.

The video editing results clearly show the 2015 systems have issues with heat and thermal throttle. Why would I care if the 2015 system is 5,000% better in benchmarks but VERY SLOW with video rendering?

 

[EnderBeta]

No, that is what you think. Apple *IS* innovating, just not how you think they should be innovating. Personally, I would much rather have 4 Thunderbolt 3 ports using USB-C than a couple of USB ports, an Ethernet port, a Display port, etc. This lets me chose how to use the ports instead of have their purpose chosen for me. Again, I do think it was a mistake getting rid of the SD card slot. But even that is minor.

Go ahead and buy your other machines now instead of beating up on otherwise fine systems.

Innovating in ways to charge more money. I suppose for you the company can do no wrong.

The lack of ports costs more money. You have to buy adapters. Apples wires are known to fray resulting in replacing them. Their adapters are not high quality but they are priced like they are. They don't give you more thunder bolt 3 ports for the ports lost. So now you either connect less things or have a less adaptive machine at a higher premium.

For instance the 2015 model had two thunder bolt 2 ports, two USB ports, a mag safe port and a sd card slot. The 2016 model lost two ports. It doesn't matter if the four ports can do everything as they can only do one thing at once without splitter adapters. That is a loss of functionality and a compromise.

If they put in two thunderbolt 3 and two USB 3 ports along with the mag safe power port and sd card slot I don't think Apple would be getting nearly as much complaints. In addition the laptop could run even cooler and quieter and have better battery life. This all without being any thicker the. The 2015 model.

Right now with Apple's sales falling even you as a cheerleader can't make me think 2 + 2 is anything but 4 and the new MBP is a poor machine. Apple has enough ultra books. They have three lines of ultra books. They need to make the other class of laptops.
[doublepost=1484718515][/doublepost]

The video editing results clearly show the 2015 systems have issues with heat and thermal throttle. Why would I care if the 2015 system is 5,000% better in benchmarks but VERY SLOW with video rendering?

If you cared about video editing you wouldn't be using a laptop.

Just because it is better at video editing doesn't mean it is better at graphic design, programming, web design, print, music editing, etc.

 

[lobo1978]

You may not be, but many people are

Talk for yourself not for "many". Unless you have a specific statistics to tell "how many" *

posting multiple viewpoints makes it easier for other readers to figure out whether they'd like it.

Intention of OP was to rant not to discuss - which he stated explicitly in the first line of his post (and angrily reminded me in his answer). He just wanted to attract negative attention/opinions and he is not interested in solutions fellow forumers gave him. He just wanted to project his gloomy and dark personality, looking for followers.

So - again - I do not understand purpose of posts like this. But we live in free world so I can also express my disgust.

I understand your decision. You only proved my case -- which is: you just return product you didn't like and get better product for YOU. You didn't spend weeks crying over it and bit**g or ranting on forums.


------footnotes--------
* I get really suspicious recently, as this forum is crawling with ad people from Apple competition with obvious agenda and targets. Dell is literally sponsoring some threads. One must be blind or naive not see through it - just looking at precise wording of some threads titles since new MacBook release.

 

[Sanpete]

If they put in two thunderbolt 3 and two USB 3 ports along with the mag safe power port and sd card slot I don't think Apple would be getting nearly as much complaints. In addition the laptop could run even cooler and quieter and have better battery life. This all without being any thicker the. The 2015 model.

According to reviews, the 2015 has worse battery life, is bigger and heavier, and runs hotter and louder. See the Notebook Check reviews, for example.

Apple would get fewer complaints now, perhaps, but people would eventually be less happy to have less powerful, less flexible ports. Apple has maximized the power of the ports in the most compact way.

Sales of the new MBPs broke records. People who read only the complaints about the new MBPs are getting a very skewed view of reality.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

Sales of the new MBPs broke records...

Source (i.e. statistics, including number of machines returened), please.

 

[aevan]

------footnotes--------
* I get really suspicious recently, as this forum is crawling with ad people from Apple competition with obvious agenda and targets. Dell is literally sponsoring some threads. One must be blind or naive not see through it - just looking at precise wording of some threads titles since new MacBook release.

There seems to be a whole narrative across the web. People are complaining about things that were typical of Macs for years (expensive, average GPU performance, throwing out ports).

Whether this is sponsored or not, I don't know, but at one point there was almost hysteria because of the fact that you need a few new usb cables. And somehow that was tied to "professionals", because apparently pros are determined by a number of ports you use. I think some of the bloggers are pushing this narrative because it is polarizing and it gets views, but it's silly. It was the same with the headphone jack - Verge even ran an article where they somehow tried to explain that low income families will be severely hit by this because they have to buy adapters that they cannot afford to be able to charge their $700 phones and listen music at the same time. I am not kidding, that was the article.

Of course, all of them are making a story out of this whole ports issue, the keyboard issue, the RAM issue - because stories sell.

 

[kasakka]

The biggest blunder for Apple IMO was not having an official USB-C hub to go with the laptop, whether built by them or from a 3rd party vendor. Something simple that would handle legacy connections (USB-A, Lightning, maybe Mini-DP for Apple displays). Instead they gave us a ton of different adapters and especially the display ones can be pretty limiting. For example I have yet to find an adapter that allows 4K @ 60 Hz over HDMI. Most do only 30 Hz and even they are apparently flaky.

Otherwise we got things we didn't ask for. The touchbar is not particularly useful and the keyboard feels worse than the previous one due to having less travel though the sideways stability is improved. Have yet to find any benefits to the larger trackpad.

I would not have gotten one but didn't have much choice in the matter as it's a work machine.

 

[leman]

The biggest blunder for Apple IMO was not having an official USB-C hub to go with the laptop, whether built by them or from a 3rd party vendor.

This I agree with very much! Would have been so much better (also from marketing standpoint) if there was a good range of officially endorsed docks and adapters at launch. If I understand correctly, one issue with lack of good HDMI adapters for example is the lack of chips that can do the conversion. Which is really annoying.

 

[aevan]

The biggest blunder for Apple IMO was not having an official USB-C hub to go with the laptop, whether built by them or from a 3rd party vendor. Something simple that would handle legacy connections (USB-A, Lightning, maybe Mini-DP for Apple displays). Instead they gave us a ton of different adapters and especially the display ones can be pretty limiting. For example I have yet to find an adapter that allows 4K @ 60 Hz over HDMI. Most do only 30 Hz and even they are apparently flaky.

There is no HDMI equipped Mac that can do 4K @ 60 via HDMI. If you want 4K 60hz on a Mac, you have to go display port on previous models and usb-c on new ones. Or settle for 30Hz.

 

[plexdk]

Disclaimer : This is a rant. If you love your machine, don't read, don't comment, don't troll (you know who you are).

Look at it. Look a those adapters.
It's ****.

It looks even more ridiculous with a USB stick on the "long" adapter. If you accept that or think it's ok in anyway, you'd be happy to buy a turd painted golden and labelled Apple.
Actually I'm sure the people happy with that idiotic situation would have been happy with anything regardless : identical set of port as for the 2015, no jack for the headphones, or even just two USB-c and nothing else.
Why do I mention this ? Well i think it's part of the problem. From the moment people are happy to buy literally ****ing anything, then you get crappy products like this one.

Not only it looks ugly and it's impractical, but it's infuriating too :
Since USB-C can be in either direction, it means that the adapter will also be in either directions, which means you have to do the "guess game" when plugging in your usb stick because maybe facing down is the right direction.
Ridiculous.

Battery is super weak, I still get 3h/3hour30 max of use. And that's with the non-intensive use. And yes, this time it's with the external screen not connected so no excuse.

Speaking of screen, quite oftenwhen the mac goes to sleep, to re-enable the display I have to turn on / off the display several time, and unplug it and replug it. like, 4-6 times. until somehow it works.
It's so annoying.

While I got used to the terrible keyboard, still when going back to a normal one I remember how much I miss my old keyboard.

Touchbar is in the way. I really waited to see if I'd use it and if it brings anything to the table, but more often than not it's buggy ( clicking on luminosity / sound icons don't do anything for instance) and I find the virtual buttons completely useless (like really, you're going to use those to confirm / cancel , rather than the enter key or tab / arrows ?! ), it's overall useless and in the way rather than bringing anything.

I hate not being able to plug my iPhone 7 to charge if I forgot my adapter at home. I ****ing hate it.

I hate I don't have a magsafe so I have to rely on a frankly ****** battery life when I'm in the living room because I have a dog and a toddler and they already almost took it down twice.

This adds to the other things I didn't like with this iteration: old processor, limited ram (granted I only need 16gb ... or do I ?), unimpressive screen and screen resolution, idiotic limitation on 4k due to adapter ...

With macOS crashing a couple of times last week, it looks like everything is pushing me to leave this and go for a Linux / Windows combo. And man, I really do not like Windows.

This maxed out 13" is a 4060$ piece of garbage, and I really don't recommend it to anyone.
Oh, it's pretty, so you can flatter your ego and display your wealth in coffee shops.

</rant>

Why don't you just replace your dongles with actual usb C <-> USB B cables? Then you dont have to use dongle.. I had the same problem when they went from Firewire 400 to 800.. instead of using dongle, just replace base cable.. + they dont cost as much.

USB C -> whatever cables have started to emerge a lot now, and they are cheap as well - no need for dongles, unless you want to connect some friends usb stick, then have a spare USB-C <-> USB-A dongle.

 

[kasakka]

There is no HDMI equipped Mac that can do 4K @ 60 via HDMI. If you want 4K 60hz on a Mac, you have to go display port on previous models and usb-c on new ones. Or settle for 30Hz.

I understand that the older Macs are a bit **** in this regard but the new ones according to Apple should support 4K @ 60 Hz with a USB-C to HDMI 2.0 adapter. The issue is that there seem to be very few of them on the market and even they work erratically (not detecting display and requiring re-connecting the adapter or HDMI cable). Apple should have been aware that 4K @ 60 Hz is going to be a norm with TVs at least and provided an adapter that does that since USB-C should be capable of it. HDCP 2.2 compatibility could also be an issue.

 

[maflynn]

[MOD NOTE]
This topic has been beaten to death. Closing it down.