Only 7 years of support from release date is unacceptable for a $2000+ personal computer.

[staypuftforums]

Especially considering these machines are sometimes sold direct from Apple for 2 or more years between updates. Mac Mini went 4 years between updates at one time.

And then there’s Apple’s refurbished store, which is currently selling iMacs that were released in 2021. You buy it today and possibly only get 3 years of security updates.

Plus we have the used market to consider, where you can pick up an “obsolete” machine that is still perfectly usable (but not supported by Apple).

And yes I know you could switch to a different operating system (at least with Intel machines), but that defeats the whole purpose of owning a Mac.

Maybe the EU can take care of this. No doubt this creates far more e-waste than the USBC/lightning port fiasco ever did.

Restrict new OS versions to newer machines. I’m fine with that. It’s refusing to provide basic security updates that is the main issue here.

 

[russell_314]

I’ll bite…

How long should Apple support their hardware?

 

[M4th]

How long should Apple support their hardware?

For the prices of these devices?

Support it for it's "entire life"... which of course opens the question of how long that really is.

More than seven years at least.

 

[russell_314]

For the prices of these devices?

Support it for it's "entire life"... which of course opens the question of how long that really is.

More than seven years at least.

So the price should dictate support length? What products follow this guideline? I’m not aware of any product that when you buy a more expensive version you get longer support. if I buy a $6000 Alienware gaming PC will I get a longer a warranty vs Dell’s basic laptop? How about a $2000 Samsung fold versus their $99 Samsung phone?

Also, what hardware companies offer support for more than seven years? Maybe 10 or even 15 years needs to be the standard, but is anyone else doing this?

 

[weckart]

So the price should dictate support length? What products follow this guideline? I’m not aware of any product that when you buy a more expensive version you get longer support. if I buy a $6000 Alienware gaming PC will I get a longer a warranty vs Dell’s basic laptop? How about a $2000 Samsung fold versus their $99 Samsung phone?

Also, what hardware companies offer support for more than seven years? Maybe 10 or even 15 years needs to be the standard, but is anyone else doing this?

It's complicated with Apple as it sells both the hardware and the OS that runs on it and has no competition in that sector of the market. Apple is in the unique position of being able to obsolete its own hardware. On non-Apple hardware, Windows and Linux just run and run and the lifetime of a machine is measured in speed and responsiveness, not a kill switch from the manufacturer. Even Microsoft backtracked on the hardware requirements for Windows 11. I cannot see Apple ever bending like that.

OCLP has dampened down the wailing on the Apple side otherwise there would be more gnashing of teeth. Anyone who was around for the switch from PPC to Intel will remember.

 

[AL2TEACH]

I could be wrong but in the past, I remember (again, I could be wrong) when an updated OS came around an older machine would only download from the disc what would work and not what it couldn't. Again, I could be wrong it's been awhile

It’s refusing to provide basic security updates that is the main issue here.

Maybe the EU will come to the rescue again

 

[staypuftforums]

I’ll bite…

How long should Apple support their hardware?

I think 10 years minimum, for basic security updates. Restrict features all you want. Restrict new OS versions too. But the machine should be usable for a minimum of 10 years from first day of release.

Some machines purchased direct from Apple refurbished store might only get 3-4 years of use, and then become paper weights.

I bought my 2019 iMac towards the end of 2022. It might be obsolete and no longer supported by Apple only 2 years from now. It’s bordering on fraud, in my opinion.

 

[Anonymous Freak]

Especially considering these machines are sometimes sold direct from Apple for 2 or more years between updates. Mac Mini went 4 years between updates at one time.

And then there’s Apple’s refurbished store, which is currently selling iMacs that were released in 2021. You buy it today and possibly only get 3 years of security updates.

Plus we have the used market to consider, where you can pick up an “obsolete” machine that is still perfectly usable (but not supported by Apple).

And yes I know you could switch to a different operating system (at least with Intel machines), but that defeats the whole purpose of owning a Mac.

Maybe the EU can take care of this. No doubt this creates far more e-waste than the USBC/lightning port fiasco ever did.

Restrict new OS versions to newer machines. I’m fine with that. It’s refusing to provide basic security updates that is the main issue here.

A $10,000 Dell workstation purchased in 2017 cannot run Windows 11, which came out in 2021, only 4 years later.

This is how computers work. Sometimes you get lucky and have a period of time when support is longer, sometimes shorter.

Of note - the last PowerPC Mac only got OS support for *TWO YEARS* after it was discontinued. The last Intel Mac has already gotten far longer life.

The last 680x0 Mac only got OS updates for two years as well.

 

[staypuftforums]

So the price should dictate support length? What products follow this guideline? I’m not aware of any product that when you buy a more expensive version you get longer support. if I buy a $6000 Alienware gaming PC will I get a longer a warranty vs Dell’s basic laptop? How about a $2000 Samsung fold versus their $99 Samsung phone?

Also, what hardware companies offer support for more than seven years? Maybe 10 or even 15 years needs to be the standard, but is anyone else doing this?

Consumer protection laws generally factor in cost of the product. It’s why there are laws covering electronics and not toothpicks.

A Windows PC purchased in 2009 is still getting updates (for free) from Microsoft. And will until the end of this year. That’s 16 years of updates.

 

[russell_314]

It's complicated with Apple as it sells both the hardware and the OS that runs on it and has no competition in that sector of the market. Apple is in the unique position of being able to obsolete its own hardware. On non-Apple hardware, Windows and Linux just run and run and the lifetime of a machine is measured in speed and responsiveness, not a kill switch from the manufacturer.

What sector of market does Apple not have any competition? What is this kill switch you speak of? I’m not aware of any such feature that is implemented with Apple computers.

I think 10 years minimum, for basic security updates. Restrict features all you want. Restrict new OS versions too. But the machine should be usable for a minimum of 10 years from first day of release.

Some machines purchased direct from Apple refurbished store might only get 3-4 years of use, and then become paper weights.

I bought my 2019 iMac towards the end of 2022. It might be obsolete and no longer supported by Apple only 2 years from now. It’s bordering on fraud, in my opinion.

So you’re saying 10 years minimum. What other brands of computer hardware offer 10 year support? You can’t expect Apple to offer something that no one else offers so there must be other brands of computers you’re buying that offer 10 years or longer support.

I’m not saying, Apple shouldn’t do this, but if we’re going to expect Apple to do this then it must be a reasonable expectation. That means other brands are doing this.

A $10,000 Dell workstation purchased in 2017 cannot run Windows 11, which came out in 2021, only 4 years later.

This is how computers work. Sometimes you get lucky and have a period of time when support is longer, sometimes shorter.

It is unfortunate. However, just like an unsupported Mac it still works though.

Of note - the last PowerPC Mac only got OS support for *TWO YEARS* after it was discontinued. The last Intel Mac has already gotten far longer life.

The last 680x0 Mac only got OS updates for two years as well.

Two years of OS support is just ridiculous. There’s no excusing that. Whoever made that decision at Apple was just wrong in my opinion.

Consumer protection laws generally factor in cost of the product. It’s why there are laws covering electronics and not toothpicks.

This is true, but I don’t think you get vastly more protection when you spend $2000 versus spending $1000. even so I don’t think there’s anything requiring manufacturers to support their product for a decade.

A Windows PC purchased in 2009 is still getting updates (for free) from Microsoft. And will until the end of this year. That’s 16 years of updates.

That would be Windows 7 and Microsoft does not support Windows 7. You might be able to download old updates, but there is no current support for it. There are so many known security vulnerabilities in Windows 7 so I hope you don’t think it’s safe to use that on the Internet.

 

[Bigwaff]

Restrict new OS versions to newer machines. I’m fine with that. It’s refusing to provide basic security updates that is the main issue here.

Hardware does not become obsolete nor useless nor insecure for practical use because security updates are no longer available for versions of macOS. Web browser security is more worrisome. An uncle of mine uses a 2014 MacBook Air with Big Sur + Firefox (latest) + Apple Mail and has never once had malware or virus. And his knowledge of computers can fit in a thimble.

 

[Tubamajuba]

I bought my 2019 iMac towards the end of 2022. It might be obsolete and no longer supported by Apple only 2 years from now. It’s bordering on fraud, in my opinion.

Out of curiosity, why did you buy an Intel iMac two years after the introduction of Apple Silicon?

 

[ignatius345]

Out of curiosity, why did you buy an Intel iMac two years after the introduction of Apple Silicon?

My question exactly. It's not like everyone didn't know Apple had left Intel at that point.

 

[macbookj0e]

I agree at least security fixes should be supported longer than 7 years.

It’s ironic that apple’s generally solid and reliable hardware benefit is negated by software updates, or a lack of.

 

[staypuftforums]

Out of curiosity, why did you buy an Intel iMac two years after the introduction of Apple Silicon?

I got a great deal on eBay and it was a huge upgrade over what I owned at the time, which was an AMD Athlon CPU from the Windows 7 era.

 

[sw1tcher]

Only 7 years of support from release date is unacceptable for a $2000+ personal computer.

Especially considering these machines are sometimes sold direct from Apple for 2 or more years between updates. Mac Mini went 4 years between updates at one time.

Apple supports the Mac for more than 7 years. Take the 2014 Mac mini as an example. Last OS officially compatible with it is macOS 12 (a.k.a. Monterey). Monterey last received an update (12.7.4) on July 29, 2024. That's nearly 10 years of support!

If we look at the Mac Pro, the last Mac Pro compatible with Monterey and no macOS after that is the 2013 Mac Pro. That's nearly 11 years of support.

As for the iMac, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro, it was the 2015 model year that couldn't officially run anything after Monterey. That's 9 years of support.

 

[Tubamajuba]

I got a great deal on eBay and it was a huge upgrade over what I owned at the time, which was an AMD Athlon CPU from the Windows 7 era.

Fair enough, but you should have done your research before buying it. It was well known by that point that Apple was phasing out Intel machines.

 

[Hobbes44]

I got a great deal on eBay and it was a huge upgrade over what I owned at the time, which was an AMD Athlon CPU from the Windows 7 era.

OK, so you got a good deal. And it’s still working, right? (I think it should be, given my 2017 MacBook is still working)?

So what’s the problem? You bought a legacy device knowing that the manufacturer had moved to a new processor family, and you’re still able to use it.

If you want something running on an M processor you could sell your device and buy something more recent…

 

[sw1tcher]

I think 10 years minimum, for basic security updates. Restrict features all you want. Restrict new OS versions too. But the machine should be usable for a minimum of 10 years from first day of release.

A machine that no longer gets security updates doesn't mean it's not usable anymore. I have a 2015 MacBook Air that stopped receiving updates last July. I still use it from time to time (mainly during the weekends), and I will continue to use it for at least the next year or two.

 

[attohs]

Also, what hardware companies offer support for more than seven years? Maybe 10 or even 15 years needs to be the standard, but is anyone else doing this?

I think this thread is ridiculous. That said, my absurdly over priced and built like tanks washing machine and dryer have a 20 year parts guarantee.

 

[ThailandToo]

For the prices of these devices?

Support it for it's "entire life"... which of course opens the question of how long that really is.

More than seven years at least.

I do think you should have the right to pay to repair it for up to ten years from purchase date. Agree, Apple could at least do battery replacements and software updates for longer. $2,000 doesn’t even touch the potential. What about $75k Mac Pros that were sold knowing they would be worthless as soon as the M-Series SoCs were released.

 

[poorcody]

I think seven years is pretty reasonable. Apple philosophically will push "older" technology out much more than companies like Microsoft that emphasize backward compatibility. Buying into the Apple ecosystem means buying into that. And I prefer it that way because supporting old software is a complex and insecure undertaking, which ends up causing problems for everyone (IMO).

 

[theorist9]

I think 10 years minimum, for basic security updates.

Apple's support (to the end of security updates) averages 8.6 years from when the machine was introduced, and 7.5 years from when it was discontinued. So the former figure isn't that far from yours. Here's the data, from Andrew Cunningham at https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/202...till-getting-fewer-updates-than-they-used-to/

Not that it wouldn't be nice if they added more time to the security support so it was a minimum of ten years for all devices.

I got a great deal on eBay and it was a huge upgrade over what I owned at the time, which was an AMD Athlon CPU from the Windows 7 era.

Of course, you get less time if you buy a used machine that's no longer current, but that factors into the market price; it''s part of the reason they cost less.

But you can't expect Apple to count the time from whenever you buy, since that could be anytime. You can buy a 2013 "trashcan" Mac Pro on eBay today. Does that mean Apple should support that machine for another 9 years (until 2034, which is 21 years from when it was current)?

 

[tonmischa]

Some machines purchased direct from Apple refurbished store might only get 3-4 years of use, and then become paper weights.

No more security updates = paper weight?
Very interesting. Please elaborate.

 

[TechnoMonk]

My 8 k workstation came with 1 year warranty, 3 more extended warranty and manufacturer won’t support after 5 years and I need to pay third parties for support.