What does this mean? What does personal computer have to do with anything?
What’s the argument *against* Apple extending security updates by a few years? Nobody is even bothering to offer one. They just say “it’s ridiculous”. Why?
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Only 7 years of support from release date is unacceptable for a $2000+ personal computer.
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What’s the argument *against* Apple extending security updates by a few years? Nobody is even bothering to offer one. They just say “it’s ridiculous”. Why?
Apple releases security updates for older devices. Honestly, if I’m keeping a device that old, it’s good enough for me.
Old silicone limits the number of updates devices can receive. As a result, I upgrade my devices more frequently than a regular consumer because I can easily notice the reduced performance.
For example, my 2018 iPad Pro became extremely slow after receiving many OS updates. Certain features simply didn’t function as expected. However, the value for regular consumers was still there. The device could still play videos and browse the web, but it was sluggish for tasks that required more productivity.
Old silicone limits the number of updates devices can receive. As a result, I upgrade my devices more frequently than a regular consumer because I can easily notice the reduced performance.
For example, my 2018 iPad Pro became extremely slow after receiving many OS updates. Certain features simply didn’t function as expected. However, the value for regular consumers was still there. The device could still play videos and browse the web, but it was sluggish for tasks that required more productivity.
OK, so Windows 10 is pretty much end of life as of this year for regular consumers.
So Windows 11 still technically requires the TPM 2.0 whatever but let’s say we’re going to hack that even though that’s unsupported we’re just we’re going to pretend that doesn’t exist.
Then we hit with hardware requirements, which is basically what Apple is doing for their operating systems. All the documentation I can see for Microsoft says 8th gen Intel processor or newer. That means August 2017 or newer. So by that math, it appears Microsoft is supporting about 8 years back. A little bit better than what Apple is doing, but not quite 10 years.
Also, Microsoft is known to support hardware that causes subpar performance for their operating systems. Apple tries to avoid this because if someone updates their pretty iMac to macOS Martha’s Vineyard and all the sudden it’s a lag fest, they are losing their minds. One could argue with that let the customer decide and just pop a warning saying this is unsupported. Technically you can do that anyway with a workaround, but it’s not supported by Apple.
Either way I don’t see anyone offering 10+ years OS support. Maybe this exists on the Linux side? I’m fairly certain there are current versions of Linux that will run perfectly fine on even 20 year old hardware. I don’t know if any of these ship with computers though since the idea is, the hardware manufacturer should support their hardware with an operating system for at least 10 years.
I got a 2017 MacBook Pro that not only is stuck on Ventura, which isn’t as bad as other versions luckily, but also doesn’t support some basic collaboration tools anymore. Opening Pages, I get a warning I should use it on a newer Mac. That’s ridiculous. My sister has a 10 year old windows laptop that can still perfectly be used to collaborate on simple documents, even if it didn’t run Windows 11, which it does perfectly.
So the hardware isn’t really the problem, especially now with M Macs.
Edit: that said, we don’t know for how long Apple will provide updates to M series Macs. I just got a used upgraded M1 Pro MacBook Pro and was surprised to see it fully supports Apple Intelligence.
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A bit off topic, but you will need Microsoft’s Extended Security Update (ESU) program for Windows 10 which is a paid program. I think you will have to pay for each year you want support.
Did you lodge the same complaint against Microsoft when they rendered millions of computers incompatible with Windows 11 because they lacked TPM support? Now that Windows 10 is going EOL, those machines will all be effectively mothballed unless everyone installs some form of Linux on them.
The expected device lifetime across the entire tech world is typically 3-5 years. As far as apple is concerned, you can get AppleCare for 3 years, at which point the device is considered end of life.
Don't like it? Find another tech product that is on sale, receives software updates, warranty, etc. beyond 5 years. Enterprise storage and network equipment? Sure - but you pay a heap for it on a support contract. Often, by 5 years the support contract is worth more than buying new hardware.
You could also have easily bought a PC with a processor that doesn't support the Windows 10/11 TPM and CPU feature set requirements.
Buy old generation hardware that has been announced as EOL, get short term support.
Correct. Microsoft will support ancient platforms if you pay them enough. Not for free though!
The problem with sentiments like these is that Apple has essentially made the Macs unrepairable for so long by gluing and making all components part of one logic board soldered together. Apple brags about making their products environmentally friendly but true friendly is not making disposable products but allowing consumers to fix modify and do whatever they want for years to come.
What kill switch are you referring to? You mean discontinuing security updates? Windows offers free security updates forever? I’ve never owned a Windows PC for more than maybe five years so I honestly don’t know, but that would be surprising to me.
Careful, unless you can back this up somehow, this kind of exaggeration borders on outright lying. I used my 2012 MacBook Pro for 8 years straight, and occasionally for 2 years after that, and it’s still not a paper weight as it could still offer many functions.
Fraud means there was a specific lie. What was that lie?
You seem to throw words around without regard to what they mean.
That’s very surprising to me. Are you referring to all Windows PC from 2009 or a specific one or group?
If not supporting hardware forever is planned obsolescence then I suppose you could call it that. But I don’t think that’s reasonable since support for any amount of time involves significant money and logistics. You say ten years is reasonable (maybe, maybe not), but someone else might still call that planned obsolescence. So who is right?
Again with the throwing around words. It makes you lose credibility when you do that, which you should care about if you want to convince people of your stance.
So, you want to get software support based on your purchase date, not the product release date?
EU Cyber Resilience Act (2024) says five years, and seems like not meeting your demand.
I don’t really know that there is any argument for or against. 7 vs 10 vs 15–it’s not really an objective thing to argue, it’s subjective opinion.
I love how they're ignoring every comment that makes this point.
Windows does not do machine specific security updates. They do for platforms - i.e. Intel processors. You generally don't have to do the OCLP dance just to get older hardware to run the latest version.
That is usually how Apple does things. If it continues to sell otherwise obsolete hardware past the cut-off date of its contemporaries, then it usually gets updates for a bit longer, though not always the 5-7 years of new hardware. Case in point, the 2014 Mac Mini, not replaced until 2018 and the 2013 Mac Pro, not replaced until 2019. The Trashcan only got security updates for two years after it was replaced by the MP 2019, so anyone who bought one in 2019 would not have had their fair share of support. No OS updates past Monterey and only 24 months of security updates is a poor return, however you spin it. Apple doesn't discount with age, either. You paid full whack for the Trashcan in 2019.
Yeah but the $10k Dell workstation is still getting Windows 10 updates now, and all software still runs on it. And you can extend Windows 10 support and updates at EOL (October this year, I think?) for another 3 years if you pay Microsoft an extended support fee. So more than 11 years of software support.
Many times the cut off for operating system updates on older hardware doesn’t make sense because many times it isn’t about specs.
It’s also a business argument. Why continue to make software updates when those software updates are free and mean that’s one less customer buying a new Mac.
But in the very near future Apple will be coming up against environmental issues that just cannot be wished away anymore.
Their devices have increasingly become less user serviceable and upgradable.
I predict there will come a point where they may officially allow Linux versions to be run on older hardware and recycling schemes where they will effectively be made to take back devices to avoid e waste filling landfills.
And that support cycles will be 10 years or more for their major OS.
And just as microsoft surface have done with their own devices. Allow critical components such as SSD etc to be modular and swappable. We may end up with a module that is for the SoC that can be replaced and allow a device to be upgraded a generation or two.
It’s also a business argument. Why continue to make software updates when those software updates are free and mean that’s one less customer buying a new Mac.
But in the very near future Apple will be coming up against environmental issues that just cannot be wished away anymore.
Their devices have increasingly become less user serviceable and upgradable.
I predict there will come a point where they may officially allow Linux versions to be run on older hardware and recycling schemes where they will effectively be made to take back devices to avoid e waste filling landfills.
And that support cycles will be 10 years or more for their major OS.
And just as microsoft surface have done with their own devices. Allow critical components such as SSD etc to be modular and swappable. We may end up with a module that is for the SoC that can be replaced and allow a device to be upgraded a generation or two.
It has no competition in the macOS sector. There is no longer any Umax, Power Computing or StarMax to undercut Apple any more. If you want to run your macOS applications, you have to buy hardware from Apple or take your chances with a hackintosh for as long as that still works.
Apple alone decides how long macOS will support its hardware. You can either try to hack OSes onto your hardware beyond its supported life but sooner or later stuff either doesn't run, runs in a less than stable manner or application updates require the latest iteration of macOS leaving you with legacy versions unless you buy newer hardware. This does not happen anything like as severely on Windows or Linux.
Not true on the Dell Workstation. Microsoft has rowed back on that.
Microsoft Dropping the TPM 2.0 Requirement for Windows 11 - PC Outlet
Microsoft has made a significant change to its Windows 11 upgrade policy. The company now allows users to install Windows 11 on systems that do not meet the
pcoutlet.com
Having said that, I doubt there will too many rushing to update to Windows 11 unless it is really required for business given how much hate it is getting.
The Trashcan was similarly dumped like the last gen G5 PowerMacs. Two years of security updates after 2019 and see you, sucker.