Problem with windows is driver compatibility and vendor support. Dell/HP and others do t support for ever.
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Only 7 years of support from release date is unacceptable for a $2000+ personal computer.
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I find this claim highly spurious. Maybe not as-is, but manufacturers have been including TPM headers on all but budget boards for years before that which is really the only blocker for Windows 11. I have Supermicro boards from 2012 that can be made Win 11 compatible with a $30 TPM 2 module.
In what sense is it "ridiculous" then?
Every machine capable of running Windows 7 can run Windows 10 today.
My issue is that a perfectly awesome personal computer may turn into a paperweight clump of e-waste 2 years from now for no reason other than Apple's planned obsolescence strategy.
I don't think it's a wild request that the 3rd largest company on planet earth provide bare-bones security updates for the computers they sell, for a set period of say 10 years.
In the 1990s, it would have been an unreasonable request, as technology was progressing too fast to make this workable. But today, the PC is a mature product and the computer you buy today should still be perfectly usable 10 years from now.
Don't sell me a bunch of lies about "going GREEN" and then brick my PC for no other reason than you want me to buy a new one.
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Good luck getting Dell and Hp to support drivers more than 7-8 years. If you have older machine chances are you are stuck with basic windows drivers on Windows 10 with base resolution. That is problem in windows world, software support and vendor support are different.
It’s industry standard. Have you dealt with other manufacturers? My 5 year old Workstation is already running in to comparability issues. Sure I wish my 5 k M1 Max is supported for ever, but it won’t.
Thanks for the chart. Very interesting. And kinda shows how reasonable my proposed requirement would be.
FYI, I bought my iMac new on eBay. And part of my reasoning behind 10 years of support is that it covers people buying used machines, which is very common. The goal here is to both protect consumers and to reduce e-waste.
I owned an Acer from maybe 2010 or 2011. It came with Windows 7 pre-installed. What drivers was I missing out on? None that I'm aware of.
I bought a budget Acer pre-built from Best Buy around 2011. I could still be running it today if I really wanted to (it was starting to physically degrade and I think the power supply was dying).
I even managed to install Windows 11 on it before I dumped it in the trash, which means I could technically be using it for at least another 5 years had I wanted to.
2011 to 2030... not bad for software support, I'd say.
The reason behind trashing your PC should be because it no longer functions as you'd like it to. Not that a trillion dollar mega-company decided they don't want to provide security updates any longer. It's just such a waste.
Well.. I have the Lenovo IdeaPad Y460, which came out around 2010. It has the Intel Core i5 520M processor, 4GB RAM, AMD Radeon HD 5650. Windows 7 pre-installed. When Windows 10 20H1 comes out, HDMI port and audio divers will not function anymore (as I did clean installation since I wanted to update old hard drive to SSD).
But in general, if you are buying into Apple's ecosystem, you are aware of the future software updates are in mercy of Apple's discretion. Apple never had good track record on supporting older MacBooks. We were lucky to have OCLP, so that we can jam newer MacOS version into unsupported devices.
But I still think 7 years of support is still too short for computers. My ThinkPad T420 still works with Windows 10, which came out in 2010 and I brought around 2014 as refurbished device, still work fantastically with Windows 10. RAM upgrade alone with SSD upgrade, it runs Windows 10 like charm. Still receiving Windows 10 updates. It is hooked up with TV at living room as family computer.
I don't know. As far as I can tell, Windows 10 supports older Intel graphic card pretty well. Windows 10 has no problem installing graphic drivers for Sandy Bridge processors and it works fine.
Older Nvidia graphics card still have Windows 10 drivers, even the old Nvidia 470 still works under Windows 10. I don't know about Windows 11.
It’s a common issue and widely known if you have bought HP/Dell and others with drivers.
Apple policy is clear though. 5-7 years of support after they stop selling the device. But it’s usually 8-9 years from the time they start selling a Mac. And after 8-9 years the mac won’t stop running, folks here use OCLIP which I personally don’t, but I budget my Mac’s/workstation for 5 years pro use and 3-4 years utility or personal.
This is more windows 11´s fault, rather than Dell’s. I guess you agree. I would run Ubuntu on it anyway
I assume you're saying that because your proposal isn't that different from what they do now.
Of course, that also makes the converse true: Since what they do now isn't that different from your proposal, that means what they're doing now is likewise reasonable by your standards.
Note also this isn't free for them; it costs them money to maintain security support. Plus Apple themselves have said the security support they offer during the two year extension isn't as complete as what's offered on newer OS's. And I suspect it would get more incomplete as the computer gets older.
Hence Apple may not want to offer that extra year or two of security support, if it's not up to their standards, since they don't want this to mislead customers into thinking their machine is decently-protected when it's not.
Again, not saying it wouldn't be nice to have them extend it to a decade. But I don't know how much of their decision not to do so is purely economic for Apple, and how much if it is practical. Probably a combination of the two.
Come now, "paperweight" is hyperbole.
Older machines can continue to be perfectly functional. In addition to my 2019 i9 iMac and 2021 16" M1 MacBook Pro, I also have a 15" 2014 MacBook Pro that I use frequently to sync my iPod and also when I want to go mobile and would prefer something lighter than the 16" M1.
It’s my understanding that Apple guarantees hardware service and parts for at least five years after it stops selling a Mac model, not from the date the model was first released. macOS security updates are provided for the current release and its two previous major versions, so about three more years once your Mac loses support. Depending on when you buy, you 8 years or more of security updates.
E.g., Purchase a Mac in 2020 at the end of the release cycle (model also gets discontinued in 2020). Support ends in 2025, and the 2025 macOS release is the last major version the system will support. Security updates will continue until the 2028 macOS release comes, since the 2025 release will stop receiving security updates at that point. That's 8 years of security updates, despite buying at the end of the release cycle. This is more than fair.
There has to be a balance. Supporting a Mac for the entirety of it's "lifespan" is not feasible. It hinders progress.
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Where is OP getting these numbers from?
Just a few weeks ago, Apple released a security update for MacOS 13 Ventura, which supports hardware as far back as 2017. That's 8 years and still going. I think that's pretty reasonable.
Just a few weeks ago, Apple released a security update for MacOS 13 Ventura, which supports hardware as far back as 2017. That's 8 years and still going. I think that's pretty reasonable.
I bought a new Nintendo DSi on eBay in 2021... they stopped producing those in 2012. Don't just rely on whether the product is new or used, do actual research on what you're buying. If you did, you would have known that Macs typically only get 7 to 8 years of security updates.
Yeah, 7 years is not correct. Macs get major OS releases for 5 years, and Apple supports the two prior OS releases with security updates. You don't stop getting security updates until you're 3 major OS version behind, so that's 8 years of security updates at a minimum.
Well kind of, but I think it’s interesting to see what people think about this kind of stuff. That’s pretty impressive that it has 20 parts guaranteed but I suspect labor is going to be triple what the part cost. Speed queen?
And Windows 10 is also no longer supported and in the same category with Windows 7.
I think OP feels there should be at least 10 year at a minimum support from Apple.
I’m just not sure that’s realistic, but it would be awesome if that was possible. I was hoping that may be some other manufacturer was already doing this so it could be easy as saying we’ll see Samsung does it so Apple should be able to do it as well. Unfortunately, I don’t think any electronics brand has extended support that long. At least not for software and security updates.
It's not about how much it costs, it's a personal computer.
I'm okay with 7 year hardware and software support.
I'm okay with 7 year hardware and software support.
This data break down is really great to sift through on this topic: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/202...till-getting-fewer-updates-than-they-used-to/
Windows 10 is still fully supported until October of this year.
If you install the IoT version, you get support until 2032 I believe.