Open letter from a Pro about the actual MacBook Pro

[maflynn]

So your critique of the device is "I want my logo more glowey",

No I critique a device that lost the SD slot (which I need), the HDMI port (which I use), the loss of the magsafe connector, which has saved my laptop a number of times, all the while increasing the price. The loss of the logo and chime is more indicative of apple no longer being distinctive. At one time Apple poked fun of its competitors producing beige boxes and chided people to think different. Now they're basically producing those same beige boxes, there's very little to the MBP design that sets it apart from other makers.

"I refuse to re-eneable the chime in terminal"

I never said I refused to re-enable it, most because I don't need too, since I'm not buying the new MBPs

and "Alienware makes some pile of garbage with a desktop GPU that has no business being there in it"

Given your opinion of the "stupid" apple logo (your words), I'm not exactly looking to you for advice regarding alienware.

 

[Apple_Robert]

No argument there, Apple is on the top of the heap with SSD speeds, but processing and GPU, Alienware is faster.


You may call the glowing logo stupid, I would call it distintive. It used to be that the MBP would stand out, now it looks just like any other laptop


Same with the chime, everything that made the mac special has been removed, you may not care, but many of us (especially long term mac users) do care.

Mike, you sound like an Apple elitist with the Apple logo comment.

Maybe someone will create a plastic LED Apple logo that can be magnetically attached to the MBP, for those in need to purchase.

 

[jackoatmon]

The loss of the logo and chime is more indicative of apple no longer being distinctive. At one time Apple poked fun of its competitors producing beige boxes and chided people to think different. Now they're basically producing those same beige boxes, there's very little to the MBP design that sets it apart from other makers.

How interested are you in design, really? Are you sitting around looking at old Deiter Rams catalogues? And obsessing over the finish and weave on your Aeron? Are you reviewing Bauhaus typset usage on Saturday nights? Are you researching whether your next shoes should be oxford or Derby cut? Are you seriously criticizing Jonny Ive's taste in design?

These machines are ****ing gorgeous and amazingly distinctive. They're amazingly understated and professional looking.

They're the goddamn Hermès of computers.

 

[Apple_Robert]

How interested are you in design, really? Are you sitting around looking at old Deiter Rams catalogues? And obsessing over the finish and weave on your Aeron? Are you reviewing Bauhaus typset usage on Saturday nights? Are you really criticizing Jonny Ive's taste in design?

These machines are ****ing gorgeous and amazingly distinctive. They're amazingly understated and professional looking.

They're the goddamn Hermès of computers.

Your name isn't Johnny is it?

 

[aevan]

How interested are you in design, really? Are you sitting around looking at old Deiter Rams catalogues? And obsessing over the finish and weave on your Aeron? Are you reviewing Bauhaus typset usage on Saturday nights? Are you researching wether your next shoes should be oxford or Derby cut? Are you seriously criticizing Jonny Ive's taste in design?

These machines are ****ing gorgeous and amazingly distinctive. They're amazingly understated and professional looking.

They're the goddamn Hermès of computers.

Couldn't agree more. Nothing comes close.
[doublepost=1479083514][/doublepost]

Your name isn't Johnny is it?

No, everyone who is into design will, pretty much, tell you the same. Btw, you guys are really becoming boring with all ”Are you Phil/Tim/Jony” jokes. Time to get new material.

 

[cmaier]

So?

Rational people pay by the kWh capacity of the battery, not the amount of time they can use the machine on battery . I guess.

 

[jackoatmon]

Your name isn't Johnny is it?

Haha I just get so motivated when I hear people who probably wear like, loose-fit jeans and old t-shirts to work start talking down about design and saying "this is ugly/boring" when they probably shop at Ikea and think Avengers movies are well-composed cinema.

 

[aevan]

Rational people pay by the kWh capacity of the battery, not the amount of time they can use the machine on battery . I guess.

Hahaha. I guess so.

 

[maflynn]

How interested are you in design, really?

Enough to know that if I'm going to spend a lot of money for a premium product, I care about its design.

These machines are ****ing gorgeous and amazingly distinctive. They're amazingly understated and professional looking.

That's your opinion, not mine.

 

[aevan]

Enough to know that if I'm going to spend a lot of money for a premium product, I care about its design.


That's your opinion, not mine.

I know it's a matter of taste and all, but if you think Alienware computers have a nice design and the MBPs are boring.... I really have nothing to say to you. Enjoy your Alienwares, I guess.

 

[jackoatmon]

That's your opinion, not mine.

Which is why I'm calling you out and saying, if that's your opinion there's an extremely high likelihood you know jack **** about industrial design. And you probably think good design is whatever happens to be something you want, rather than having any sense whatsoever of aesthetics and the history of American manufacturing.

 

[kazmac]

I agree with the arguments the pros in this open letter make (as with many professionals here who have issues with the changes and limitations Apple are offering now). While I am still very bummed about Apple's lack of tact and hubris (in their attitude and pricing), I've decided not to waste my time being angry and deal with them as I do everything else now.

That said, I do hope they come to their senses and realize how much more respect and profits they will make by continuing to offer products that a variety of customers can benefit from and want, not just a fashionable niche.

 

[Appleaker]

For the most part, the matte screen protectors can sort out the display issue. If they don't think the Touch Bar will be useful, then they simply shouldn't use it and make it display the standard keys there.

There's a valid point about the RAM, but I guess there is reasoning behind it and it simply isn't possible.

The most significant point is the ports. Apple did an amazing job at fitting the same processors and better performance into a much thinner body, but the ports simply aren't acceptable for Pros. It would interrupt their vision, but just 1 USB A and an SD card slot (along with the current IO of course) would solve this. If they could fit it, then an HDMI port would be useful.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Couldn't agree more. Nothing comes close.
[doublepost=1479083514][/doublepost]

No, everyone who is into design will, pretty much, tell you the same. Btw, you guys are really becoming boring with all ”Are you Phil/Tim/Jony” jokes. Time to get new material.

That is the second time I have ever used that line in 4 plus years here. Don't lump me in with everyone else. I don't like logical fallacies.

 

[jackoatmon]

of note: the latest Alienware laptops have the same CPUs as the 2.6 MBP, much slower storage, way crappier screen, also have 16gb of RAM and the 15" weighs 8 pounds. 8 POUNDS!

Sweet can't wait to fire up that NVIDIA GTX brooooooo!

Man my clients are going to think I'm sooooo proooooo!

Check me out playing Mafia III on this beautifully designed machine. Pew pew pew!

 

[makdeniss]

I am a software dev. The only drawback I have with this new machine is the amount of RAM. I don't really think I need it all now, but I will definately need in the coming 2-3 years. That's the least amount of time I plan to hold on to this new machine if I decide to purchase it.

I kind of understand where Apple is going with the removal of ports and everything. They want things to go wireless and to the cloud. They want you to let go of the idea that you need wires or sticks or boxes to do your regular things. And this is not merely targeted at the people who are going to use this laptop but also at the companies that produce usb storage, projectors, and etc.

We have seen this shift in software development a long time ago when we got introduced to version control and everything else that came out of it. Suddently we didn't need any hard drives or other portable storage to do our job.

Apple is pushing for new radical solutions and being a revolusionist here again. And we see that this comes at a cost, because most people and companies do not welcome change. As always.

As for magsafe, I do not welcome this change, because this has saved me from losing my laptop a couple of times, but I may explain it due to usb c being a more efficient and fast charger.

Personally my only dilemma now is to get a laptop with touch bar or get one without it. I am not really sure I can be more productive with it and if the software I use will implement it and rely on it heavily in the coming 2-3 years.

 

[aevan]

not just a fashionable niche.

You don't get it.

1. If you need more than what they offer, you're the niche.
2. Nothing wrong with being fashionable per se, but I don't think anyone is buying these expensive computers for fashion reasons. I certainly am not. We're buying them because they are powerful, portable workhorses with amazing technologies. What does that have to do with being fashionable?
3. If anything, I could say: I hope Apple keeps on making computers for the majority of serious pros, not caving to a gamer niche.
[doublepost=1479101348][/doublepost]

I don't really think I need it all now, but I will definately need in the coming 2-3 years.

I am not really sure I can be more productive with it and if the software I use will implement it and rely on it heavily in the coming 2-3 years.

Every year I see people buying computers with "future-proofing" in mind. But their logic is usually flawed. First of all, requirements don't rise as fast these days, I am practically certain that if your workflow doesn't require more hardware today, you'll be fine for the next 4 years. Second, even if there is a bottleneck down the road it's more likely to be something else: hdd space, GPU, new connection technologies, etc. Honestly, if you really want future proofing it would be smarter to look at ports than RAM, and I'd say you're fine there. Why is everyone making RAM the one thing where hardware requirements are somehow going to double during the computer's lifetime?
If you're fine with 16Gb now - and, if you have to ask, you almost certainly are - you'll be fine with it by the time the machine has run its course.

 

[bjet767]

Ok I asked a day or so ago for someone to prove the need for more than 16 (or even 8) gigs of ram (beyond running multiple VMs, something I clearly admit works better with more ram). According to my search of the net even the most robust video, audio and photo programs do not use more than 16 these days.

I did find a thread of ubuntu/unix users who were discussing how much swap memory they might need, and again beyond 16 was considered a waste of money. There was one point made where more than 16 is useful on a busy server that is handling multiple threads at a time, something most personal users have no idea about.

I also get the idea many on this thread haven forgotten the main reason to jump from 1 to 2 to 4 and then to 8 gigs was not so much the program needs, but rather the growth from 8 bit to the current 64 bit OSs and the associated programs running our computers.

Basically as long as we are running 64 bit processors and OSs the "need" for more ram beyond 16 gig will be very rare for the normal pro user.

But I challenge and will submit to the results if some one can direct us to the need or maybe just improved performance of having more than 16 gigs of ram with OSX.

BTW most "pros" can use just about any computer, as long as it meets the need they are working at. And most "pros" don't do video, audio or photo processing on their computers.

Oh this morning I was running Xcode testing an iOS app for the Store, and had a video streaming in Safari at the same time on a "non-pro" 2015 12" rMB with 8 gigs of memory. I did notice my iOS simulation was a bit slower and my battery was draining rather rapidly (about 4 hours of use) and more memory was not the answer, CPU speed is. That is why I ordered the new MBP, SPEED!

 

[maflynn]

Which is why I'm calling you out

ooooh, I feel so called out

I never said I was a designer, or studied industrial design, but that doesn't mean my opinion is any less valued then yours. I offered my opinion and you seemed to take personal offense that someone would actually think that the MBP isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread. Its only a computer, and for me, it fails to fit my needs. Simple as that, some people seem to think this is a holy war, but no it's not

I know it's a matter of taste and all, but if you think Alienware computers have a nice design and the MBPs are boring.... I really have nothing to say to you. Enjoy your Alienwares, I guess.

Please review what I was saying, @jackoatmon said the MBP was the fastest and I (to use his words) called him out, and stated there are other laptops that are faster, such as Alienware and I believe Razor. I agreed in a subsequent post that Apple's SSD is top of the market, but the computer itself is slower then Alienware.

I don't even own an Alienware, so I can't be enjoying it

Here's my post.

Seriously, I don't consider it the fastest, Alienware and I believe Razor has faster machines.

 

[aevan]

ooooh, I feel so called out

I offered my opinion and you seemed to take personal offense that someone would actually think that the MBP isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread. Its only a computer, and for me, it fails to fit my needs. Simple as that, some people seem to think this is a holy war, but no it's not

No one is calling it a holy war nor claiming MacBook Pros are the greatest thing since sliced bread - they are simply refuting somewhat contradictory statements given by you and others here. You - and several other people - do have a tendency to go out of your way to prove that these MacBook Pros are somehow an obvious failure - even though a lot of people have demonstrated how this computer fits their needs perfectly. Your personal needs are one thing, only you know what they are, but things are becoming a little bit ridiculous. You started with ports, than with performance and RAM, now even the design is somehow wrong -- because of the glowing Apple logo? I know, you liked the logo. But saying that Apple laptops don't stand out in the crowd anymore?

Please, show me one laptop that has that level of sophistication and tasteful minimalism like the new MacBook Pros. Saying they don't stand out is like saying that, I don't know, Barcelona Chair by Mies van der Rohe is "just another chair". You don't have to like it for your living room, but if you study design, you will appreciate its design and will never say "it doesn't stand out just because it doesn't have glowing parts".

I can tell you - MacBooks are the most beautifuly designed laptops today - not only because they are so tasteful, but also because everything else is so bad. That is an artistic fact, something a first year design student can tell you. This is what jackoatmoon means. You don't have to enjoy that design, but if you're objective - you will respect it.

Apple minimalist design is rarely used in computers today, with only Microsoft trying something similar. I don't want to go into what someone personally considers beautiful, but if you're into design, you can appreciate what Apple is doing - and at the same time criticize what almost everyone else is doing too. It's like comparing Vivaldi to, say, Drake. Some people may dislike Vivaldi and enjoy Drake - nothing wrong with that - but it would be kinda wrong, no matter what your taste is, to claim that Vivaldi's music is not distinguishable in a world full of "Drakes". Every other laptop manufacturer, arguably with the exception of Microsoft, is either making poor copies of MacBooks or doing a very lousy job when it comes to visual design.

I never said I was a designer, or studied industrial design, but that doesn't mean my opinion is any less valued then yours.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think your opinion is less valued than his because of what you said, not because you didn't study industrial design. To my ears, you basically said something like "classical music is bad now, because they don't use electronic sound FX".

 

[macjunk(ie)]

As far as I know, the battery life is the same. And it has more ports in practice. Not everyone is so conservative

Battery life under load is NOT the same. Under light usage, the battery life is the same as before.

Correction: as per tests, almost same battery life compared to the 2015
A big difference between battery life on the 2016 under light and heavy load

 

[maflynn]

Please, show me one laptop that has that level of sophistication and tasteful minimalism like the new MacBook Pros.

I'm not saying the MBPs do not have great lines, or a wonderful design, but I have said, and I stand by my opinion that the loss of the glowing apple makes the MacBook Pro less unique and imo less apple like from a design perspective.

From actual usage, the removal of the ports that I've come to rely on, the butterfly keyboard which I hate, the force touch track pad (which I'm no fan of), and the smaller battery all means that the 2016 MBP is not a tool that fits my needs. The increase in price is just adding insult to injury as they say.

 

[aevan]

Battery life under load is NOT the same. Under light usage, the battery life is the same as before.

Since every major spending component - the CPU, the GPU and the screen - spend a lot less power, we just don't know that. We'll have to wait for tests. Of course, if you really want to somehow prove Apple is making worse computers, you don't really need tests, you can just claim whatever you feel like.
[doublepost=1479122426][/doublepost]

From actual usage, the removal of the ports that I've come to rely on, the butterfly keyboard which I hate, the force touch track pad (which I'm no fan of), and the smaller battery all means that the 2016 MBP is not a tool that fits my needs. The increase in price is just adding insult to injury as they say.

We still don't know if the battery life will be worse (that's what we care about, right, not the actual battery size). The rest is your personal opinion and I respect that.

That doesn't make MacBook Pros bad in any way, though. Just like the fact that I don't like scrambled eggs doesn't make them a bad breakfast

I'm kidding. I like scrambled eggs. It was just an example!

 

[maflynn]

The rest is your personal opinion and I respect that.

Agreed, and that's all I ever state, its my personal opinion and need. One size does not fit all, but it seems other members seem to think something is wrong with you if you don't think the MBP is the fastest, best computer ever made. It may not be the fastest (but its no slouch, it is a very fast computer), but whether its the best is a matter of personal preference.

 

[Oppenheim]

He describes himself as an "actual" pro? In the "photography & motion industry"? He speaks for all?

He recommends Apple "actually solicit advice" from "pros". That's not how Apple works. Apple designers decide what's best. Apple isn't a ground-up movement where everyone gets to have their little opinion. We had similar whining over optical drives and Ethernet ports - there'd be uproar if an Ethernet port appeared on the new design.

The article is a badly written, self-serving moan.