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Lawsuit fodder

So, it's ok for Apple to reject a competing browser, but Microsoft gets dragged through all that anti-trust stuff for not wanting to include Netscape? Hmmm...

This is a STUPID move on Apple's part. The only thing this will do is provide fodder for future lawsuits and government meddling. Those might be a few years off, but Apple is clearly demonstrating anti-competitive behavior today and it will most likely come back to bite them in the *ss.

Stupid, stupid, STUPID.
 
Theres no point in Opera crying because Apple wont let them play. They should stick it in Cydia or installer if they are that bothered!

Its my iPhone and I'll install what I like on it! Just because it cant go in the App store, doesn't mean you cant have it.
 
If Neelie Kroes (European Commissioner for Competition) hears this ...
You probably won't understand this, but the situation is not the same and the reason is ... there is no cut and paste on the iPhone.

It's also possible that the reverse is true. ;)
 
I agree that the more open source the iphone gets, the more were going to hear people bitching about crashes and other things of that nature. Apple is doing this to ensure that everything works so people wont bitch.

you have proof its a "better" browser?

And flash = battery destroyer. So you can either cry about not having flash (which PERSONALLY ive never needed on my touch) or you can cry about having ******(er) battery life.

pick your battles people.

Hmm, except the rejection notice mentioned nothing about stability or battery life...

Whether or not you believe Apple has the right to reject any app it pleases, it's hard to deny that this was rejected because Apple wants to maintain its browser superiority on the iPhone. The rejection letter basically screams it.

-Clive
 
I hope a month from now a rumor comes out stating that "Apple will allow Opera Browser on iPhone App Store", because I want to see 90% of those who argue in favor of not allowing Opera, defend the opposite side.
Fanboy goggles are cute.
 
but surely you agree it is anti-competitive...

Let's say Apple did allow Opera on the iPhone, and it had a security exploit that allowed people to brick your iPhone remotely, you think people are going to be blaming Opera when their phone doesn't work?
 
That's pretty ****. If I bought an iPhone I'd expect to be able to run whatever apps I'd want on it, sure I personally would probably use Safari anyway, but the ability to choose if I want to is important to me. I mean it's not like Apple exactly makes money from Safari do they? And if the Opera/Firefox apps were free why not allow them?
 
Let's say Apple did allow Opera on the iPhone, and it had a security exploit that allowed people to brick your iPhone remotely, you think people are going to be blaming Opera when their phone doesn't work?
I love your FUD. You do realize the same argument you use above can be applied to any network-enabled app currently on the app store, right?
 
Isn't there like a word for this... communism or something?
There may be a word but communism certainly is not it.

Let's say Apple did allow Opera on the iPhone, and it had a security exploit that allowed people to brick your iPhone remotely, you think people are going to be blaming Opera when their phone doesn't work?
I would hope that part of Apple's process for approving any app for the Store would to be verify, as much as possible, that exploits like this are not part of the code. I have an app on the Store, AKA, that generates your pirate, jedi, or stripper name based on some bits of personal information. A number of reviewers have expressed concern that the mother's maiden name and birthplace used to generate your jedi name might be harvested and used to steal their identity. My app does not transmit any information gathered and I would hope that Apple would have confirmed that before approving the app.
 
Let's say Apple did allow Opera on the iPhone, and it had a security exploit that allowed people to brick your iPhone remotely, you think people are going to be blaming Opera when their phone doesn't work?

Isn't there a similar case for all the other applications out there that have web interfaces?
 
This was obvious, if Opera didn't know this would happen then they didn't pay attention to what they were agreeing with for the developer program. :p

I can see why people would see it as anti-competitive, but it also helps control the development environment.

Developers of web sites and web apps know exactly what they have to deal with on iPhone/"iTouch"; and that is a good thing.
 
they'll build for other platforms. apple, i dunno about your restrictive policies. im not liking it, coming from a developer here. i will be interested to see what the app store policies are 1 year from now when the competition catches up. things will have to change.
 
There is a ton of FUD on this thread, and I've read through most of it. I hope to add some technical clarity from my software engineering background. Additionally, there is a lot of "black & white" thought being espoused, when the picture is much more appropriately described in shades of gray.

1. There is a very clear difference between the iPhone OS and native applications, the public API's (a subset of the iPhone SDK), and the distribution mechanism (the App Store) employed by Apple. They are not all the same thing, but collectively create the iPhone platform.

2. The platform itself is appropriately described as closed or "walled-garden" if you will, because Apple maintains strict control of the OS and native applications, as well as the distribution mechanism. Is this an open platform? No. Is this anti-competitive? Yes. Is this monopolistic with Apple's small market share? Not likely. Is this consistent with Apple's behavior with OSX and mac computers? Not directly, but it depends on your point of view. Has this been deemed illegal by any governing body? Not at present. Is there anything we can do to change this at present? Only complain. If you don't like it, take your money to a different platform.

3. The strength of the OS and native applications can technically be argued in many ways. Performance, security, stability, extensibility and many other factors are weighted against each other, but only so much can be done in a limited amount of time. Because Apple is so tight-lipped, we can only guess about where they've made trade-offs. Because they limit the distribution of 3rd party apps, we don't always know what sins they are covering up. Cut & paste, flash support, bluetooth radio programming and a myriad of other things MIGHT be limited because of short-cuts they've taken along the way. To speculate such info without decompiling/dissassembling is just that -- speculation.

4. The API's themselves are mostly open, with very little that can't be done. The problem that most are complaining about is the distribution system, since Apple has been inconsistent and capricious about releasing certain types of applications. As mentioned in (3) there may be reasons for that. What IS missing is an alternate way to distribute applications. It's unfortunate that the choices available at present are:
1) the App Store and it's limited model
2) ad hoc distribution limited to 99 units at a time
3) jailbreaking the phone and going a totally separate, unsupported route.

I personally don't think we should expect Apple to open their AppStore more than they already have, as developers agree to play by the rules when they enter the walled garden. What would be nice--but which I don't expect to happen--is for technically-savvy power users, who bear full responsibility for their actions, to be able to distribute and install applications outside of the AppStore, but still live in the non-jailbreaking world. Right now, the only way to install things not-approved by Apple is to compile the code and deploy it yourself using your developer certificate, or to jaibreak the phone. Neither approach is really ideal. In the mac computer world, you can install 3rd party apps that you obtain from non-Apple sources. Unfortunately there is no widely available mechanism to do this on the iPhone at this time.
 
This was obvious, if Opera didn't know this would happen then they didn't pay attention to what they were agreeing with for the developer program. :p

I can see why people would see it as anti-competitive, but it also helps control the development environment.

Developers of web sites and web apps know exactly what they have to deal with on iPhone/"iTouch"; and that is a good thing.

They probably had faith Apple was a bit more reasonable than they turned out to be.
 
Speaking of crashes!

I agree that the more open source the iphone gets, the more were going to hear people bitching about crashes ...

Speaking of crashes, Safari is the most crash prone app that I have on the iPhone.

I'm not a fan of Opera, but I do like Firefox very much and would jump at being able to run mobile FF on the iPhone!

So, I'd like to see alternative browsers allowed in -- especially given how flaky Safari is for me.
 
This anti-competitive behavior of Apple is one of the many reasons why I still regret that I bought an iPod Touch.

I originally bought it because I thought "ok, there will be an SDK available for it soon, so this is going to be an open device with a lot of software".

What happened is that it still is a closed system and its inventor and owner is doing a better job at suppressing innovation than Microsoft ever did.

Ultimately, openness always wins over closed platforms. With its last century business model, Apple is killing its own platform. It won't be long before most innovative software developers will abandon the Apple ship and move to other platforms - namely Android or Openmoko.
 
I'm looking forward to the day the apple gestapo rejects someone who has the means to drag them through a court and have them disemboweled for anti-competitive practices. Who knows, maybe apple will finally get rid of jobs, grow up and act like a real company instead of a petulant 3 year-old.
 
Apple. Be like Google.

Google forked OpenID, so they may not be the company that anyone should emulate either.

History is full of companies that alternately embrace and distance themselves from open, standards-based computing depending on their position in the market. Hubris is not particular to Apple, Microsoft, Google, or anyone else, and all are susceptible. This too shall pass when the market makes it necessary for Apple to play nice.
 
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