Uhm, I think we might have misunderstood each other. I believe that the whole MacBook Pro line will move to the retina display, both the 13" and the 15" models. I don't believe that there will be significant upgrades to the current non-retina line I have no doubt that Apple will introduce a 13" rMBO at some point though.
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Opinion... rMBP THAT much better than cMBP?
- Thread starter Orlandoech
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Uhm, I think we might have misunderstood each other. I believe that the whole MacBook Pro line will move to the retina display, both the 13" and the 15" models. I don't believe that there will be significant upgrades to the current non-retina line I have no doubt that Apple will introduce a 13" rMBO at some point though.
Agreed or you will be a Apple beta tester. Then more like Apple invest on you with half bake product with lot of glitches. And pay for a hefty premium price.
I really don't get all this hate towards apple's new products, I don't agree with people saying "omg you jelly much?" or "can't afford it?" but have you tried the product before criticize it? Most of the people that bash the retina haven't actually got their hands on it, and I mean really work on it, not just the 10 minutes at the apple store.
Of course next generation products will be better, but that happens with every single product, and that will have bugs as well, and the next one, and the one after that too.
Can you explain me what are those 'a lot of glitches'?
I have a current gen MBP, early 2011, with the Hi-Res display. In all honesty, it's fantastic. I run loads of tracks in my music software, I do audio-visual shows running live sound and video simultaneously, and it does it without a hiccup.
I also own an external Firewire audio-interface, which is a really robust, solid device. Even with the new FW adapter, the rMBP cannot power this device.
I feel there is still merit to using the legacy tech for now - because it works. But Apple keep pushing on and this drives everything out the window across the board. If it's not the new in/out, it's the OS - these two factors continually moving forward to the point your own software won't run on a new machine, your old hardware wont connect to the new I/O, the new OS wont run on your old machine.
The sad part is one is forced to entirely upgrade their whole ecosystem of products - it's just not as simple as buying a new laptop once every few years.
I feel like this gen Retina is like the first MBA - not worth buying, not everything is ironed out yet. It's a product that forces transition from there previous gen products. So imo not the right time to buy. The price will drop dramatically in 2 years. By then all the i/o will be supported by peripherals, more USB3 and TB external hardware.
Having said all that, the Retina is the way forward, it's a beautiful machine and things are only looking better. It's comforting to know that when you do choose to upgrade the performance and class of the product is incredible, and it's exciting to think that this quality of product will be the standard in a few years time.
But my opinion I guess is, you can save a lot of money right now getting a 2011 model, and some legacy tech to go with it - that will last you for up to 5 years into the future.
I also own an external Firewire audio-interface, which is a really robust, solid device. Even with the new FW adapter, the rMBP cannot power this device.
I feel there is still merit to using the legacy tech for now - because it works. But Apple keep pushing on and this drives everything out the window across the board. If it's not the new in/out, it's the OS - these two factors continually moving forward to the point your own software won't run on a new machine, your old hardware wont connect to the new I/O, the new OS wont run on your old machine.
The sad part is one is forced to entirely upgrade their whole ecosystem of products - it's just not as simple as buying a new laptop once every few years.
I feel like this gen Retina is like the first MBA - not worth buying, not everything is ironed out yet. It's a product that forces transition from there previous gen products. So imo not the right time to buy. The price will drop dramatically in 2 years. By then all the i/o will be supported by peripherals, more USB3 and TB external hardware.
Having said all that, the Retina is the way forward, it's a beautiful machine and things are only looking better. It's comforting to know that when you do choose to upgrade the performance and class of the product is incredible, and it's exciting to think that this quality of product will be the standard in a few years time.
But my opinion I guess is, you can save a lot of money right now getting a 2011 model, and some legacy tech to go with it - that will last you for up to 5 years into the future.
I think both machines are excellent. But honestly, seriously, the resolution of the retina display is really really really worth having IMHO, unless of course you only run your laptops in clamshell mode. I am working daily on it, analysing data and coding in Matlab, writing in Scrivener, using Lightroom (fuzzy but liveable with until the update), Illustrator CS6 and Pixelmator. Most of all it is the text rendering, it really makes a difference.
If you seriously work with photos, honestly the IPS panel, contrast and the amazing pixel rendering of photos at x1 makes the rMBP essential.
Anyone that has even a slight passing interest in typography, would be crazy to get a cMBP. Glyph rendering is sensational, you can pick out the detail in glyphs across fonts utterly invisible with the classic DPI.
The rMBP is an utterly solid machine and usable today[1], and although I think a lot of Apple marketing is finest manure of the bovine kind, the retina display is magical and revolutionary and all the other market-spiel adjectives in spades.
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[1] I really don't get reticence for the first generation of the rMBP after having used it for two weeks for extensive work. The exception is if all you do is in Microsoft Office, not a problem for me as I can do 90% of my writing outside that junk and only import for final collaborative formatting. Some people hack their Office to get clear text rendering: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1418567/
If you seriously work with photos, honestly the IPS panel, contrast and the amazing pixel rendering of photos at x1 makes the rMBP essential.
Anyone that has even a slight passing interest in typography, would be crazy to get a cMBP. Glyph rendering is sensational, you can pick out the detail in glyphs across fonts utterly invisible with the classic DPI.
The rMBP is an utterly solid machine and usable today[1], and although I think a lot of Apple marketing is finest manure of the bovine kind, the retina display is magical and revolutionary and all the other market-spiel adjectives in spades.
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[1] I really don't get reticence for the first generation of the rMBP after having used it for two weeks for extensive work. The exception is if all you do is in Microsoft Office, not a problem for me as I can do 90% of my writing outside that junk and only import for final collaborative formatting. Some people hack their Office to get clear text rendering: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1418567/
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The screen is the real difference. The rMBP display is not only is super high resolution, but it is also IPS and equipped with an A-TW polarizer. The cMBP is mus a TN display. If they were detached from the laptops and sold retail, the retina screen would cost probably over $1000 (a-tw polarizes are not cheap), while the cMBP screen would be $300 at most.
To me, that's where the value is. If you don't care about having a high quality screen, then the rMBP isn't for you.
To me, that's where the value is. If you don't care about having a high quality screen, then the rMBP isn't for you.
Except the stuff that can go wrong (CPU, gpu) in the rMBP is more or less the same hardware as the cMBP. So there isn't much beta testing to go on.
By all objective measures, the screen is superior. There's no reason to buy a cMBP over an rMBP unless you absolutely need an internal ODD. I guess upgradeability is another concern, but I would just max out the ram on the rMBP, and then not worry about it. The TB to ethernet and TB to firewire adapters work fine, so I don't consider that a cMBP advantage.
I've purchased Revision A products in the past, though I do try to stay away from them. This imo is not really a revision A, since most of the internals are the same. I only got burned once by being on the bleeding edge. The Alu G4 powerbook had issues with the display retaining clips being too tight - causing white spots on the display.
Anyways I do try to avoid it, but when a computer that comes out like this, I think its worth the chance to be on the bleeding edge
I have no regrets - awesome computer all the way
I'd say the non retina one as you can ad larger drives if you need too. The only way I'd get the retina one is if I went for the largest SSD version (custom version) as 256 Gb isn't large enough it's fine in an Air but for your main laptop that's too small. I would go for the largest SSD size you can afford if you must get the retina one. Oh, just as an extra, I'm taring myself apart as to whether I should 'upgrade my MacBook Pro 15" which has a large drive, to a 15" retina MacBook Pro and have decided it will either been the 756 Gb custom model or not at all as I've already used up 350+ Gb's in the present model. If I decide not too then it's a new camera instead.
Remember, whichever model retina mac you buy, it can't be upgraded except by buying newer models as Apple expand the models.
Remember, whichever model retina mac you buy, it can't be upgraded except by buying newer models as Apple expand the models.
Um seeing as no adobe apps have been updated for retina, if you were actually serious about typography or editing photos, the RMBP is the last thing to get. How in god are you using illustrator cs6 when text and vectors all look horrible?
And let's not get into how useless pixelmator is which has now become a glorified instagram wannabe.
its really only the RAM, the SSD uses a stick that can be swapped out just like the air's (see OWC)
I use Illustrator for Scientific figures (limited text), and it is fully useable for me (pixellation doesn't distract from editing [unlike Word which I cannot use] and output will be identical). And Lightroom works fine for me; I switch to 2880x1800 for critical focus / sharpening, but for everything else it is workable till it gets updated. I won't move over to Aperture. Programming is done in Matlab, which though icons are pixellated, text is sharp and it is really more readable working my way through lots of code. This is a minor inconvenience today, and the places which do support retina fully (most text, especially my workhorse Scrivener) outweigh minor pixellation in to-be-updated software.
Even if Illustrator didn't update for quite some time, my overall experience from owning both a cMBP and rMBP makes the retinoid transformation utterly worthwhile; I see pixel grid defects in glyph rendering in the cMBP display.
none of this indicates that the RMBP is ready for *today* which is basically what you were trying to claim. switching to native 2880 res on a 15" screen as a workaround is not viable for most people at all. its only for the desperate who need to do work but can't yet because software hasn't properly been updated. if anything, thats just saying the RMBP ISNT ready for today and you have to resort to basically turning off the retina display scaling completely to get things somewhat usable.
thats fine and dandy to say you are completely ok with fuzzy pixelization while editing text and graphics. that doesn't mean its 'ready for today'. it means you're just willing to work in an awful and inaccurate environment. i don't have stats to back this up but i'm willing to bet most people who take this text/graphic work 'seriously' would not agree with you.
"ready for today" is dependent on your primary uses. If you're always using programs that don't utilize a high-density display then its not gonna be very advantageous, but if you just want a screen with unparalleled clarity to go easy on the eyes and make reading text more endurable, then it is ready to let you do just that.
I'd be interested to know what "lot of glitches" you're referring to. I've been using a MBPr for about five weeks now and there are just no glitches. The only "glitch" people seem to be obsessed about it the supposed "scroll lag" and I've seen that exactly one time. That was with the machine incredibly overtaxed, running more resource-hungry applications than I'd ever consider running on another laptop. I discussed this in this post. I have experienced absolutely zero lag since.Agreed or you will be a Apple beta tester. Then more like Apple invest on you with half bake product with lot of glitches. And pay for a hefty premium price.
The MBPr is simply the best laptop I've owned. It replaces a months-old 17" anti-glare MBP which I loved. As for "hefty premium price", as many others have pointed out, configure a non-retina MBP with similar specs and the MBPr is actually cheaper.
I'm claim nothing for anyone other than myself with my described mixed workload; for which it fully replaces my 2010MBP, significantly more gained than lost, today. And it is only going to get better...
There's a quick fix for Word to force it to display at retina resolutions. Oddly enough it works very well. The same fix works for Excel and (gak!) Outlook. Unfortunately not PowerPoint.
How do you expect every app to be ready on the day of release? No company in their right minds would dedicate resources to updating their apps for a product that may not exist.
The laptop is out now. Many apps have been updated. Many updates are in the pipeline. The stuff that works works really well. And the stuff that is rendered in low-res technically isn't inferior to the cMBP equivalent. Everyone who buys products on the cutting edge knows that there may be compatibility issues and similar growing pains.
I've purchased Revision A products in the past, though I do try to stay away from them. This imo is not really a revision A, since most of the internals are the same. I only got burned once by being on the bleeding edge. The Alu G4 powerbook had issues with the display retaining clips being too tight - causing white spots on the display.
Anyways I do try to avoid it, but when a computer that comes out like this, I think its worth the chance to be on the bleeding edge
I have no regrets - awesome computer all the way
I agreed that all the internal is the same with cMBP. But the technology still need to catch up with retina display. HD4000 alone can't power the pixel hungry of a retina display. Even the 650m need to be overclock but still some experience Lag. I bought a rMBP on the day it came out then realized, that, the technology is not there yet. Exchange it to Hi res Macbook pro. Which is great!.. with all the current technology Ivy Bridge, 1gb Nvidia 650m. And it is a port paradise USB 3, Ethernet, Firewire, and Thunderbolt; and the ability to add data doubler. Maybe 4 years from now when I am ready to replace my current macbook pro. Retina is a more matured product.
It's a software problem, not a hardware problem. GPUs capable of pushing the number of pixels the retina display has were first available in the 90s.
With the upgrades you want to do, it sounds like having the option to upgrade the laptop yourself is important to you. But if you would be happy with the configuration of the rMBP you showed, would it matter if you couldn't upgrade components later on?
Regarding the thinness, I felt it was pretty significant. I was looking at them recently. I closed a cMBP and a rMBP and checked the overall feel and weight difference. I thought it was very noticeable.
The thinness isn't something I care about as its NOT that significant. If I got the rMBP I would add 16GB Ram which is fine, its the 256GB storage that I am concerned about internally.
I would prefer not to touch the MBP at all for warranty purposes but I could always revert the cMBP back to its original state before I took it in for warranty work if needed.
Im a go buy a rMBP today and see how I like it first. If not, I will return it.