Oracle Warns macOS 14.4 Can Cause Java to Terminate Unexpectedly

[xari]

Java is used by millions of developers, backend frameworks like Spring(Java) are still widely popular and many microservices are written in these frameworks.

Some of these users on the forum that write ridiculous statements like "only five people use java" should know one thing, the macOS operating system should be a foundation that enables people to do whatever work they want to do on their computer. Stop defending Apple's bad development practices, instead hold them accountable so that we get a more stable OS.

 

[MagicBird]

Yup, I was wondering why I was having rare crashes with PhpStorm recently. Thought it was to do with some project files I added at first.
I don’t develop in Java but at least the crashes aren’t happening frequently so not causing any major issues.

Another one of those technologies… php

 

[AlmightyKang]

I've seen a pretty big shift away from Java and toward Python in my role that involves IT and business consulting. Not sure if there are any hard stats but I will say that Python is typically what the younger developer set seems to be using. This is of course anecdotal and I would be interested in seeing actual numbers if they're available.

Python allows you to get the job done quicker.

Disclaimer: may involve some compromises on performance, correctness, maintenance and cost down the line.

Saying that I mostly write in Go, Julia and R these days. But I'm a weirdo.

 

[LV426]

Audio plug-ins protected by PACE/iLok need to DIE. It's 2024. I remember years ago, I had Cubase on a PC, protected by these ridiculous dongle thingies. It was awful.

 

[kerr]

I consider Java to be like Adobe Flash, annoying and not wanted.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

Apple? How about Oracle? Java is 28 years old! If Sun Microsystems still owned Java this probably never would have happened!

Sun Microsystems will have first not sold itself to Oracle for that scenario to happen. Either way, the responsibility falls on the 3rd party OEM but also on Apple to communicate any API changes that may or may not affect Oracle's Tools. One of my jobs at NeXT/Apple was managing such situations with Engineering and Professional Services.

If the communication channels aren't always up-to-date issues will creep up and results like what Oracle has done however should not be putting the cart before the horse and the blame on the host operating system upfront.

You communicate to your vendors that currently OS X 14.4 is not certified to run Java and that you are working diligently with Apple to resolve any issues related to this presently.

 

[wilhoitm]

Java is used by millions of developers, backend frameworks like Spring(Java) are still widely popular and many microservices are written in these frameworks.

Some of these users on the forum that write ridiculous statements like "only five people use java" should know one thing, the macOS operating system should be a foundation that enables people to do whatever work they want to do on their computer. Stop defending Apple's bad development practices, instead hold them accountable so that we get a more stable OS.

Oracle is worst than Apple! It is not our fault that Oracle is peddling technology that is obsolete. When is the last time you fired up an Oracle database versus a free open source database? A Oracle DBA costs $400 an hour! Oracle did this to themselves!

 

[.wojtek]

Who needs Java anyway… the 90’s called, they want their tech back

That only holds up for Java on the desktop. Java runs a good amount of internet services behind the scenes and the devs maintaining and developing those are not able to do their job properly now.

Java is still alive and (very much) kicking server side. Lot's of Apple (backedn) services use Java And just the other day Apple released a konfiguration tool... written in Java: https://github.com/apple/pkl?tab=readme-ov-file so there's that about "90's"

I'll be honest, I didn't even know Java still existed.

Ignorance is bliss

 

[.wojtek]

Oracle is worst than Apple! It is not our fault that Oracle is peddling technology that is obsolete. When is the last time you fired up an Oracle database versus a free open source database? A Oracle DBA costs $400 an hour! Oracle did this to themselves!

Erm, Java (OpenJDK) is actually free and Open Source so I'm not sure what you are rambling about

As for whining about cost... it's a bit funny comming from user of (overpriced) Apple stuff xD

 

[wilhoitm]

Erm, Java (OpenJDK) is actually free and Open Source so I'm not sure what you are rambling about

As for whining about cost... it's a bit funny comming from user of (overpriced) Apple stuff xD

Don't forget the failed experiment when Oracle tried to charge for using Java! I know my History buddy!

Oracle 2023 Java Pricing Explodes: How to Reduce Costs & Stay Compliant

Oracle's Java pricing change increases costs by up to 1,400%! Learn how to reduce costs, stay compliant, and avoid Oracle audits.

houseofbrick.com

Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE | Hacker News

news.ycombinator.com

 

[Stella]

Unfortunately, JetBrains IDEs (PyCharm, Goland, etc.) are based on Java, so many developers are affected even if they don't develop Java apps.

Don't Jetbrains have their own custom JVM that they ship with their IDEs? Hopefully they can make a fix soon...

 

[biffuz]

Speaking only as someone who supported consumer Macs and not Devs for 20 odd years, I spent a lot of time removing the malware that gets installed when consumers install Java. There’s some stupid adware garbage in the installer that would regularly mess up my clients who needlessly installed it

Nope. It's because they download stuff from those scammy "software and driver archive" websites, that appears at the top of every search that includes "download" or "install" or "setup", instead of the original site (and of course they don't read what they click)

 

[falainber]

Most used programming languages among developers worldwide as of 2023

For the ignorant Apple fans, here are the stats from the linked chart:
Java - 30.55%
Swift - 4.65%
Objective-C - 2.31%

Then, of course, who cares? Macs are mostly an afterthought in computer world anyways.

 

[klasma]

You communicate to your vendors that currently OS X 14.4 is not certified to run Java and that you are working diligently with Apple to resolve any issues related to this presently.

Looking at the bug report and the minimal reproduction program written in C, this issue is clearly Apple’s fault, and has nothing to do with macOS not being “certified to run Java”.

 

[xari]

Oracle is worst than Apple! It is not our fault that Oracle is peddling technology that is obsolete. When is the last time you fired up an Oracle database versus a free open source database? A Oracle DBA costs $400 an hour! Oracle did this to themselves!

I work at a software development company that uses Spring as a backend framework, my computer is MacBook Pro M2, because of issues like this I am unable to do my work.

I also have a hobby as a guitarist and I use ProTools to record stuff at my studio, on my personal M3 Pro Mac ProTools plugins crash randomly, there are reports on ProTools official support page that some of the components of the OS cause major issues that apple needs to resolve. Meanwhile on my Core i9 desktop PC all of these things work flawlessly, which in a way disappoint me a lot since I am a Apple fan from 2007 onwards.

 

[seek3r]

Maybe AppleSoft or Integer BASIC if it gets ambitious and really misunderstands.

generates a hypercard stack

 

[foobarbaz]

Remember when Oracle said F the Mac we aren't going to support it and Jobs had to implement a work around?

"Oracle supplies Java for all other platforms except for the Mac. Due to differences in release schedules, Apple's implementation of Java is always a version behind. Jobs indicates "This may not be the best way to do it."

Steve Jobs Comments on Apple's Java Discontinuation

Apple's announcement that they would be ceasing future development of their version of Java for the Mac has generated concern amongst Java...

www.macrumors.com

You're remembering that wrong.

Apple and Sun had a cooperation regarding Java and Java was even an officially sanctioned language for Mac development. Apple was serious about Java and that's why they shipped their own runtime.

When Apple moved away from Java on the desktop, they eventually decided to deprecate their own runtime, which was falling behind anyway (therefore "not the best way to do it"). Then they just agreed that Oracle would just ship their runtime on the Mac, too.

At no point was there any snub.

 

[smithrh]

As each year goes by, the comments section is increasingly populated with uninformed and just plain ignorant hot takes.

Java still exists, and is a performant and highly cross-platform solution. There are a lot of apps that are quite useful for Mac users that are going to be unusable until this is fixed, including some I use nearly every day.

Deal with it.

 

[CyberGene]

To all the people who thought Java was dead. Well, the very fact Java is still actively developed and used on maybe half the business applications there (like e.g. an e-commerce website) and you certainly use some of those, yet you didn’t know it is Java, is a testament that it’s a good technology that’s not going in your way.

Flash was a browser technology running on your Mac. Java is a backend (server) technology that is not running on your (end user’s) Mac. It runs on a Linux server in most cases. Stop confusing Flash and Java, they have nothing in common. Java (applets) were briefly in-browser in the 90s but that’s long ago dead and was a rather small exotic corner of the Java world.

It’s Java developers who may be using Macs to develop in Java that are affected. I’m one of them. It’s only sad to see the typical ignorant fanboy arguments defending Apple at all costs without even thinking of the actual issue. Which is a bug in macOS. One of so many lately. And that’s a worrying trend for Apple. That’s where you should focus on, rather than burying your head in the sand.

 

[Icelus]

Unfortunately, JetBrains IDEs (PyCharm, Goland, etc.) are based on Java, so many developers are affected even if they don't develop Java apps.

I thought those used JetBrains' own fork by default?

GitHub - JetBrains/JetBrainsRuntime: Runtime environment based on OpenJDK for running IntelliJ Platform-based products on Windows, macOS, and Linux

Runtime environment based on OpenJDK for running IntelliJ Platform-based products on Windows, macOS, and Linux - JetBrains/JetBrainsRuntime

github.com

 

[DrWojtek]

Java is used by millions of developers, backend frameworks like Spring(Java) are still widely popular and many microservices are written in these frameworks.

Some of these users on the forum that write ridiculous statements like "only five people use java" should know one thing, the macOS operating system should be a foundation that enables people to do whatever work they want to do on their computer. Stop defending Apple's bad development practices, instead hold them accountable so that we get a more stable OS.

They can’t, they can’t think straight in the first place.
There is a clear difference between android fanboys and apple fanboys. The android boys are all incels. That is not half as bad as being thick as a rock, as an apple fan boy

 

[klasma]

Oracle is worst than Apple! It is not our fault that Oracle is peddling technology that is obsolete. When is the last time you fired up an Oracle database versus a free open source database? A Oracle DBA costs $400 an hour! Oracle did this to themselves!

Java is anything but obsolete. It’s the most widely used professional programming language after JavaScript and Python. It has little competition for the combined feature set of language and ecosystem stability, safety, and platform independence.

 

[Serge88]

There is no problem because developers use Linux and desktop users use Windows.

 

[TurboDrooler]

Oracle this week warned that the macOS 14.4 update released earlier this month for Macs can cause Java processes to "terminate unexpectedly."

In a blog post on Friday, Oracle's Senior Director of Product Management Aurelio Garcia-Ribeyro recommended that Apple silicon Mac users who rely on Java avoid updating to macOS 14.4 until the issue is resolved by Apple:The blog post and bug report include more technical details about the issue.

Oracle says it has notified Apple about the issue. Apple did not immediately respond to our request for comment about the matter.

Update: macOS 14.4 also has compatibility issues with audio plugins protected by PACE/iLok.

Article Link: Oracle Warns macOS 14.4 Can Cause Java to Terminate Unexpectedly

Oh no! Anyway…

 

[smithrh]

Oh no! Anyway…

Tell me you didn't read the comments without telling me you didn't read the comments.

Great work.