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That is why I'm holding on to iOS6 and Snow Leopard for as long as I can…
Just like my Mac 128. When Scully produced those awful ProFormas I had to switch to Windows.
Scully without Jobs reminds me of Ives and Cook of today.

So you think Steve Jobs is the genius that he is, but is incapable of choosing leadership to keep his vision alive? I think that's pretty insulting to Jobs true brilliance, which was talent management/recruiting and having good "taste" in people, not just products.

Scully and the Apple of 1985 was not an organization that Jobs set up himself. First of all, he was much younger and less experienced. Second, the board of directors didn't allow Jobs to have that level of control over the organization. Scully was approved by Jobs to be CEO due to inexperience as well as pressure from the board, who were money hungry types and not visionaries. The only group Jobs assembled entirely himself was the Macintosh team, only 100 people. That was all he was allowed to do.

2014 Apple is a completely different beast than 1985. Let alone the fact that Tim Cook has been Jobs' right hand man for over 15 years while Scully wasn't. This is an organization assembled from top to bottom by Steve Jobs himself. From the leadership to the structure to the culture to the processes, all Steve Jobs. Jobs even created internally the Apple University during his last few years.

To compare Apple today to the Scully Apple is a complete slap in the face to the mighty Steve Jobs you think was irreplaceable. It's just funny to me, people treat him like a God, but then slap him in the face when it comes to his ability to leave his creation in capable hands.

I'm pretty sure Jobs cared about it much more than you. And I'm pretty sure he thought much longer and harder about it than you have. And I'm pretty sure he knows Tim Cook and Jony Ive much better than you.
 
You'd be surprise how little Apple puts into a lot.

Also, you'd be surprised how a corporate model plays with all of this.

Lastly, you'd be surprised that a good deal of other companies put just as much time into their products; good, quality products is not uniquely Apple. That's been around for a very VERY long time.

Then why do so many companies release some half-assed attempts?

These companies have been in business for years... and they obviously see what's going on around them.

There should be no excuse for releasing garbage today.
 
Then why do so many companies release some half-assed attempts?

These companies have been in business for years... and they obviously see what's going on around them.

There should be no excuse for releasing garbage today.

I don't know, but to say that it's hard to see any other company paying that much attention to detail just means that such a person hasn't been outside.

Logitech makes some great keyboards and mice, the mice being much better than Apple's offerings IMHO.

HON makes some top notch office furniture with impeccable attention to detail.

AJA makes some of the best capture cards I've ever used, and the IOHD was may favorite real-time up/down/cross conversion box.

So Apple makes great stuff, but others do too. And I don't even want to start talking about the HP Z8xx workstations.
 
I don't know, but to say that it's hard to see any other company paying that much attention to detail just means that such a person hasn't been outside.

Logitech makes some great keyboards and mice, the mice being much better than Apple's offerings IMHO.

HON makes some top notch office furniture with impeccable attention to detail.

AJA makes some of the best capture cards I've ever used, and the IOHD was may favorite real-time up/down/cross conversion box.

And then there are other companies making not-so-good capture cards... among other things.

They should be ashamed of themselves :)
 
There really wasn't all that much that was original. There were any number of contact managers which would dial a regular phone from within the app. Sliding switches? Original? Really? The only thing remotely original was the virtual sliding switch and there is bound to be prior art.

The first iPhone I tried (not the first one sucked. It seldom worked right and was crudely assembled with many sharp edges. I didn't keep it as Apple said it worked just fine. Hardly an example of perfection. iOS remains a crude implementation with fundamentally flawed concepts, not to mention Jony's fixation with the shallow, superficial and meaningless aspects of interface design such Crayola colors, transperency and changing rectangular "buttons" to round ones...including the photos in Contacts.

Apple needs new leadership in the iOS team.

----------

So you think Steve Jobs is the genius that he is, but is incapable of choosing leadership to keep his vision alive? I think that's pretty insulting to Jobs true brilliance, which was talent management/recruiting and having good "taste" in people, not just products.

Scully and the Apple of 1985 was not an organization that Jobs set up himself. First of all, he was much younger and less experienced. Second, the board of directors didn't allow Jobs to have that level of control over the organization. Scully was approved by Jobs to be CEO due to inexperience as well as pressure from the board, who were money hungry types and not visionaries. The only group Jobs assembled entirely himself was the Macintosh team, only 100 people. That was all he was allowed to do.

2014 Apple is a completely different beast than 1985. Let alone the fact that Tim Cook has been Jobs' right hand man for over 15 years while Scully wasn't. This is an organization assembled from top to bottom by Steve Jobs himself. From the leadership to the structure to the culture to the processes, all Steve Jobs. Jobs even created internally the Apple University during his last few years.

To compare Apple today to the Scully Apple is a complete slap in the face to the mighty Steve Jobs you think was irreplaceable. It's just funny to me, people treat him like a God, but then slap him in the face when it comes to his ability to leave his creation in capable hands.

I'm pretty sure Jobs cared about it much more than you. And I'm pretty sure he thought much longer and harder about it than you have. And I'm pretty sure he knows Tim Cook and Jony Ive much better than you.

Jony has not distinguished himself as head of the iOS team.
 
It's always easy to discount the amount of sweat and tears on something that is so intuitive and done right because it seems so easy. It's like reading a great detective novel knowing the ending.

I'm not sure if we'll have another moment of wow comparable to the first time when we experienced iPhone ever again. I was so impressed with the integration of address book to map to the phone, which we all take it for granted now, for example.
 
I'm tired of people bagging on Ive and Cook. (See page "1" comments.) Nick Heer was right. (See signature.)
 
Oh yes indeed! That is very VERY true! ;)

Forgot to add that.

Thanks!

I started my discussion talking about details.

There are companies today making Thunderbolt products. Great, right?

But then some of them only have a single Thunderbolt port. WTF??? How do you miss that?

It's those kind of details that I'm talking about.

We all love the ease at which we can unlock our iPhone 5S with TouchID

So why would anyone put a fingerprint scanner on the back? You have to pick up the phone to unlock it!?!?

Again... details... :)
 
Maybe...

"He said his team "banged their head against the wall" over how to change text messages from a chronological list of individual messages to a series of separate ongoing conversations similar to instant messaging on a computer."

I don't get it, my Treo 650 (which came out in 2004!!) was able to do this. I think prior Treos also did text messaging in individual conversation views as well. This was nothing new when the iPhone came out in 2007; why did Apple have such a hard time figuring it out?

Maybe because they didn't steal other people's ideas and decided to invent their own solution.
 
Any work arounds to read the article? Heck, I'd even pay a buck for the one time read, but they're not getting my credit card for a "free trial" offer. :mad:

Put the URL into Google, then click "cached":
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...4579461783150723874+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk


Here's the full spread:

Apple Engineer Recalls the iPhone's Birth
Jobs's Ultimatum: Lay Out a Vision Fast or Lose the Project



By DAISUKE WAKABAYASHI CONNECT
March 25, 2014 7:53 p.m. ET
In February 2005, Apple Inc. AAPL +1.08% 's then chief executive, Steve Jobs, gave senior software engineer Greg Christie an ultimatum.

Mr. Christie's team had been struggling for months to lay out the software vision for what would become the iPhone as well as how the parts would work together. Now, Mr. Jobs said the team had two weeks or he would assign the project to another group.

"Steve had pretty much had it," said Mr. Christie, who still heads Apple's user-interface team. "He wanted bigger ideas and bigger concepts."

Mr. Christie's team devised many iPhone features, such as swiping to unlock the phone, placing calls from the address book, and a touch-based music player. The iPhone ditched the keyboard then common on advanced phones for a display that covered the device's entire surface, and it ran software that more closely resembled personal-computer programs.
...


----------

Good design is nice to see. Great design is invisible.

Yes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGPIqGi7MWY
 
Last edited by a moderator:
What I always find fascinating about these articles was Steve's detached, cold, I don't give a ******* just do as I say and make it work pronto attitude or else I have a pocket full of pink slips to hand out and some @$$ whooping and cussing, then go home for dinner at 5 PM as the loving husband and father.

Lauren: How was work?
Steve: Cussed out some stupid people today.

Steve: Sweetie, daddy threatened people today with bits of paper in your favorite color, pink!
 
You'd be surprise how little Apple puts into a lot.

Also, you'd be surprised how a corporate model plays with all of this.

Lastly, you'd be surprised that a good deal of other companies put just as much time into their products; good, quality products is not uniquely Apple. That's been around for a very VERY long time.

Yeah, but we're on an Apple site. What do you expect? :p

This whole idea that Apple is obsessed with details is, funny enough, a product of their marketing as well. Not to say that they don't fuss over the details, but certainly to be known for it is not an accident.
 
I'm not certain how the Treo did it wrong.

In fact, the Treo's SMS view was pretty much identical to the iPhones. You could see your list of conversations, sorted by most recent activity, and when you open one you would see your conversation threaded. Just like the iPhone does it.

Sure, the iPhone's implementation was prettier, but I don't understand why they had to bang their heads so hard to come up with this.

(Note that I have an iPhone and enjoy it; I'm not one of those annoying Android trolls. Just curious here.)

But... but... the bubbles! You have to have the green and blue bubbles!
 
There really wasn't all that much that was original. There were any number of contact managers which would dial a regular phone from within the app. Sliding switches? Original? Really? The only thing remotely original was the virtual sliding switch and there is bound to be prior art.

The first iPhone I tried (not the first one sucked. It seldom worked right and was crudely assembled with many sharp edges. I didn't keep it as Apple said it worked just fine. Hardly an example of perfection. iOS remains a crude implementation with fundamentally flawed concepts, not to mention Jony's fixation with the shallow, superficial and meaningless aspects of interface design such Crayola colors, transperency and changing rectangular "buttons" to round ones...including the photos in Contacts.

Apple needs new leadership in the iOS team.

.

----------



Jony has not distinguished himself as head of the iOS team.

Your post is barely legible. What are you trying to say? Half doesn't even make any sense
 
Does anyone have a link about the treo having threaded text messages. The earliest treo I can find online that had it was released after the iPhone
 
So you think Steve Jobs is the genius that he is, but is incapable of choosing leadership to keep his vision alive? I think that's pretty insulting to Jobs true brilliance, which was talent management/recruiting and having good "taste" in people, not just products.

Scully and the Apple of 1985 was not an organization that Jobs set up himself. First of all, he was much younger and less experienced. Second, the board of directors didn't allow Jobs to have that level of control over the organization. Scully was approved by Jobs to be CEO due to inexperience as well as pressure from the board, who were money hungry types and not visionaries. The only group Jobs assembled entirely himself was the Macintosh team, only 100 people. That was all he was allowed to do.

2014 Apple is a completely different beast than 1985. Let alone the fact that Tim Cook has been Jobs' right hand man for over 15 years while Scully wasn't. This is an organization assembled from top to bottom by Steve Jobs himself. From the leadership to the structure to the culture to the processes, all Steve Jobs. Jobs even created internally the Apple University during his last few years.

To compare Apple today to the Scully Apple is a complete slap in the face to the mighty Steve Jobs you think was irreplaceable. It's just funny to me, people treat him like a God, but then slap him in the face when it comes to his ability to leave his creation in capable hands.

I'm pretty sure Jobs cared about it much more than you. And I'm pretty sure he thought much longer and harder about it than you have. And I'm pretty sure he knows Tim Cook and Jony Ive much better than you.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Excellent, reasoned argument. Agree 100%.
 
well, we already knew steve as very obsessive with details. I'd like to know the number of employes tho

I would like to know the number of minds that created the original UI, As well.

Yes the number does matter...was it 39 people...or nine....or 4. Yea, it matters.
 
Does anyone have a link about the treo having threaded text messages. The earliest treo I can find online that had it was released after the iPhone

I'd just like to add that, if anyone has a picture of how threaded messages looked on a Treo, please post!
 
Ugh. Ran into a paywall.

Damn paywall.

Any work arounds to read the article? Heck, I'd even pay a buck for the one time read, but they're not getting my credit card for a "free trial" offer. :mad:

Click the first result:
google.com/search?q=Apple+Engineer+Recalls+the+iPhone's+Birth

Here's the full spread:

Don't copy and paste the entire article, it's a copyright violation.
 
Mr. Christie joined Apple in 1996 to work on the Newton, the short-lived personal-digital assistant that had a touch screen controlled by a stylus. But the Newton proved to be ahead of its time—too big, too expensive, with software that was too balky.
Too big, too expensive, bad software: Ahead of its time according to the New York Times.
 
iPhone was as close to a moonshot as we'll see in our lifetimes. A pure culmination of all Steve's ideas into one product, in a market sector that had a UI consisting of blinking "12:00" digits.
 
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