OS X Mountain Lion to Be True Mac App Store Exclusive

[Yebubbleman]

This is disappointing news. Though it is true; it's ridiculously easy to make a thumb drive that still gives you the recovery partition (and thusly FileVault 2 capabilities) as part of the installation and that can be kept up to date with new point releases of Lion (by way of redownloading the Lion installer each time Apple releases a 10.7.x update and re-extracting the InstallESD.dmg file from it and imaging the thumb drive with it), which is something that I'm sure Apple's USB drive doesn't support. Still though, it was good seeing Apple support those who couldn't get it from a broadband connection. That said, if memory serves, the USB thumb drive option wasn't even announced until Lion's actual release date on the Mac App Store. We might not see Apple even announce such a thing until Mountain Lion's release date on the Mac App Store.

 

[JediZenMaster]

So whats everyone getting worked up for on this?

Apple pushes the bar up, I'm sure there were people complaining when they stopped selling Mac OS on floppies, people complained when it went DVD only, they did they same with Lion only on Direct Download/USB Drive. The same is happening with ML that is digital download only and for me thats great, and for a large majority its great.

Exactly. People seem to have no problem streaming movies on Netflix, Downloading games on steam and such. But when it comes to this people are ready to tear down the pulpit.

Like it or not OSX is download only and i for one am happy it is. If really is of such importance to have a "Physical Copy" which is so 20th century. Then as opposed to spending time whining and crying over it. Create your own recovery usb stick.

 

[Yebubbleman]

So whats everyone getting worked up for on this?

Apple pushes the bar up, I'm sure there were people complaining when they stopped selling Mac OS on floppies, people complained when it went DVD only, they did they same with Lion only on Direct Download/USB Drive. The same is happening with ML that is digital download only and for me thats great, and for a large majority its great.

Apple moves us forward, to quote 'Think Different' they push the human race forward, and why you may think their crazy, the rest of us see genius!

But theres always a way round, visit a friend/family with fast broadband, gives you an excuse to go out and see people rather than sitting like a keyboard warrior in front of your screen moaning about what Apple has done next!

Remember the world moves forward and the rest of world gets dragged kicking and screaming along with it. If it was for the mentality of some Apple would have legacy issues like Microsoft and still be supporting Macs from the year dot.

While the prospect of Apple not distributing Mountain Lion on their own USB stick doesn't affect me in the slightest, I'm at least aware enough that I'm not the only person in this world using a Mac and that some have bandwidth deficiencies. And no, I'm not going to haul my desktop over to my friend's house so I can download Mountain Lion. For one that's a pain. Two, the whole point of visiting my friends is to get away from the computer. As a home Mac user with broadband, I have no problem with this, but I know several that will, and while they may not make up the vast majority, they still are a crap-ton of people. As for businesses, deployment via Mac App Store is insanely stupid and is devoid of Apple's signature genius that you claim to be capable of magically seeing. Having some kind of physical disk or even a disk image is kind of necessary for that sort of stuff. Remember man, consumers (let alone consumers with Broadband) don't make up a majority of computer users out there.

Exactly. People seem to have no problem streaming movies on Netflix, Downloading games on steam and such. But when it comes to this people are ready to tear down the pulpit.

Like it or not OSX is download only and i for one am happy it is. If really is of such importance to have a "Physical Copy" which is so 20th century. Then as opposed to spending time whining and crying over it. Create your own recovery usb stick.

Good for you! I'm really glad that their delivery method serves YOU, now pull back and recognize that the world actually doesn't revolve around you and that there are others (and granted, I'm not one of them) for whom this creates a real problem. Man people on these forums are so self-centered sometimes.

That said, by design, there will always be an importance for a "Physical Copy" of a desktop operating system. IT departments don't function on "download only", and I'm sorry, but a locally attached drive will always be faster than broadband internet, and I don't know about you, but when my system goes down, I don't want to have to wait for the OS to download before I am able to start reinstalling it.

Yes, creating a USB stick or burning a DVD is a valid option, but if I'm in the middle of nowhere with dial-up (because DSL and Cable services are both nowhere to be found), I'm screwed, and (again, this is where you pulling back and recognizing that the world doesn't revolve around you comes in handy) those people do exist, even in the 21st Century.

 

[tjb1]

Great post Yebubbleman, I am one of those people and it really sucks. Even downloading an OS through a tethered iPhone where I barely get 1 bar of service would be next to impossible...

Exactly. People seem to have no problem streaming movies on Netflix, Downloading games on steam and such. But when it comes to this people are ready to tear down the pulpit.

Like it or not OSX is download only and i for one am happy it is. If really is of such importance to have a "Physical Copy" which is so 20th century. Then as opposed to spending time whining and crying over it. Create your own recovery usb stick.

Actually yes, the people without highspeed do have a problem with it. I dont have steam, I have an xbox THAT USES PHYSICAL DISKS. We use to use Netflix, but we got the DVDs BECAUSE WE CANT STREAM. So maybe you should think about that?? People arent forced to play games or watch movies, but at some time you will have to move up on an operating system either by force or by wanting/needing features in that OS. Stop being such an ass and realize that not everyone has highspeed and some people dont have a problem with Steam or Netflix BECAUSE THEY COULDNT USE THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

 

[Yebubbleman]

You don't need to, once downloaded you could put the .dmg file on a thumb drive.

This doesn't work if your machine comes shipped with it. Hence why people making 10.7.1 thumb drives couldn't install it on their 2011 Mac minis and MacBook Airs that came pre-loaded with 10.7.0. Why that is, I'll never know; it's not like the Snow Leopard 10.6.3 DVD didn't work with machines that shipped after the 10.6.0 DVD but before the formal release of 10.6.3.

I doubt it, plus there will always be a way to copy into USB Flash to install it from there.

And you're sure of this how...?

Question, should I upgrade to OSX Lion before going straight to this? I'm still using Snow Leopard and haven't really had any motivation/need to switch, but I do like the sounds of some of the features of Mountain Lion. Will skipping one cause any problems?

First off you couldn't go from Snow Leopard to Lion unless you had 10.6.6, and before any of you wise guys cite the Mac App Store as the obvious reasoning, this also applied to DVDs and USB thumb drives imaged from the InstallESD.dmg file. My guess is that Apple will pull a similar limitation. Even if they don't and you can go from Snow Leopard to Mountain Lion, in my experience, Mac OS X upgrades go much smoother in direct sequence. But that's just me.

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/9A405)



If you have a Mac laptop, just go somewhere with Internet access (Starbucks, a fast food restaurant, etc.), download it, and make a DVD or thumb drive backup.

What if they have a Mac desktop? If you are going to make an argument, prepare for people to poke holes in it and come to the table with that argument patched otherwise wise-asses like me will make you look silly for saying things like that.

Apple doesn't give a **** about the .1% of people like you who don't have real internet. And they shouldn't. Move.

It's people like you that give us Mac users a bad rep. Why don't you go out acquire some empathy and take some time to think about what you said and how ridiculous you sounded saying it? I promise you, it'll do you wonders or your money back.

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

Its not apples fault you dont get fast internet. You are in a very small minority now so doesnt make business sense. Get over it and stop crying. I suppose you are the ones who will also cry when they drop the superdrive on the macbook pro.

While it may very well not make business sense, you are clearly misinformed about the order of the universe. (Spoiler Alert: It doesn't revolve around you or your perceived majority.) As for the Superdrive, people still use it. You don't, and for that reason, you probably fit in way better with all of the MacBook Air obsessed sheep on this site. Those of us who still get actual work done (by way of burning DVDs and using big boy toys like discrete GPUs) will stick to the MacBook Pros.

No, they aren't. You're the unbelievably small minority here.

Show me data to prove this. Otherwise, your statement holds less weight than a semi-truck in space (and mind you, that's not possible).

You know the DVD or USB thing isn't even an issue anymore for me.. I've got a 2011 Mac Mini and the fresh install process is so much easier.. It's because there is a Recovery HD Volume, and I believe the download is done over the internet prior to the install..

Not sure If the Recovery HD has made its way onto older Mac Systems but if it did I don't think anyone would miss the DVD and USB process..

For one, a local drive will always be faster than Internet download. Period. Secondly, Recovery HD and Lion Internet Recovery aren't the same thing. They accomplish the same end goal, but they are not identical. Internet Recovery has made the rounds on the 2010 and Early 2011 Mac models, but it hasn't gotten everywhere; for all other earlier Lion users, that's where Recovery HD comes in. Neither one gives you as speedy of an OS install as a locally attached DVD or Thumb Drive and if my system takes a dive, I want to get it back up and running as soon as humanly possible.

And how many of those people use mac os x?

I dont see why you should get mountain lion in first place if you dont have internet - i mean all new features are requiring you to have high speed internet, especially for software updates and icloud photostream. And i have never seen anyone complaining that apple dont release every single software updates via discs or usb drives for those who dont have broadband.

If you dont have broadband, you probably wont be making good use of the operating system anyway, so it is not the operating system of choice for you.

That's like saying if you have a car and you don't ever use the radio or carry additional passengers/cargo you should probably get a motorcycle instead. Also the surface features advertised on the OS X Mountain Lion Sneak Peak page are only a fraction of the changes; every time Apple releases a new OS, there are the features it brags about, and then a crap-ton of changes under the hood. This is no different. Plus, as someone who is going to get a MacBook Pro sometime in the near future, I'm not only expecting, but I'm planning on taking it to places where I don't have broadband ethernet and doing stuff that *gasp* doesn't require the Internet. Because not everyone uses their computer for e-mail, Facebook, web-browsing, and chatting for a bulk of the time that it is powered on. Buy a clue.

So you never update your software and can't use any software that requires activation? What do you even use the computer for?

All software that has Internet activation has phone activation for people without Internet in situations just like the person you're responding to is in.

You got that right there are a lot of people who have slow internet. Everyone who says just move is a child who doesn't have a mortgage or any bills. Or a snooty jerk.

That would seem to be the case here. It's a shame how many of those we have on this site. I was hoping for a more mature and respectful Mac user base on here.

Or you could *gasp* leave your Mac on overnight.

Right, because that's more convenient than a USB drive install. I'm sorry, what planet are you from?

Wrong take a trip to an apple store and they will help you install it there.

This is not Windows please how many people have actually had to re-install their OS Lion?

Also who do you upgrade?

How do you get new programs?

how do you do anything?

Believe it or not, a lot of people re-install their OS from time to time. It sometimes makes the computer run FASTER! (Hint: FASTER = good!)

Also, I have a CD case of software CDs and DVDs. Sure there are a ton of things that I download (like VLC, Adobe Flash Player, Steam, Blizzard Games, etc.), but there are a ton that I don't (Adobe apps, Apple Pro apps, Microsoft Office, etc.). Believe it or not, not everyone is all digital-only. A lot are, I'll grant you that. But enough aren't.

I saw the video introducing Mountain Lion and I was not impressed by a single feature. Nothing new, no Wow! factor, I wonder if that was just me.

Nope, same here. Though a lot of them are starting to grow on me. Notifications (which looks like it'll kick the crap out of Growl in terms of usefulness assuming it's widely adopted) and AirPlay mirroring I'm actually excited for. Notes seems silly, but what the hell. And I'm kind of warming up to Reminders for no reason other than I thought that it was stupid to have them in iCal under Lion and a separate app on iOS.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, a lot of people on here are rude, ignorant, self-centered, and a lot of times, just plain wrong. Yes the MacBook Air is the future of notebooks, no that future isn't here, or anywhere near here. Broadband isn't everywhere, give the people who actually need an Apple Thumb drive and are pissed about it a break; just because they're not you doesn't mean that they don't have a legitimate issue with it.

 

[JediZenMaster]

----------

Your welcome. Again, a lot of people on here are rude, ignorant, self-centered, and a lot of times, just plain wrong. Yes the MacBook Air is the future of notebooks, no that future isn't here, or anywhere near here. Broadband isn't everywhere, give the people who actually need an Apple Thumb drive and are pissed about it a break; just because they're not you doesn't mean that they don't have a legitimate issue with it.

So its not self centered on your part the other way around? Show me the correlation of Mac users in areas where there is no broadband penetration.

After all if this is your basis then you should back it up with facts and figures.

 

[Can't Stop]

First of all thank's for personally insulting me and calling me an ASS. That really shows how mature you are. Second getting pissed off is not going to change anything because apple has already made their decision

I'm finding it hard to believe that a huge percentage of mac users live in places where there is no broadband and the providers who do have caps on broadband typically allow between 150 to 250 GB's.

But once again i understand that since that since you are such a paragon of virtue that you speak for the entire majority of mac users. Must be nice to be perfect and not drown when you walk across water.

----------



So its not self centered on your part the other way around? Show me the correlation of Mac users in areas where there is no broadband penetration.

After all if this is your basis then you should back it up with facts and figures.

You know when i want something i usually find a way to get it/ make it happen. People whining that they can't download 4 GB of data just shows how f**ed up in their thinking and way of life some americans are.

 

[Yebubbleman]

So its not self centered on your part the other way around? Show me the correlation of Mac users in areas where there is no broadband penetration.

After all if this is your basis then you should back it up with facts and figures.

I never asserted that a given percentage of people are stuck without broadband. I said that those people exist, hence all of the outcries in this thread. I never said that those people are in the majority of Mac users as I don't believe they are. Nevertheless, it is self-centered, ignorant, and unempathetic to have the attitude of "oh well, it only affects a small number of people, yay for Apple for ushering in the future". That being said, I believe you were the one asserting that this doesn't affect anyone, and are similarly not backing your point up with facts and figures. My point doesn't require facts and figures, yours does. So, where are they?

 

[BornAgainMac]

Just curious, but what do most people with work Macs do? Do you maintain a separate Apple ID for your work machine and then use a purchasing card to buy updates of OS X?

Or what exactly, I'm used to more the model where you buy installation media and licenses for the office and go from there, but with the tie to an Apple ID, I'm not sure what the best way to go is. More of a curious question than anything.

I use my own Apple ID. I am sure it isn't the norm though.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

And you're sure of this how...?

Let's just say I just know it. And I'm not going to argue with you, as it would be a waste of my time, based on your previous comments.
You go ahead, believe whatever you want to believe.

 

[heisenberg123]

ya because they realized people where smart enough to extract the DMG install file before doing the install and make a bootable DVD or Flash drive

----------

Great post Yebubbleman, I am one of those people and it really sucks. Even downloading an OS through a tethered iPhone where I barely get 1 bar of service would be next to impossible...




Actually yes, the people without highspeed do have a problem with it. I dont have steam, I have an xbox THAT USES PHYSICAL DISKS. We use to use Netflix, but we got the DVDs BECAUSE WE CANT STREAM. So maybe you should think about that?? People arent forced to play games or watch movies, but at some time you will have to move up on an operating system either by force or by wanting/needing features in that OS. Stop being such an ass and realize that not everyone has highspeed and some people dont have a problem with Steam or Netflix BECAUSE THEY COULDNT USE THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

i dont think its JediZen's fault apple is deciding to do this? all he is saying is its not just apple that going the stream route for distributing what was once sold on hard disks

 

[KingJosh]

anyone ever heard of an 'overnighter'?

i am on 150kb/s download. I don't wine about digital download I just do it while I sleep wake up next morning and make a physical copy of it. I just downloaded 6.4gb of videos while I slept for 8 hours.

I would rather have slow internet than the hassle of sorting through my draws trying to find physical media, especially optical media..

 

[Can't Stop]

anyone ever heard of an 'overnighter'?

Exactly what i do. Problem solved.

 

[Yebubbleman]

Let's just say I just know it. And I'm not going to argue with you, as it would be a waste of my time, based on your previous comments.
You go ahead, believe whatever you want to believe.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I think it's safe to say that they'll continue doing exactly as they've been doing for Mountain Lion. All I'm saying is that we can't be sure of anything, it's not like Apple didn't change up its distribution methods with the last OS release. Who is to say they won't do it again. And all I'm asking you is what do you know to make you so sure? I'm not an irate debater here, the only thing I can't deal with is stupid arguments from stupid people.

i dont think its JediZen's fault apple is deciding to do this? all he is saying is its not just apple that going the stream route for distributing what was once sold on hard disks

He's not blaming JediZen for Apple doing what they're doing. He's blaming him for having the attitude of "Oh well, the minority doesn't matter, yay for Apple ushering in the future". There's a difference.

anyone ever heard of an 'overnighter'?

i am on 150kb/s download. I don't wine about digital download I just do it while I sleep wake up next morning and make a physical copy of it. I just downloaded 6.4gb of videos while I slept for 8 hours.

I would rather have slow internet than the hassle of sorting through my draws trying to find physical media, especially optical media..

Good for you. There are others who don't share your preference, majority or not. Accept that, please.

 

[Can't Stop]

Good for you. There are others who don't share your preference, majority or not. Accept that, please.

So he has to accept while you get to whine how Apple 'left' people? I must be watching Fringe.

 

[Frozzie]

That's like saying if you have a car and you don't ever use the radio or carry additional passengers/cargo you should probably get a motorcycle instead. Also the surface features advertised on the OS X Mountain Lion Sneak Peak page are only a fraction of the changes; every time Apple releases a new OS, there are the features it brags about, and then a crap-ton of changes under the hood. This is no different. Plus, as someone who is going to get a MacBook Pro sometime in the near future, I'm not only expecting, but I'm planning on taking it to places where I don't have broadband ethernet and doing stuff that *gasp* doesn't require the Internet. Because not everyone uses their computer for e-mail, Facebook, web-browsing, and chatting for a bulk of the time that it is powered on. Buy a clue.

Even if they release the OS on DVD, how are you going to download updates if you have no internet? The last delta update for Lion was hundreds of megabytes. And you know, they often do give a crap-ton of changes under the hood.

And what if initial release of an OS had a major fault that can cripple the system, and must be solved by an update that is half as big as an OS.

If you can download delta updates, you can download an OS. Apple probably made the decision on that principle.

 

[philipma1957]

ya because they realized people where smart enough to extract the DMG install file before doing the install and make a bootable DVD or Flash drive

----------

anyone ever heard of an 'overnighter'?

i am on 150kb/s download. I don't wine about digital download I just do it while I sleep wake up next morning and make a physical copy of it. I just downloaded 6.4gb of videos while I slept for 8 hours.

I would rather have slow internet than the hassle of sorting through my draws trying to find physical media, especially optical media..

put in an external hdd with 4 or 6 partitions

label them lion backup feb 2012 march 2012 apr 2012 may june july aug etc.

use the recovery option and load a new osx to the first empty partition.

do it at night. next day migrate your real osx to it.

after a while you have a hdd with 4 or 5 lion osx's any one can be used for instant boot

recovery. cost one external hdd for instant backup.

 

[KingJosh]

Good for you. There are others who don't share your preference, majority or not. Accept that, please.

I'm not bragging or anything. I am giving you a reasonable option because soon you will be forced to change to this. It is the way the tech industry works and if you don't keep up you lose out.

 

[Yebubbleman]

I'm not bragging or anything. I am giving you a reasonable option because soon you will be forced to change to this. It is the way the tech industry works and if you don't keep up you lose out.

Right. This explains why we have Windows XP w/ SP3 support until April 8, 2014.

Even if they release the OS on DVD, how are you going to download updates if you have no internet? The last delta update for Lion was hundreds of megabytes. And you know, they often do give a crap-ton of changes under the hood.

And what if initial release of an OS had a major fault that can cripple the system, and must be solved by an update that is half as big as an OS.

If you can download delta updates, you can download an OS. Apple probably made the decision on that principle.

A delta update doesn't restore me from an OS or Hard Drive failure where the complete OS installer can. I can't boot off of Intarwebs that I don't have bandwidth for, therein lies the problem.

 

[Can't Stop]

Right. This explains why we have Windows XP w/ SP3 support until April 8, 2014.

This explains only that Microsoft is incapable of cutting legacy support. Oh and that Windows PC users don't like change and that corporate world doesn't give a *****.

----------

Right. This explains why we have Windows XP w/ SP3 support until April 8, 2014.




A delta update doesn't restore me from an OS or Hard Drive failure where the complete OS installer can. I can't boot off of Intarwebs that I don't have bandwidth for, therein lies the problem.

Your 'problem' is solved by downloading 4 GB of data ONCE, making a backup image afterwards and living happily ever after.

Well that really only makes sense if you want to do something instead of whining here.

 

[KingJosh]

Right. This explains why we have Windows XP w/ SP3 support until April 8, 2014.




A delta update doesn't restore me from an OS or Hard Drive failure where the complete OS installer can. I can't boot off of Intarwebs that I don't have bandwidth for, therein lies the problem.

then after april in 2 years? Exactly my point.

 

[Macman45]

Wrong. A lot of people out in rural areas do not have broadband of a speed sufficient to make downloading OSX feasible. The world is not yet interconnected at high speeds. It is attitudes like yours that creates the digital divide. Reality check, please.

I could not agree more, if this version of OSX is download only, a lot of Mac faithful are going to be looking back at a Windows DVD.

Bad, bad move Apple.

 

[farleysmaster]

Apple are presumably making this change because about 50 people bought the OS on USB. They did an experiment with Lion, they got their results, and now they know what to expect with the distribution of Mountain Lion.

The same people were here last year, saying how it would be impossible to put Lion on a new hard drive as if Apple were really going to do something that stupid...

 

[milo]

I could not agree more, if this version of OSX is download only, a lot of Mac faithful are going to be looking back at a Windows DVD.

No, a lot just won't upgrade their OS and won't get a newer version until they get around to buying a new machine. Which is probably what plenty of users are doing already.

I think this is a bad move on apple's part, at least with the current implementation, but I don't think it's something that will drive users back to windows.

 

[Yebubbleman]

then after april in 2 years? Exactly my point.

No, your point is that the tech industry evolves quickly in terms of support, and my point is that it doesn't, hence why an OS released at the end of October 2001 will stop receiving TLC from Microsoft in April of 2014; that doesn't sound like a quick evolution in terms of support at all. Even beyond the unusually long support time of Windows XP, Windows Vista support will end one year after that. That's eight years of support for an OS that was never really adopted on any large scale anyway. The IT world works on long-term support. It also doesn't rely on online-download-only methods for OS installation, because it is neither an efficient nor a terribly customizable means of installing and/or deploying your OS.