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Over-the-Air iOS 7.1 Download Files Deletable in Beta 3

SusanK said:
The developer is being compensated by a company or a client in this scenario. Is that correct? If so than the developer is being compensated. I'm having a little difficulty following the hardship issue.

Updates should not be forced on device owners. We're revenue. Without us a company does not thrive.

The best way to "force" iOS updates is to make the new iOS so attractive that we want it and update voluntarily.

I couldn't wait to upgrade to iOS 5! I waited about a month to upgrade to iOS 6. Instead of writing this post I would be ordering an iPad Air if it was not running iOS 7.
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Yes. That is correct. The developer is being pestered into supporting it. The client/company is being pestered into paying the dev more. The user is being pestered into paying the company more.

All this is forced, if there is enough market share in old versions, you have to support them, or lose potential customers. You see, forcing customers to upgrade is a win-win-win-(maybe lose).

Good point, and if the updates are good, then there is going to be no complaining customers… but that isn't possible. Everything is a matter of opinion, and those with bad opinions should not weight down the entire industry. Don't like iOS7? Suck it up: the industry demands that you aren't part of the "evil market share" numbers.

I think iOS7 is fine, but if you don't, write a formal complaint to Apple highlighting what should be changed and how. They might fix it up in iOS7.1/8, but if they don't, just evaluate whether it's bad enough to leave Apple. If it is, please do. Please don't complain to us either. Complain to Apple, since they can fix it.

Do you understand, now how fragmentation has large negative effects on the industry?
 
brianb568 said:
Yes. That is correct. The developer is being pestered into supporting it. The client/company is being pestered into paying the dev more. The user is being pestered into paying the company more.

All this is forced, if there is enough market share in old versions, you have to support them, or lose potential customers. You see, forcing customers to upgrade is a win-win-win-(maybe lose).

Good point, and if the updates are good, then there is going to be no complaining customers… but that isn't possible. Everything is a matter of opinion, and those with bad opinions should not weight down the entire industry. Don't like iOS7? Suck it up: the industry demands that you aren't part of the "evil market share" numbers.

I think iOS7 is fine, but if you don't, write a formal complaint to Apple highlighting what should be changed and how. They might fix it up in iOS7.1/8, but if they don't, just evaluate whether it's bad enough to leave Apple. If it is, please do. Please don't complain to us either. Complain to Apple, since they can fix it.

Do you understand, now how fragmentation has large negative effects on the industry?
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We the end users have to come up with actual solutions as to how issues, bugs, design inconsistencies, and simply bad decisions have to be fixed? Really? Or the alternative is that we simply have to take what's is given and just shut up no matter if we actually want it or not and no matter if it's actually something that's better or perhaps even worse in some way? Something is clearly quite wrong with that way of thinking.
 
C DM said:
We the end users have to come up with actual solutions as to how issues, bugs, design inconsistencies, and simply bad decisions have to be fixed? Really? Or the alternative is that we simply have to take what's is given and just shut up no matter if we actually want it or not and no matter if it's actually something that's better or perhaps even worse in some way? Something is clearly quite wrong with that way of thinking.
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And you propose clabbering up forums with your whining? Something is clearly quite wrong with that way of thinking. Either do something, or stop whining. Whining is unproductive. So, that only leaves the aforementioned options.
 
brianb568 said:
Good point, and if the updates are good, then there is going to be no complaining customers… but that isn't possible. Everything is a matter of opinion, and those with bad opinions should not weight down the entire industry. Don't like iOS7? Suck it up: the industry demands that you aren't part of the "evil market share" numbers.

I think iOS7 is fine, but if you don't, write a formal complaint to Apple highlighting what should be changed and how. They might fix it up in iOS7.1/8, but if they don't, just evaluate whether it's bad enough to leave Apple. If it is, please do. Please don't complain to us either. Complain to Apple, since they can fix it.

Do you understand, now how fragmentation has large negative effects on the industry?
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I'm sorry but I don't think running Apple is my responsibility. I am satisfied with my device running iOS 6. I am not pleased with iOS 7. As revenue I don't feel the need to report to expense.
 
brianb568 said:
And you propose clabbering up forums with your whining? Something is clearly quite wrong with that way of thinking. Either do something, or stop whining. Whining is unproductive. So, that only leaves the aforementioned options.
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Sorry, it's not my job to do something about it. Perhaps if Apple proposes to hire me and pay me and I would accept then I would spend time figuring that out.

What exactly are user discussion forums for? For end users to come up with solutions for companies? :confused:

I understand that some don't have issues or don't care about issues, but that's what the nature of threads are for--you can skip what you don't care about. Whining might be unproductive in the opinion of some, but it's of some use to others (whatever use it might be to them, it doesn't involve others understanding what that use is really). Trying to redefine what the nature of discussion forums are...now that's quite out there.
 
MisakixMikasa said:
All the government around world are control freak, no questions. However, law mandating smoke detector is for safety of all, not just you. Government mandating lots of things for goods of population at large. Guess what, government can pass any law restraint your civil liberty if majority of your representative agree so, for "public good". I am not saying government are all right, but comparing government order with a company forcing people upgrade to their latest software is completely ridiculous.

Regardless what motive Apple holds for forcing download, it is obviously intrusive to user's perspective and without user's permission is against law as well. Apple doing this maybe because they want all users safety concern, but it might as well Apple wants to control its iOS ecosystem.
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My point is very simply that getting your panties into a bunch over every single thing you don't like is neither good for your blood pressure nor does it help in others taking your complaints seriously. And if you ran a business, wouldn't you also want to ensure that everything works as good as possible?

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zephonic said:
The ability to download over wi-fi. Something I want. When I so choose.

Nowhere did it say that OS updates would be downloaded automatically.
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So what would unchecking that box do for you if it worked like you thought it should? What is the point of having a setting that prevents you from downloading updates by tapping on them? Or a setting that prevents you from downloading email attachments without a trip to the Settings app. What would be the point of reading an email and then when trying to download the attachment by tapping on it nothing happens and you first had to go to the Settings app to 'Enable attachment downloads'.

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B4U said:
If the download can even be deleted to begin with. The fact is that it CANNOT be deleted by the user.
And, using the cars example is different. The highways are not managed by the manufacturer of the vehicles. If the highways are managed by the manufacturer and then the only way to get to and out from the location is by that highway alone and no other roads, then the manufacturer could be potentially be responsible if the speed limit was raised so much within the product's usable life where it is no longer capable to do what it is designed to do.

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Not if the update is FORCED onto the older device where they have no way to recover the used space. It sure takes a rocket scientist to understand this, does it?
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I fully agree with you, there should be an option [to delete it]. But that is a separate point from whether using the default settings should be for it to download updates automatically when on WiFi (and plugged into power).

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numlock said:
how well can it run the latest os?

this is a thread purely on apple so android is totally irrelevant. i dont own an android device so why does that even matter?
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It matters whether your demands are (a) reasonable from a technical point of view and (b) whether Apple is actually make comparably large effort to extent the useful lifespan of their devices.

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sbailey4 said:
So you are advocating doing a restore every day or twice a day to remove the downloaded files? yeah right. Sure I know how but do I really want to do that. um no! Why should I have to anyway, just don't put it on my device to start with. I am also savvy enough to press a download button if I DO want it.
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Nope, you just have to ensure that you switch off WiFi before connecting it to a power source.
 
manu chao said:
My point is very simply that getting your panties into a bunch over every single thing you don't like is neither good for your blood pressure nor does it help in others taking your complaints seriously. And if you ran a business, wouldn't you also want to ensure that everything works as good as possible?

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So what would unchecking that box do for you if it worked like you thought it should? What is the point of having a setting that prevents you from downloading updates by tapping on them? Or a setting that prevents you from downloading email attachments without a trip to the Settings app. What would be the point of reading an email and then when trying to download the attachment by tapping on it nothing happens and you first had to go to the Settings app to 'Enable attachment downloads'.

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I fully agree with you, there should be an option [to delete it]. But that is a separate point from whether using the default settings should be for it to download updates automatically when on WiFi (and plugged into power).

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It matters whether your demands are (a) reasonable from a technical point of view and (b) whether Apple is actually make comparably large effort to extent the useful lifespan of their devices.

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Nope, you just have to ensure that you switch off WiFi before connecting it to a power source.
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Yeah, clearly instead of having a completely reasonable and straightforward option it should be on the end user to do extraneous things to get around it all. Not only that, but also do something that comes with a cost on top of it--like losing automatic WiFi/iCloud backup that would otherwise be done when connected to a power source while on a WiFi network.

Yeah, to make a left turn we should simply make three right turns...it gets the job done. :rolleyes:
 
unplugme71 said:
It may not be a common problem, but i'm sure there is at least several hundred thousand if not a few million people that connect through wifi using a Sat connection. Farmers, those on oil rigs, ships, etc..
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Maybe not an ideal solution but this could possibly be dealt with by using the update caching software in os x server.
 
manu chao said:
I fully agree with you, there should be an option [to delete it]. But that is a separate point from whether using the default settings should be for it to download updates automatically when on WiFi (and plugged into power).
Click to expand...

Like someone has pointed out, we should make 3 right turns to turn left...
Or, maybe just simply make the left turn directly?

Like my last reply to you. Instead of getting stabbed, and then heal and get stabbed again. How about don't stab us to begin with?

You simply did not agree with me or was reading it differently.
 
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brianb568 said:
You have no guarantee that old tech will work. No need to waste people's time supporting that old of devices. Cheap hardware is deprecated in 2 years, unsupported in 4 years. Expensive hardware is deprecated in 4 years, unsupported in 6 years. Software is deprecated in 6 months, unsupported in 2 years. (all for major releases) I think that all is fine. Come back to complain if people are doing less than that.
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You completely mis-understood what I was saying. My brother thought that iOS7 wouldn't cripple his iPhone, it's an official update from Apple themselves.

Then he discovered he could not switch back to iOS6. That's the problem.

I think what Apple is doing in terms of support is better than Android. However, the way they go about it is the problem. Auto-download of updates without the ability to delete it (in OS6) are the first two problems. If you didn't upgrade you lost around 2-3GB of space. And If you updated and things didn't run as smoothly as before, you couldn't downgrade.

Apple's stuff is supposed to "just work" but when a problem like this happens you get all the Apple fanboy apologists come out of the woodwork. Sometimes it's as bad as reading Android or Microsoft forums.

And please, this is not about the iOS7 GUI being different than iO6. This is about forced upgrades on older hardware that can barely run it. Some iOS6 programs are a bit slow on my 3GS but otherwise run fine.

Also, stop with the "just get a new iPhone" replies too. First of all not everyone is able to afford a new iPhone every year and secondly there's already enough e-waste in the world, some of us are trying to use our devices as long as we can even if it means lagging behind in terms of updates. When we even get that choice anyway, which is the main problem here.
 
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Yvan256 said:
You completely mis-understood what I was saying. My brother thought that iOS7 wouldn't cripple his iPhone, it's an official update from Apple themselves.

Then he discovered he could not switch back to iOS6. That's the problem.

I think what Apple is doing in terms of support is better than Android. However, the way they go about it is the problem. Auto-download of updates without the ability to delete it (in OS6) are the first two problems. If you didn't upgrade you lost around 2-3GB of space. And If you updated and things didn't run as smoothly as before, you couldn't downgrade.

Apple's stuff is supposed to "just work" but when a problem like this happens you get all the Apple fanboy apologists come out of the woodwork. Sometimes it's as bad as reading Android or Microsoft forums.

And please, this is not about the iOS7 GUI being different than iO6. This is about forced upgrades on older hardware that can barely run it. Some iOS6 programs are a bit slow on my 3GS but otherwise run fine.

Also, stop with the "just get a new iPhone" replies too. First of all not everyone is able to afford a new iPhone every year and secondly there's already enough e-waste in the world, some of us are trying to use our devices as long as we can even if it means lagging behind in terms of updates. When we even get that choice anyway, which is the main problem here.
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Ok. Apple shouldn't have iOS7 marked as "compatible". Oh, and get a new phone.

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C DM said:
Sorry, it's not my job to do something about it. Perhaps if Apple proposes to hire me and pay me and I would accept then I would spend time figuring that out.

What exactly are user discussion forums for? For end users to come up with solutions for companies? :confused:

I understand that some don't have issues or don't care about issues, but that's what the nature of threads are for--you can skip what you don't care about. Whining might be unproductive in the opinion of some, but it's of some use to others (whatever use it might be to them, it doesn't involve others understanding what that use is really). Trying to redefine what the nature of discussion forums are...now that's quite out there.
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Whining and discussion aren't the same thing. One difference is that discussion is useful.
 
brianb568 said:
Ok. Apple shouldn't have iOS7 marked as "compatible". Oh, and get a new phone.

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Whining and discussion aren't the same thing. One difference is that discussion is useful.
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Who says that nothing useful has come out of threads where whining happens?
 
manu chao said:
It matters whether your demands are (a) reasonable from a technical point of view and (b) whether Apple is actually make comparably large effort to extent the useful lifespan of their devices.
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well the thing is not everyone is that happy with how a 3 year old device runs the latest os and they have no remedy for that. well if they dont upgrade apple steals your space. how is that supporting older devices? what is technically unreasonable about allowing people to be on ios6 if they want?

and the rest of your post is subjective and moot. i can say i find that for the price of a top of the line smart phone today it should work longer with some of the newest features. you may disagree. and apple and co want to sell more devices. but we are not talking about devices that cost a $100 here

with regards to your previous reply to me then im not saying that the first 2-3 gens should have to be able to run ios7 but why not implement features that you can.
  • 3.1.3 does not support cardav. so how are you supposed to sync contacts if you have the latest itunes?
  • your messages will not restore from an ios3 backup to ios7
  • how do you start a facetime audio call from ios6?
  • its possible to skype from one of the older iphones but not facetime. how is that possible?
 
brianb568 said:
Nobody. Who says something useful comes out of whining posts?
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To those who decide to post something and participate (not counting those who post to put down those posts), seems like something useful can come out for them, whatever that might be. Sometimes even more can potentially come out of it all too.
 
Being able to access the internal folder tree and delete the auto-downloaded upgrade was my only reason to jailbreak my iPad 2. Oh, and I disabled the "check update" and "auto update" switches thanks to a small utility. No other mod was performed.
 
B4U said:
Like someone has pointed out, we should make 3 right turns to turn left...
Or, maybe just simply make the left turn directly?

Like my last reply to you. Instead of getting stabbed, and then heal and get stabbed again. How about don't stab us to begin with?

You simply did not agree with me or was reading it differently.
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So, you say for saving the minority that does not want to update the trouble of manually deleting the update, the majority should have wait for the update to download when they decide to update?

This is not about the current situation it is about two hypothetical situations:
(1) No updates download automatically (and even after downloading them manually you can still delete them).
(2) Updates download by default automatically but you can switch that off and you can manually delete them.

I say conveniencing the majority and inconveniencing the minority is the better solution, in particular if deleting an update is much quicker than downloading one.

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numlock said:
with regards to your previous reply to me then im not saying that the first 2-3 gens should have to be able to run ios7 but why not implement features that you can?
Click to expand...
Because Apple doesn't want to maintain multiple operating systems in parallel. Apple wants its customers to run as many as possible of its devices with the same OS version. By focussing all attention (incl. that of third-parties) on one OS version, that OS version gets maximum support. Yes, Apple is making running several year-old devices slightly less attractive than it could by not implementing some features it technically could implement. If you multiply existing devices by number of features they could technically support and compare that to what they actually have as features, you'll like get that Apple is offering 90% of what is technically possible.

Apple gives you about three years of feature parity with the newest devices (hardware permitting) whereas Google (or rather the handset manufacturers & the telecoms) gives you between 0 and 12 months (0 for those phones launching with a non-current OS version). But Apple is the evil guy.

iPhones get about two full feature updates (ie, OS versions) depending on when you buy in the product cycle between one and three (bought iPhone 4 during its first year and you got iOS 5, 6, and 7, bought it in its second year and you got 6 and 7, bought it in its final year got the iOS 7 update).
 
manu chao said:
So, you say for saving the minority that does not want to update the trouble of manually deleting the update, the majority should have wait for the update to download when they decide to update?

This is not about the current situation it is about two hypothetical situations:
(1) No updates download automatically (and even after downloading them manually you can still delete them).
(2) Updates download by default automatically but you can switch that off and you can manually delete them.

I say conveniencing the majority and inconveniencing the minority is the better solution, in particular if deleting an update is much quicker than downloading one.

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Because Apple doesn't want to maintain multiple operating systems in parallel. Apple wants its customers to run as many as possible of its devices with the same OS version. By focussing all attention (incl. that of third-parties) on one OS version, that OS version gets maximum support. Yes, Apple is making running several year-old devices slightly less attractive than it could by not implementing some features it technically could implement. If you multiply existing devices by number of features they could technically support and compare that to what they actually have as features, you'll like get that Apple is offering 90% of what is technically possible.

Apple gives you about three years of feature parity with the newest devices (hardware permitting) whereas Google (or rather the handset manufacturers & the telecoms) gives you between 0 and 12 months (0 for those phones launching with a non-current OS version). But Apple is the evil guy.

iPhones get about two full feature updates (ie, OS versions) depending on when you buy in the product cycle between one and three (bought iPhone 4 during its first year and you got iOS 5, 6, and 7, bought it in its second year and you got 6 and 7, bought it in its final year got the iOS 7 update).
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Most normal OSs give you a choice as to whether you want automatic updates or not. It's not a convenience for many not to have a choice. That's not how the logic there works.

As for maintaining multiple versions and all that, nothing would be forcing Apple to do anything more than what they are doing now. They don't have to do anything about a previous version other than allow for it to be installed. They cetainly don't have to do anything now with older versions and plenty of people are still on them and Apple is still doing whatever they want to be doing without worrying about those users.
 
manu chao said:
So, you say for saving the minority that does not want to update the trouble of manually deleting the update, the majority should have wait for the update to download when they decide to update?

This is not about the current situation it is about two hypothetical situations:
(1) No updates download automatically (and even after downloading them manually you can still delete them).
(2) Updates download by default automatically but you can switch that off and you can manually delete them.

I say conveniencing the majority and inconveniencing the minority is the better solution, in particular if deleting an update is much quicker than downloading one.
Click to expand...


Is it really that complicated to understand?
1) We are not living in a world run by dictators. We do not need to be told what to do.
2) We do NOT have the option to choose whether the automatic download can be turned off for software update.
3) When it was forced onto our devices, we are NOT given the option to remove it.

Now, finish reading and come back again.
 
C DM said:
They don't like it for one reason or another? It's kind of crazy to think that everyone should like the same things that everyone else, right?
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Its the best mobile OS around, so yes its crazy that anyone on a iPhone 5 would not install it.
 
checker2010 said:
Its the best mobile OS around, so yes its crazy that anyone on a iPhone 5 would not install it.
Click to expand...
Best is fairly subjective...which again leads back to everyone being able to have different opinions about it.
 
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