Over-the-Air iOS 7.1 Download Files Deletable in Beta 3

[KdParker]

Using XP and Windows 8 as an argument is just genius. Please remind me when did XP come out?

That is the point.

As time moves forward software changes and eventually you old hardware will not run the new stuff. So you have a choice stay (ie i0S6 on iPhone4 or lower) or upgrade and run the latest software.

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I did not tell them to do the upgrade, and in past they did not upgrade on their own. I usually manage their computer.

I think my dad did this, but he cannot remember.
Their memory is not that good any more.

So, the problem is if one souldn't use iOS 7, there is no way to go back.

That was made clear before the update was done but I guess not everyone read or caught that in the notes.

 

[KdParker]

That's about right. Apple decides to listen now AFTER it has forced everyone to upgrade to iOS 7, and then blagged about how wonderful iOS 7 adoption numbers are to the rest of the world!!

I have played a bit more lately with the in house iPad 3 and I agree, iOS 7 runs very poor on it. IOS 6 was fantastic, smooth with no issues, now it lags with keyboard inputs even! IOS 7 is the worst piece of software Apple has ever made, full of bugs and its totally unapologetically FORM OVER FUNCTION. All thanks to Ives.

Still not sure about this forced to upgrade claim.

 

[C DM]

Because if people have the option to pass on an iOS update, that opens the door for a lot of them to stick with an earlier version than the one that's currently out...

People still have the option to pass on an update, and some still do. This option doesn't really do much in that respect.

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No. This is for the stability of the software industry, and by extension those who use software. Fragmentation is bad. Companies have to spend money (raising prices) to pay a developer (who is extremely annoyed about his position and pay) to waste time on people that aren't willing to change, event for the betterment of the industry. The development will be slower, forcing everyone to enjoy the bugs submitted 2 years ago.

Yeah, because we've seen what happens with Windows software when multiple OS versions are supported...the software vendors just go out of business quickly and software just suffers...right?

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Ios 7 was downloaded but not installed so all he had to do was backup, erase and restore. The installer gets trashed in the process. Been that way for a while. I was doing it back when I had stuff on iOS 5 that needed to be tested on iOS 6 before a total upgrade.

Now I will give you that perhaps it would be useful for managed devices to be able to block auto downloads, only because some slub would hit install without thinking about it and screw himself up cause that in house software isn't ready for it. But for general users it isn't really a major deal. Most folks didn't drop a giant load in the UI changes like folks around here. Nor do they run MDM etc

Ah, so to make a left turn you can just make 3 right turns, right? I guess that's a far more reasonable workaround--no real reason to find a way to actually make a left turn when you can do that, right?

 

[ITGuy]

Ios 7 was downloaded but not installed so all he had to do was backup, erase and restore. The installer gets trashed in the process. Been that way for a while. I was doing it back when I had stuff on iOS 5 that needed to be tested on iOS 6 before a total upgrade.

Your suggestion above is not a proper solution. Once Apple stopped signing IOS 6, a restore would ONLY permit the installation of IOS 7.

Apple should simply provide the option to not download IOS software updates automatically, as it currently does with other downloads.

-ITG

 

[sbailey4]

That is the point.

As time moves forward software changes and eventually you old hardware will not run the new stuff. So you have a choice stay (ie i0S6 on iPhone4 or lower) or upgrade and run the latest software.

I believe we are agreeing. So Apple should not force iOS updates down to a users device. You actually don't really have a choice. The update comes down without your permission. And if you happen to restore for any reason you will be forced to get the latest. That should not be is all anybody is saying. Especially on older hardware that may not perform as well.

 

[numlock]

I believe we are agreeing. So Apple should not force iOS updates down to a users device. You actually don't really have a choice. The update comes down without your permission. And if you happen to restore for any reason you will be forced to get the latest. That should not be is all anybody is saying. Especially on older hardware that may not perform as well.

i was setting up my sisters old iphone 4 for my mom and once its get a wifi connections it starts downloading right away. absolutely ridiculous. i turned of the wifi right away and filled it up with music to take away all empty space.

its really two separate yet intertwining moves by apple. how short a lifespan a device has with new ios releases and then the unwanted download.

how this over the air download isnt a bigger issue is beyond me. not sure if that or apple blasting us with ios adoptions rates reeks of more insecurity

 

[C DM]

You guys do know you can turn off the automatic downloads for the system updates (don't know about ios 6 but true for ios 7)? In fact for music apps and iBooks as well. Settings>iTunes & App Store>Automatic downloads

Don't think that's related to automatic downloads of OS updates.

 

[B4U]

So whats your point?

iPhone 4 came out 3 years ago, but was also 3 OS iterations ago.
However, it was fine when running iOS 6, which is the last iteration of iOS.

You, on the other hand, provided an example of a machine designed to run XP and is fine when running XP, but is terrible with Windows 8.
This is totally different.

A better version of your point should have been that the machine was designed for XP, but was running fine with Windows 7, but sucks with Windows 8.

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That is the point.

As time moves forward software changes and eventually you old hardware will not run the new stuff. So you have a choice stay (ie i0S6 on iPhone4 or lower) or upgrade and run the latest software.

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That was made clear before the update was done but I guess not everyone read or caught that in the notes.

I totally understand the fact that the 3 year old device is getting old, but it does not change the fact that all those people failed to understand the fact that the update files were FORCED into the device where the only option we were given are either suck it up and install it which would essentially make the device unusable or have the storage space getting eaten up by an update that should not have been downloaded in the first place.

 

[manu chao]

its really two separate yet intertwining moves by apple. how short a lifespan a device has with new ios releases and then the unwanted download.

how this over the air download isnt a bigger issue is beyond me. not sure if that or apple blasting us with ios adoptions rates reeks of more insecurity

Tell me again about short lifespan, an iPhone 4 released in 2010, can still run the latest OS (and thus almost all apps), whereas an Android phone bought in 2010 probably hasn't been on the current OS for the last three years, it might even have shipped with a then non-current OS version.

Is it your opinion that Apple should have released iOS 7 also for the 3Gs and 3G? I might be slightly off in regard to the precise number but the A7 is 25x faster than what the first iPhone shipped with (with the 3G only marginally faster). An OS that could run on the 3G would have to be quite different than what we now have with iOS7. That average of three years with the current OS for any iPhone bought might seem short but the change on the hardware side has really been dramatic in the last seven years. Imagine seven year old cars with only 1/25th of the power of a current car.

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I understand the fact that the 3 year old device is getting old, but it does not change the fact that all those people failed to understand the fact that the update files were FORCED into the device where the only option we were given are either suck it up and install it which would essentially make the device unusable or have the storage space getting eaten up by an update that should not have been downloaded in the first place.

The fact other people fail to understand is that one sometimes should just suck it up and get on with life instead. Almost every user coming even from something as old as iOS 3 or 4 will have no problems operating iOS7, which is not exactly what happened with Windows 8.

 

[C DM]

Tell me again about short lifespan, an iPhone 4 released in 2010, can still run the latest OS (and thus almost all apps), whereas an Android phone bought in 2010 probably hasn't been on the current OS for the last three years, it might even have shipped with a then non-current OS version.

Is it your opinion that Apple should have released iOS 7 also for the 3Gs and 3G? I might be slightly off in regard to the precise number but the A7 is 25x faster than what the first iPhone shipped with (with the 3G only marginally faster). An OS that could run on the 3G would have to be quite different than what we now have with iOS7. That average of three years with the current OS for any iPhone bought might seem short but the change on the hardware side has really been dramatic in the last seven years. Imagine seven year old cars with only 1/25th of the power of a current car.

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The fact other people fail to understand is that one sometimes should just suck it up and get on with life instead. Almost every user coming even from something as old as iOS 3 or 4 will have no problems operating iOS7, which is not exactly what happened with Windows 8.

So...because it's not as bad as what happened with Windows 8 makes it good? It can still be bad one some level, or at least not good, and there's nothing wrong in trying to discuss why is it that it couldn't have been better.

 

[brianb568]

No, it is not. It is purely because Apple is control freak. You never seen Microsoft forcing you update to latest Windows 8.1, heck you don't even seen Apple forcing you download latest OS X. Why would iOS any different? If for your reason “Stability of software industry", Apple should force you update to latest OS X, but that did not happen.

If you avoid fragmentation, you build better software with good features, but not forcing everyone upgrade by forcing downloading updates, occupying storage space.

What? Because bob does it bad, that means that everyone has to do it bad? What does Microsoft have to do with anything? We all know what happened with Microsoft, anyway. iOS fragmentation is much more important than OSX fragmentation because mobile is still new and changing. iOS7 app-benificial features are aplenty, to the point that apps require iOS7. OSX? It'll run on anything from Snow Leopard. User Interfaces are changing too, and an iOS 7 app will look very strange on iOS 6.

Building good software will not prevent fragmentation, but I agree that there should be a way to turn off over-the-air downloads. Not delete, not uninstall, but maybe have an option to prevent OTA downloads.

 

[SusanK]

No. This is for the stability of the software industry, and by extension those who use software. Fragmentation is bad. Companies have to spend money (raising prices) to pay a developer (who is extremely annoyed about his position and pay) to waste time on people that aren't willing to change, event for the betterment of the industry. The development will be slower, forcing everyone to enjoy the bugs submitted 2 years ago.

If the developers are so distressed about iOS 6 don't develop for it. This constant whining from developers is old. Do something else. We really don't care if you support iOS 6 or not. We're happy with it. No loss for us.

 

[manu chao]

.
3) iPhone 4 came out in 2010, but iOS 7 cannot be ran in a device only about 3 years old.

(a) I know several people with an iPhone 4 which runs iOS7 perfectly fine and nobody who is real problems with it. But some people like to state as a fact what fits their narrative.
(b) The iPhone 5s is about 25x as fast as the original iPhone. It's not Apple's fault, that mobile technology has improved at such a pace. If cars with a top speed of 40 mph aren't allowed on the highways anymore because they just don't fit into the traffic flow anymore, would you blame the car manufacturers for this?

4) The update files should not even be FORCED onto the device.

There should be an option but the default should be the automatic download as for the vast majority of people not having to wait is collective a much larger bonus than for a few having to delete it again.

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So...because it's not as bad as what happened with Windows 8 makes it good? It can still be bad one some level, or at least not good, and there's nothing wrong in trying to discuss why is it that it couldn't have been better.

In terms of UI continuity, iOS7 is the polar opposite to Windows 8. That was my point. People describe iOS7 as the end of the world when it clearly is largely a non-issue. Yes, sometimes one has to point cases where people have reason to complain to make it utterly clear how insignificant their complaints are.

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That's a work around. And one you can't expect those that aren't savvy to do.

I can expect those complaining here with such self-assurance to be savvy enough to it. If one is so certain how things should be done, then one clearly should be savvy enough for this.

 

[manu chao]

You have install smoke detector because it is written in the law and it is for your and your community's safety. Force downloading updates or force update software it is not.

This has nothing to do with changing world or anything, it is all because Apple is a control freak.

And government that demands smoke detectors is not a control freak? And guess what, laws that demand smoke detectors haven't come into force globally in the same year. According to Wikipedia, it started in the US in the 70ties, in the UK in 1992 and in Germany in the mid-2000s (with some 'states' only starting last year), to give just a few examples. One would think that in such a government-sceptic country like the US such intrusive laws would be less likely to be found than in such socialist continental European countries like Germany. But maybe it has also something to do with the predominant building material in the respective countries.

Isn't it nice to always be able to categorise things as either fully self-evident or completely bonkers. Makes it possible to always insult others with complete self-confidence.

 

[MisakixMikasa]

And government that demands smoke detectors is not a control freak? And guess what, laws that demand smoke detectors haven't come into force globally in the same year. According to Wikipedia, it started in the US in the 70ties, in the UK in 1992 and in Germany in the mid-2000s (with some 'states' only starting last year), to give just a few examples. One would think that in such a government-sceptic country like the US such intrusive laws would be less likely to be found than in such socialist continental European countries like Germany. But maybe it has also something to do with the predominant building material in the respective countries.

Isn't it nice to always be able to categorise things as either fully self-evident or completely bonkers. Makes it possible to always insult others with complete self-confidence.

All the government around world are control freak, no questions. However, law mandating smoke detector is for safety of all, not just you. Government mandating lots of things for goods of population at large. Guess what, government can pass any law restraint your civil liberty if majority of your representative agree so, for "public good". I am not saying government are all right, but comparing government order with a company forcing people upgrade to their latest software is completely ridiculous.

Regardless what motive Apple holds for forcing download, it is obviously intrusive to user's perspective and without user's permission is against law as well. Apple doing this maybe because they want all users safety concern, but it might as well Apple wants to control its iOS ecosystem.

 

[zephonic]

What do you think the term "Enable WiFi downloads" meant?

The ability to download over wi-fi. Something I want. When I so choose.

Nowhere did it say that OS updates would be downloaded automatically.

 

[B4U]

(a) I know several people with an iPhone 4 which runs iOS7 perfectly fine and nobody who is real problems with it. But some people like to state as a fact what fits their narrative.
(b) The iPhone 5s is about 25x as fast as the original iPhone. It's not Apple's fault, that mobile technology has improved at such a pace. If cars with a top speed of 40 mph aren't allowed on the highways anymore because they just don't fit into the traffic flow anymore, would you blame the car manufacturers for this?

There should be an option but the default should be the automatic download as for the vast majority of people not having to wait is collective a much larger bonus than for a few having to delete it again.

If the download can even be deleted to begin with. The fact is that it CANNOT be deleted by the user.
And, using the cars example is different. The highways are not managed by the manufacturer of the vehicles. If the highways are managed by the manufacturer and then the only way to get to and out from the location is by that highway alone and no other roads, then the manufacturer could be potentially be responsible if the speed limit was raised so much within the product's usable life where it is no longer capable to do what it is designed to do.

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The fact other people fail to understand is that one sometimes should just suck it up and get on with life instead. Almost every user coming even from something as old as iOS 3 or 4 will have no problems operating iOS7, which is not exactly what happened with Windows 8.

Not if the update is FORCED onto the older device where they have no way to recover the used space. It sure takes a rocket scientist to understand this, does it?

 

[numlock]

Tell me again about short lifespan, an iPhone 4 released in 2010, can still run the latest OS (and thus almost all apps), whereas an Android phone bought in 2010 probably hasn't been on the current OS for the last three years, it might even have shipped with a then non-current OS version.

how well can it run the latest os?

this is a thread purely on apple so android is totally irrelevant. i dont own an android device so why does that even matter?

 

[brianb568]

If the developers are so distressed about iOS 6 don't develop for it. This constant whining from developers is old. Do something else. We really don't care if you support iOS 6 or not. We're happy with it. No loss for us.

Yeah. The developers won't want to, but there is always some manager or client from hell who will make them. Everything would be great if the whole job system wasn't a mess, but sadly that isn't the case .

Anyway, to sum it up:

• Fragmentation is bad
• Fragmentations should be avoided at all costs
• OTA updates should be able to be switched off
• …but updates should still be forced somehow

 

[sbailey4]

I can expect those complaining here with such self-assurance to be savvy enough to it. If one is so certain how things should be done, then one clearly should be savvy enough for this.

So you are advocating doing a restore every day or twice a day to remove the downloaded files? yeah right. Sure I know how but do I really want to do that. um no! Why should I have to anyway, just don't put it on my device to start with. I am also savvy enough to press a download button if I DO want it.

 

[charlituna]

Ah, so to make a left turn you can just make 3 right turns, right? I guess that's a far more reasonable workaround--no real reason to find a way to actually make a left turn when you can do that, right?

My comment was in reply to several folks saying once the file downloads you MUST install or be stuck with loss of space. Regardless of the 'work around' nature of what I said, that it works proves they are wrong. You can actually not install and recover the space.

 

[C DM]

My comment was in reply to several folks saying once the file downloads you MUST install or be stuck with loss of space. Regardless of the 'work around' nature of what I said, that it works proves they are wrong. You can actually not install and recover the space.

So, even with that, I believe as others posted, they have either found the install file on their phone after the wipe/restore, or it got downloaded once again soon afterward. So, what does that workaround really accomplish realistically, even in the best case scenario, beyond perhaps a tiny bit of time of not having the install file until it downloads again, all for the much bigger hassle of wiping and restoring the phone?

 

[B4U]

My comment was in reply to several folks saying once the file downloads you MUST install or be stuck with loss of space. Regardless of the 'work around' nature of what I said, that it works proves they are wrong. You can actually not install and recover the space.

So, we should get stabbed then heal, and then get stabbed again and then heal again, and repeat?

How about just don't stab us to begin with?

 

[SusanK]

Yeah. The developers won't want to, but there is always some manager or client from hell who will make them. Everything would be great if the whole job system wasn't a mess, but sadly that isn't the case .

Anyway, to sum it up:

• Fragmentation is bad
• Fragmentations should be avoided at all costs
• OTA updates should be able to be switched off
• …but updates should still be forced somehow

The developer is being compensated by a company or a client in this scenario. Is that correct? If so than the developer is being compensated. I'm having a little difficulty following the hardship issue.

Updates should not be forced on device owners. We're revenue. Without us a company does not thrive.

The best way to "force" iOS updates is to make the new iOS so attractive that we want it and update voluntarily.

I couldn't wait to upgrade to iOS 5! I waited about a month to upgrade to iOS 6. Instead of writing this post I would be ordering an iPad Air if it was not running iOS 7.

 

[Silverbird0000]

Stop with the "everyone should stop complaining and use iOS7" comments already. It's not always about the new interface or the new icons.

My brother has an iPhone 4 and iOS7 has rendered his iPhone almost unusable. It was running fine with iOS6.

He's now thinking about switching to Android since Apple doesn't care about supporting older devices and even going to extreme like making them useless to force people to upgrade to new versions.

Is that really what you people want? People so pissed at Apple that they will switch to something else instead?

edit: and please don't reply with "don't update" or "read about it" or something similar. If Apple sends an update that basically kills your device WITH NO OPTION OF REVERTING to the previous version, it's a broken QA test and a broken design on Apple's part. One does not expect the maker of a device to render it useless. And if they do, then they just lost a customer.

Really? Phones running Android are obsolete 6 months after they come out and users are lucky to even get one update. The iPhone 4 is 3 and a half years old. It is a dinosaur in tech terms. It has gotten 4 iOS updates. Of course it is going to run iOS 7 slow. If iOS 7 made an iPhone 5 slow and unusable, then I could understand. The answer is to upgrade to a newer model, it's time to give up the phone from 2010.