Overpaid $150 Buying From Apple!!!

[Signal-11]

Again, the constitutionality of any of e-commerce taxation is still in debate. Perhaps you missed the part where I said "in most cases"...

I can't speak about British Columbia, but if you buy a notebook from Amazon while living in California or Idaho (your two examples) you are not legally obligated to pay sales tax for them.

However, if the same situation happens while you're living in New York then it's a different matter, and even then that might not stand - though the smart money is on it sticking. (Amazon of course, already charges sales tax in New York.)

Ultimately, each state's laws on the matter of e-commerce taxation DO NOT trump the 1992 Quill Corp v North Dakota ruling. I am well aware that each state has different laws on the matter.

*Actually, I see that the link you cited is referring to the use tax in Idaho, in which case my last paragraph does not apply. Still, in most cases, it's not absolutely not tax evasion to not pay sales tax on Amazon purchases if you're not being charged for it already. My point is, the whole e-commerce taxation thing is up in the air, but if you're not being charged tax at the time of purchase from something you got from Amazon, then it's likely you do not have any legal obligation to pay sales tax on that item (even if your state has use tax laws). Thus, that's why it's such a big deal for these states to be able to charge sales tax from Amazon since they know any other method won't hold water.

This is not an e-commerce issue. It's an interstate commerce issue. I think you might be confusing the two.

You are obligated for taxable goods purchased from another state if you did not pay the sales tax at the point of sale. It's just not often enforced.

If I live in Maryland, go shopping in Delaware and then go back to Maryland, I am legally obligated to pay Maryland the tax on the sales. Every once in a while, you'll see states surrounding the sales tax free states reminding people about this.

This is NOT a controversial or nebulous concept. This is the way things have been since the days of Sears and Roebuck.

The retailer collecting taxes on behalf of the out of state customer's locality for internet purchases is another issue entirely.

 

[dacreativeguy]

Not sure where everyone buys their Apple laptops from, but after using my brand new 13" MacBook Pro for about a week now, I got a link from my sister for the 13" on Amazon and noticed they have it for $40 less than the Apple Store and don't even charge tax??

I paid around $1310 for it at the Valley Fair Apple Store here in California, but if I were to buy it from Amazon it would only be $1159.30 which is a difference of $150.70!! I looked on Amazon's website and it turns out they only tax in Kansas, Kentucky, North Dakota, New York and Washington? Am I the only one that doesn't know about this??

Now I feel really disappointed (and stupid) that I didn't see this before - is there any way I can return my laptop to Apple without incurring a restocking fee? This is a total kick in the nuts, $150 is a ton of money.

Anyways, not sure what other people's purchasing experiences have been, but if this helps anyone else save some money and avoid the mistake I made, at least I won't feel so bad if I can't return it.

I just bought a MB Pro from Amazon. You can't beat free shipping and no tax (which is a 9.5% discount in CA). I also have an Amazon visa that gives 3x points on Amazon purchases. So I ended up getting $75 back in Amazon gift cards as well. And, unlike Best Buy or other 3rd party retailers, Amazon's Macs are all the same model numbers as the Apple Store. So if you get a bad one (has been happening way too often lately!), you can take it to the Apple Store and get an immediate exchange (It takes a little coaxing but I've done it twice... unfortunately).

 

[SchneiderMan]

Amazon may not charge tax, but you still have to pay it. Any item you buy without paying sales tax you have to list in your next tax return and pay tax then. I know that many people "forget" this, but you haven't overpaid $150. Amazon gave you a $40 lower price and a $100 opportunity to commit tax evasion.

you do that really? most people dont and that ok, nothing will happen and you will not be asked to pay it back 100%. thats bs
its not your problem but amazon's, they might have some kind of deal with the government..
thanks but i will enjoy not paying tax on internet tlol

 

[suekitch]

you do that really? most people dont and that ok, nothing will happen and you will not be asked to pay it back 100%. thats bs
its not your problem but amazon's, they might have some kind of deal with the government..
thanks but i will enjoy not paying tax on internet tlol

Is there no chance that you guys will get caught though? If they see an expensive, new toy coming in from a tax-free state to one where you do pay tax?

At least here, if I order from the states to save a bit of cash, if customs get a hold of it as it comes into the country I'll end up needing to pay VAT plus extra for the privelege of them discovering it.

We can pretty much guarantee it getting 'caught' if we use an insured delivery service, like a courier.

I once sent a friend a gift of some old DVDs (UK to Norway) and they got stopped and stuck; he would've had to pay equivalent of £30 to pick them up and they weren't worth anywhere near!

There's this little group of islands called the Channel Islands near to us, too. A lot of online retailers have based themselves there because on the Channel Islands, they don't pay tax. This means they can sell to us at the reduced prices as well. To a limit though - and it's either £18 or £30 I can't remember if they changed it - so you have to be careful ordering items above that value. They declare on the package the item's worth. I'm surprised they don't do that if you're ordering from a tax free state?

 

[SchneiderMan]

Is there no chance that you guys will get caught though? If they see an expensive, new toy coming in from a tax-free state to one where you do pay tax?

At least here, if I order from the states to save a bit of cash, if customs get a hold of it as it comes into the country I'll end up needing to pay VAT plus extra for the privelege of them discovering it.

We can pretty much guarantee it getting 'caught' if we use an insured delivery service, like a courier.

I once sent a friend a gift of some old DVDs (UK to Norway) and they got stopped and stuck; he would've had to pay equivalent of £30 to pick them up and they weren't worth anywhere near!

There's this little group of islands called the Channel Islands near to us, too. A lot of online retailers have based themselves there because on the Channel Islands, they don't pay tax. This means they can sell to us at the reduced prices as well. To a limit though - and it's either £18 or £30 I can't remember if they changed it - so you have to be careful ordering items above that value. They declare on the package the item's worth. I'm surprised they don't do that if you're ordering from a tax free state?

what?? ok so california isnt tax-free right, so amazon doesnt charge tax right but they do ship the product from california, so i just bought a tax-free product in california..

 

[dacreativeguy]

what?? ok so california isnt tax-free right, so amazon doesnt charge tax right but they do ship the product from california, so i just bought a tax-free product in california..

Amazon drop ships a lot of products, meaning they have partners (like Apple) who maintain the inventories and Amazon just tells them where to send the item once it has been ordered. Amazon doesn't own these warehouses and therefore has no physical presence where they are located.

If you want a good analogy, think of Amazon as a bittorrent tracker. They provide the front end, but in a lot of cases never actually touch the merchandise that flows through their system.

 

[gnasher729]

Your not committing tax evasion, your creating a stimulus package for yourself.

You must be a banker.

 

[gnasher729]

Where do you guys hear this lunacy? Seriously, send me some links.

http://www.ebaymainstreet.com/policy-papers/streamlined-sales-tax-project

For the love of God, buying something from Amazon without being charged sales tax (assuming Amazon doesn't charge sales tax in your state) is NOT tax evasion.

Your link is about eBay complaining that they don't want to collect sales tax, neither now nor in the future. And it is understandable in the USA, because there are 50 states, and each has its different rules, and probably many states have even different rules internally depending on where you live, so if an eBay seller making 100 sales had to send the right amount of tax to the right tax office that could be a nightmare. On the other hand, in the UK VAT is very simple: Just send 15% to the UK tax office. No excuses there.

But buying from Amazon without being charged sales tax is not what makes it tax evasion: When Amazon doesn't charge you sales tax, that only means it isn't Amazon's responsibility to make sure that the tax is paid, but it is yours. There isn't and there has never been an argument whether having to pay that tax is legal or illegal or not; there have been plenty of arguments whether a state is or isn't or should be or shouldn't be allowed to force a seller to collect the tax on behalf of the state, instead of relying on the honesty of its citizens.

Is there no chance that you guys will get caught though? If they see an expensive, new toy coming in from a tax-free state to one where you do pay tax?

I think companies selling "tax-free" cigarettes have been forced to give their customer lists to the IRS, which then compared that list to the tax returns of those customers.

 

[mdgolom]

Not sure where everyone buys their Apple laptops from, but after using my brand new 13" MacBook Pro for about a week now, I got a link from my sister for the 13" on Amazon and noticed they have it for $40 less than the Apple Store and don't even charge tax??

I paid around $1310 for it at the Valley Fair Apple Store here in California, but if I were to buy it from Amazon it would only be $1159.30 which is a difference of $150.70!! I looked on Amazon's website and it turns out they only tax in Kansas, Kentucky, North Dakota, New York and Washington? Am I the only one that doesn't know about this??

Now I feel really disappointed (and stupid) that I didn't see this before - is there any way I can return my laptop to Apple without incurring a restocking fee? This is a total kick in the nuts, $150 is a ton of money.

Anyways, not sure what other people's purchasing experiences have been, but if this helps anyone else save some money and avoid the mistake I made, at least I won't feel so bad if I can't return it.

You won't be able to return it to Apple without incurring the restock fee. I tend to buy from Apple, but I get the education discount which is about the same as the Amazon discount, but a free printer and iPod it made sense. I have been know to drive from Maryland to Delaware to buy from Apple since there is no sales tax there.

 

[SnowLeopard2008]

I buy from a store. What if it gets damaged during shipment? Or is defective? Or ... etc. Honestly, if you're gonna go and try to scrounge every penny, it's not worth it. You spend lots of time, which is more valuable than $150. And plus you're paying $1000+. Buying online is risky when you pay for something more than a few hundred. Things can go wrong.

I get the educational discount ($100-$200 depending on price) + free $100 printer + free iPod touch, which is much more than $150.

 

[GimmeSlack12]

Being a smart buyer does not make you a tax evader. Amazon pays the taxes for you by dropping the price (where they recoup the cost isn't my concern).

If you do not buy from Apple you cannot get your computer replaced, only repaired by Apple. This, is the advantage of buying from Apple.

 

[eclipse310]

incentives

I recently purch a MB pro 13" 2.53 ghz from apple's online store. Sure I could have purch it from amazon and saved a little bit of money...or could i have? I purch the laptop with education pricing which dropped the price $100. The recent updates on the laptops also dropped the price $100 and upgraded the macbook in memory and processing speed. I also got a free ipod touch and $100 off of a printer. I also got apple care for $183. So in total i saved around $526 from normal pricing on apples website. If i were to sell my new ipod touch for say $200 i will have saved $726. Not to mention i was going to purch a mb before the recent update so i would have been charged another $100ish for an upgrade to 4gb of ram. I'd say i made a good choice purch from apples online store. Then again that's just me.

EDIT: I didnt even include the savings from apple care....

 

[ucfgrad93]

Your not committing tax evasion, your creating a stimulus package for yourself.

Well said! Now lets close this thread and all go home!