Overview of Apple's A6 Chip Development and Future Plans

[fithian]

I saw the iPhone 10 Sunday night. In the final forever episode of Weeds, ten years in the future, the characters were using this phone that looked like an iPhone 5, but with transparent front and back, and nothing in-between. It was also about 2mm thick. It used a built in projector to display a working keyboard on a table top. Interesting idea. They were sold out worldwide within 12 seconds of their introduction; 40 million.

 

[layte]

Some people here don't seem to understand just how far behind ARM performance is when compared to what Intel have to offer.

Here is a dual core Atom (roughly equivalent performance to current ARM designs) compared to an ancient (2007) Core2 based Intel Pentium. http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/110?vs=70

Now lets compare it to an outdated Sandy Bridge based i3. http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/110?vs=289 (even if you halved the i3 scores to account for clock speed it's still a curb stomping).

Intel know what ARM are planning and next years Haswell will be a torpedo straight into the side of the good ship ARM. Plus other stuff they have been working on for the past ten years like fully digital WiFi radio circuitry amongst others. http://www.anandtech.com/show/6291/intel-developer-forum-2012-justin-rattner-keynote-live-blog

 

[blackcrayon]

Then consider the fact that the important people marketing the iPhone are much smarter than you. They know how to market extremely well. Hence why the iPhone 4S sells like no tomorrow even tho it was extremely minor upgrade over the iPhone 4

I agree with you somewhat until this part. If you think the 4S was "extremely minor", then you would likely think the subject of this article is minor. The 4S' A5 was a quite significant upgrade from the A4 in the iPhone 4.

 

[nick_elt]

Does HTC manufacture their own chips? Sound like a smart business decision on Apples part.

Htc doesnt manufacture there own chips, thats why there was huge delays on the one s when there was worldwide s4 krait shortage. Also not sure if you mean that Apple manufactures their chips aswell, they dont, they just design them if thats what you meant. Samsung make their own chips tho (they also buy some aswell)

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Some people here don't seem to understand just how far behind ARM performance is when compared to what Intel have to offer.

Here is a dual core Atom (roughly equivalent performance to current ARM designs) compared to an ancient (2007) Core2 based Intel Pentium. http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/110?vs=70

Now lets compare it to an outdated Sandy Bridge based i3. http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/110?vs=289 (even if you halved the i3 scores to account for clock speed it's still a curb stomping).

Intel know what ARM are planning and next years Haswell will be a torpedo straight into the side of the good ship ARM. Plus other stuff they have been working on for the past ten years like fully digital WiFi radio circuitry amongst others. http://www.anandtech.com/show/6291/intel-developer-forum-2012-justin-rattner-keynote-live-blog

Intels main problem in the past has been power usage. ARM has always been more efficient thats why they have been so popular for devices with small batteries ie. Mobile phones. Also if you think the ipad runs hot, go put an i3 in there with no fan.

Edit: the more I read what you are comparing, you really dont have a clue. Compare a15s and haswells, not pc chips and netbook processors.

 

[Glideslope]

Come on...

Let's stop all this back and forth banter over a chip?

We have an Apple event coming in October. New iMacs and a smaller iPad. I wonder what role the A6 might have in this smaller device? Could there be a future for it in an iPad 3 with a smaller battery, thinner case, and single light bar soon?

So many "other" topics out there.

 

[chrmjenkins]

I hope apple starts innovating in packaging technologies as well and explores through silicon vias and system in package to get higher performance at lower electrical cost.

 

[macs4nw]

A quad core A6 in my next iPad Bring it on.
Mark

"According to one source, Steve Jobs initially set an "insanely great" bar for the performance of the new CPU..." I hope other leaders are still pushing that hard at Apple.

Apple's small, strategic acquisitions appear to have paid off big time. From Fingerworks (multi-touch), to Siri, and PA Semi, they have all played a big role in making the iPhone and iOS what they are today.

Good things acommin'.

 

[nick_elt]

Let's stop all this back and forth banter over a chip?

We have an Apple event coming in October. New iMacs and a smaller iPad. I wonder what role the A6 might have in this smaller device? Could there be a future for it in an iPad 3 with a smaller battery, thinner case, and single light bar soon?

So many "other" topics out there.

Isnt this what a chat forum is about?

 

[dampfnudel]

in smart phone market, they are getting there ...

in terms of revenue (dollar) they are already.

if you want to close your eyes, please go ahead.

Getting there...second place? Already there.

 

[i.mac]

Getting there...second place? Already there.

With 25 billion profits, who cares?

 

[G51989]

With 25 billion profits, who cares?

Unless your an investor or work for Apple.

No one.

 

[cvaldes]

With 25 billion profits, who cares?

Actually, $25B in profits does not reflect anything about a company's debt. Or cash position.

That's why wise investors look at 20+ financial metrics and read long SEC filings.

 

[BTW]

Nice that they are putting their money to good use. The A6 in the iPhone 5 has been noted to outperform the Galaxy S3's CPU/GPU.

If I were a betting man, I'd say the A7 will be 64-bit and will be the processor Apple will use to replace Intel in their Mac line-up. That will be a slow transition until people can do anything in iOS that they could previously do on OSX.

 

[SockRolid]

Intel hears this and says " Your Macs are a drop in the bucket. We don't care."

I see your point. But the real damage has already been done. iPhone runs ARM, iPad runs ARM. And all of the serious iPhone and iPad wannabes also run ARM. You know, the drop in the bucket iPhone and iPad clones.

Post-PC = No Intel.

... they could run windows on their Macs via bootcamp or parralles (sic)

Oops. Didn't Ballmer send you the memo? No?
Microsoft is going to port Windows 8 to ARM chips.

No, seriously, they are. You heard it here first.
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I think Intel's Haswell and subsequent CPU will put an end to this type of talk. I'm in no hurry to move away from Intel processors for desktop/notebook and in turn ARM for mobile devices.

Neither am I. But it doesn't really matter what you or I are in a hurry to do or not do. Does it?

Intel has lost the battle for mobile. The Post-PC era has begun without them, and they may never catch up. Of course, they'll always be able to fall back on corporate IT, who are locked into Microsoft's forced upgrades. Intel and Microsoft will squeeze blood out of the Enterprise stone.

Corporate customers will buy brand new Windows 8 PCs, wipe them, and re-image them with XP. Just like they did with Vista and Windows 7 machines. Intel won't care because they'll be selling millions of x86 CPUs. Microsoft won't care because they'll still be selling Windows 8 licenses. And consumers won't care because they'll all be using iPads.

 

[G51989]

I see your point. But the real damage has already been done. iPhone runs ARM, iPad runs ARM. And all of the serious iPhone and iPad wannabes also run ARM. You know, the drop in the bucket iPhone and iPad clones.

Post-PC = No Intel.

Thing is, the tablet market, I think will jump rapidly to X86 with Windows 8. Just Imo.

And, money wise? Intel can sell Laptop and desktop chips for a MUCH higher price than mobile chips, much more money,

Post-PC = No Intel.

Well, I like useful computers, with real performance. So, I'll keep my PC ( as well the 250+ million that will most likely be sold next year )

Oops. Didn't Ballmer send you the memo? No?
OK, here's the scoop: Microsoft is going to port Windows 8 to ARM chips.

No, seriously, they are. You heard it here first.

Yes, new Windows 8 Apps will run on Dumpster ARM ( what a terrible idea, the performance is horrible, don't get me wrong. My phones all run it, I just think Intel can do better than ANY of the ARM makers can do ). However, they wont run all the X86 Programs, which sorta matter to people.

 

[gnasher729]

Thing is, the tablet market, I think will jump rapidly to X86 with Windows 8. Just Imo.

Exactly. In your opinion.

On the other hand, anyone but the most hardcore Windows fans will stay with the iPad. Outside the enterprise, why would you want to pay substantially more money for a device that can run badly adapted desktop software? And in the enterprise, companies can give their users access to all their apps on an iPad anyway. Could do so for ages.

 

[layte]

Intels main problem in the past has been power usage. ARM has always been more efficient thats why they have been so popular for devices with small batteries ie. Mobile phones. Also if you think the ipad runs hot, go put an i3 in there with no fan.

Edit: the more I read what you are comparing, you really dont have a clue. Compare a15s and haswells, not pc chips and netbook processors.

The comment was more aimed at the posters who seem to think that ARM have a chance of competing with Intel outside of ultra portable device performance. How far do you really think Intel is away from managing to get a Core I3/5 class chip in a tablet/phone if they thought it was necessary? They have an immense process advantage over everyone, while the competition is messing about trying to get volume 28/32nm parts out of the door, Intel are shipping millions of 22nm parts and are hard at work at the next process shrink.

Also nobody really knows how ARM parts will scale in devices with much larger power envelopes (laptops, desktops for example). Intel thought they could keep increasing performance with clock speed alone with Netburst, look how that worked out for them.

The more vocal and fanatical Apple fans here seem to think this battle is already over, that is a very shot sighted viewpoint to take when you are talking about a company like Intel (then again given the tiresome dismissive view of anything without an Apple logo here, that's to be expected). If you read my last link, and some of the other articles from the latest IDF you will see just what Intel have been working on and how seriously they are taking the challenge.

 

[elistan]

This is kinda bad news for those on the S cycle. Seems like even the speed upgrade is switching over to the main upgrade path. I think the S iPhones are going to become a lot less desirable now.

The 5 is a nice speed bump over the 4S, but it's actually a smaller bump compared to when they went from 4 to 4S.

From AnandTech's SunSpider scores:
3gs - 14029
4 - 10557 - 1.3x improvement
4s - 2250 - 4.7x improvement
5 - 914.7 - 2.5x improvement

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/12

Now, this doesn't say anything about what next year's 5S might look like, but as somebody on the S cycle, I'm not worried at all.

 

[mjtomlin]

The eighth iPhone will be called iPhone 6? Annoying.

People that can't tell the difference between model numbers and build (generation) numbers are annoying.

Why aren't you bitching about the A6? Should it actually be the A4?

A4 -> A1
A5 -> A2
A5X -> A3
A6 -> A4

Right?

They are LABELS - nothing more. Get over it!

 

[mjtomlin]

Apple completely designed their own CPU.....but the iPhone 5 isn't innovative

It could be running on batteries made from Helium-3 mined from the moon, and it wouldn't be "innovative" in some people's minds.

 

[fertilized-egg]

The 5 is a nice speed bump over the 4S, but it's actually a smaller bump compared to when they went from 4 to 4S.

Those figures are based on different iOS versions. Sunspider is influenced greatly by the Javascript engine and thus shouldn't really be used against other platforms using different browsers.

Here are the results using iOS 5:

http://davidbcalhoun.com/2011/ios5-sunspider-iphone-4s-vs-iphone-4-vs-iphone-3gs

Test iPhone 4S iPhone 4 iPhone 3GS
Total 2270ms 3483ms 4903ms

iOS 6 is faster still with iPhone 4S completing it in less than 1800ms. Regardless, iPhone 5 looks like arguably the biggest overall leap in iPhone's history. You get a different material, bigger and better screen, a new LTE tech and a big performance boost. The only thing that wasn't improved significantly is the rear camera.

 

[mjtomlin]

The arm A15 is built mainly for use in servers. Apple took the A15 "base" and redesigned the chip to their specific goals (power, efficiency etc.)

Acually, no one really knows. Apple could have completely redesigned the chip from the ground up... As long as it conforms to the ARMv7 ISA, then it is an ARM-compatible core.

This is where P.A. Semi's know-how comes in. They completely designed their own core that was based off the Power ISA (PowerPC compatible).

Throw Intrinsity in the mix who were very familiar with ARM's designs - Hummingbird core used in the A4 and Samsung's Exynos 3 - and you have an extremely competent design team.

 

[fertilized-egg]

The more vocal and fanatical Apple fans here seem to think this battle is already over, that is a very shot sighted viewpoint to take when you are talking about a company like Intel (then again given the tiresome dismissive view of anything without an Apple logo here, that's to be expected).

It's not really Apple vs. Intel but ARM vs Intel. Intel has been promising great things from their low powered chips and time and time again, Intel has failed to deliver. Intel hasn't had many design wins even in Android or any other platform. (Remember this?)

Obviously one cannot never discount Intel's prowess in chip making but at the same time the giant is fighting an uphill battle, especially given that the two largest makers of the smartphones probably won't switch to Intel anytime soon. On top of that everyone's getting cozy with optimizing things for ARM first. To make it more difficult, they'll have to compete on price and graphic performance too, neither of which hasn't been Intel's strength. (on the second thought, they could easily compete on graphics by implementing a better IP from PowerVR but that'll mean even more pressure on pricing)

 

[elistan]

Those figures are based on different iOS versions. Sunspider is influenced greatly by the Javascript engine and thus shouldn't really be used against other platforms using different browsers.

Good point. In fact, turns out AnandTech is comparing the iPhone 4S on iOS 5 to the iPhone 5 on iOS 6. So we can't quite declare the iPhone 5 as 2.5 times faster just yet.

Here is AnandTech's 3GS, 4, 4S comparison:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4971/apple-iphone-4s-review-att-verizon/4

Note the 2250 score for the 4S running iOS 5, which is the same score as the 4S in the iPhone 5 chart.

I wouldn't be suprised if the speed bump from the 4S to the 5 is the same 1.5x improvement as previous new iPhones. We'll just have to wait and see what a 4S scores when loaded with iOS 6. Hopefully this evening we'll have new numbers!

 

[iScott428]

So you want a slower macbook that isnt compatible with anything?

I am more interested in the battery life vs performance, obviously I do not expect them to release one to the public but there was a report a while back saying that apple tested one of their A series chips in a MBA and was very impressed by the results. So based on the all the improvements to the SoC I just wonder...

If all you want to do it access Safari, Pages, Keynote, Numbers, and play music, an A6 should provide plenty of power maybe running on iOS and not OSX. 11" MBA would last for a couple days, of straight use, I imagine.