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Discussion in 'Mac and PC Games' started by cycledance, Oct 28, 2015.
Hehe nice one. But sometimes it's like 'Elvis has left the building' case. Or not. We'll see.
This is Blizzard - I bet they have the resources for a small team to have kept macOS development on life support until this announcement.
I surely hope so.
Well, in case of blizzard, it is never about resources. It is always about whether they want to do something or not.
Well, the reason they gave for not wanting to was that Apple's hardware was poor.
Everyone can see that their concerns aren't true anymore.
No, the reason they gave was that Apple's "graphics technology" was poor. That doesn't necessarily exclude the hardware, but since Overwatch runs fine on similar hardware under Windows, it's pretty clear they meant Apple's outdated OpenGL and the (at that time) immature Metal.
Yes, I remember and they were right, and not the only ones as well. The point is if they want to bother or not anymore, since the next macOS seems to resolve these issues. Sometimes, timing is very important.
Overwatch is a multiplayer game that has its own community. They'll support it for a while, so it's not too late to port it.
Plus, they already know how to use Metal.
Except that Metal implementation in Heroes of the Storm and Starcraft 2 causes HORRIBLE stuttering on my friends mid 2012 MBP, to the degree that the game is absolutely unplayable. So I would there is a lot of improvement and learning on Blizzard side .
Or it could just be the fact that 2012 MBP's have a known issue with graphics (Apple even extended the care for these devices). What I would guess is that the entire graphics rendering system (OpenGL, AMD hardware, Metal, etc.) can handle what Blizzard would throw at it...
The ball is squarely in Blizzards court at the moment.
It does not happen on OpenGL 2.1... It has absolutely nothing to do with GPUs in MacBook Pros. Only when you change API you get stuttering.
Mid 2012 MBP has GT650M from Nvidia.
I had the 2012 MBP, I know what was in it. It has hardware level issues in the graphics processor, that is why Apple extended the warranty on it.
Is it possible for one API to be effected and the other to not be effected? Yes, depending on what the problem is and how the API makes calls and uses resources.
This is not Blizzard getting it wrong, but an issue with hardware.
Now, are we done here?
This computer has 5 years, never had an issue with Graphic Card, and was used heavily for 4 of those years. Video Editing on GPU, and Gaming, every day.
No, this is not hardware issue, if Software implementation is the cause for the stuttering of the graphics. It is irrational to believe it is hardware issue.
There's a reason why the Metal support in these games is labeled "beta".
So you're telling me that two pieces of software that do similar things things two different ways interacting with hardware that has KNOWN problems will behave the same way on it?
Tell me again about irrational....
How many times have I seen one OS function flawlessly while one is crippled on the same flawed hardware?
How many times have I seen one app work flawlessly while another is cripppled, on the same flawed hardware?
Really, who's being irrational?
Isn't the bolded part exactly describing the problem with software...?
Yes it is irrational, if the cause of the problem is in the software. Not only Metal implementation creates stuttering, that creates game unplayable, but also OpenGL 4.1 implementation also makes Heroes of the Storm unplayable, because of ginormous stuttering. It has nothing to do with hardware, especially when reversing changes completely eradicates the stuttering and results in perfectly smooth gameplay.
Yes, Metal changes a bit in the execution of the pipeline. But not to the degree you are explaining. It is irrational to believe that software can cause hardware problems, or expose them. Want to know why? Stuttering is problem with software scheduling. Not hardware. I suggest reading more analysis of game reviews on this matter of stuttering.
GPU hardware issues don't cause frame rate issues. They cause image corruption.
And a hardware issue would affect more than one game.
No stuttering with Starcraft 2 here using Metal, so it's not necessarily something that Blizzard did wrong. It's more likely something on Apple's side.
...or nVidia's side. It seems their drivers have more issues with Metal than AMD's these days. That's understandable as AMD is now much closer to Apple.
Does nVidia make Metal drivers? I suspect that's Apple.
Only the GPU vendors can make efficient drivers. Marksatt here confirmed that Apple only defines the Metal specs, leaving the implementation (drivers) to the GPU vendors. This applies to web drivers as well as default system drivers.
Well, If I use Nvidia drivers, instead of Apple drivers, there are happening artifacts while using... Intel, Integrated GPU in Hearthstone. The stuttering with Nvidia drivers happens regardless of API used in Heroes of the Storm. Software behavior in Apple is very spooky...
When I switch back to Apple drivers - problems are gone.
I'm impressed Apple managed to get nVidia to write Metal drivers, then, considering nVidia doesn't get anything out of it. Unless they had a contract where they're required to write drivers for X number of years or something.
nVidia enven provides web drivers for GPUs that were never sold with Macs. I don't think it's part of their contract with Apple and I have no idea why they do that. Perhaps some chief engineer in their driver division just likes Macs and has an old Mac Pro. Or maybe they estimated that sales to Mac Pro owners & Hackintoshers make this profitable.
Nvidia's web drivers are the only way I could run my GTX 1070, and it was just a sub-par experience on the Mac. It is not out of the question or even a surprise that Nvidia on Mac has issues with modern stuff. That's been the way of things going back to the GeForce 3 and the Classic Mac OS. It has always been rough for Nvidia to get good performance and stable drivers. Not to mention they hate OpenCL.
BTW the 1070 runs the Metal beta in StarCraft II like garbage. Tons of artifacting to the point of being unplayable. On the built-in Iris 550, it's fine. Better yet, I don't need the eGPU to run the game because the Metal renderer can keep me going at 1600x900 at well over 100fps with the default "medium" settings. If you're having issues with something with Nvidia graphics, it's probably the Nvidia graphics. That's totally upside-down from how Windows is, btw.
I think Overwatch will come to the Mac, but it won't be right away. It probably won't even be right when High Sierra comes out. But by Christmas time I expect something.
Don't forget that if Nvidia hopes to get Polaris or the upcoming Volta graphics architecture into any upcoming Macs, they need to work on drivers.