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'Palm Pre' Smartphone Announced: WebOS, Wireless Charging, App Store

a rebuttal...

Digital Skunk said:
Oh, you mean the iPhone..... :D

Because the idea of an App store for mobile phones and other devices was done by Palm and Windows Mobile YEARS ago.

Same thing with the full touch screen display and gestures.

So, you're right, the iPhone does look like a Chinese rip off of the Pre doesn't it?
Click to expand...

i didn't see any patents for gestures by palm or multi-touch gestures (which Fingerworks owned a lot of the patents for) which is the main part of the argument between apple and palm. by the way a lot of those patents were for displays that were not capacitive which can be the difference of night and day in patents.

you can surely say that there is a few things that apple seems to have taken from palm patents but it seems most of those patents dates back to 1992. i am not sure if the lifespan on a technological patent is less than compared to others but it's ridiculous for you to say that the iphone is a rip off of a device that hasn't even come out yet.

you also have to wonder how many things were used by palm from the newton which apple had patents over considering palm bought over apple employees who worked on the newton then also.
 
str1f3 said:
i didn't see any patents for gestures by palm or multi-touch gestures (which Fingerworks owned a lot of the patents for) which is the main part of the argument between apple and palm.
Click to expand...

And I didn't see any patents for gestures by Fingerworks which apply in this case.

by the way a lot of those patents were for displays that were not capacitive which can be the difference of night and day in patents.
Click to expand...

I don't think Fingerworks did displays. Just opaque surfaces.

As far as I see, using the list here, all the Fingerworks' patent applications are specifically for capacitive devices, as their algorithms are about being able to use keyboards as proximity sensors. That way, they can detect whether you're typing on it or using it as a pointer.... even if you rest two hands on it.

Can you point us to the Fingerworks patents you're talking about, which would be useful in an Apple-Palm argument? Thanks!
 
kdarling said:
And I didn't see any patents for gestures by Fingerworks which apply in this case.



I don't think Fingerworks did displays. Just opaque surfaces.

As far as I see, using the list here, all the Fingerworks' patent applications are specifically for capacitive devices, as their algorithms are about being able to use keyboards as proximity sensors. That way, they can detect whether you're typing on it or using it as a pointer.... even if you rest two hands on it.

Can you point us to the Fingerworks patents you're talking about, which would be useful in an Apple-Palm argument? Thanks!
Click to expand...

sorry , was not paying attention to the exact wording (which i should have). i meant to say that fingerworks does have patents for multitouch patents for capacitive devices as was stated in the link. palm (pr) has stated to the media that multitouch, in general, has been around well before the iphone. i was pointing this out because it seemed a part of the early argument that palm was making as well as digital skunk.

the one for mobile capacitive multitouch display gestures is in the "iphone patent".
 
str1f3 said:
... palm (pr) has stated to the media that multitouch, in general, has been around well before the iphone. i was pointing this out because it seemed a part of the early argument that palm was making as well as digital skunk.

the one for mobile capacitive multitouch display gestures is in the "iphone patent".
Click to expand...

Ah, thanks.

Palm's right, of course. Multi-touch in general (and specifically for capacitive devices) predates both Apple and Fingerworks by many years.

As for the "iphone patent", other threads here have clearly pointed out that it is simply a patent on scrolling decisions, not a patent on multitouch.
 
kdarling said:
Ah, thanks.

Palm's right, of course. Multi-touch in general (and specifically for capacitive devices) predates both Apple and Fingerworks by many years.

As for the "iphone patent", other threads here have clearly pointed out that it is simply a patent on scrolling decisions, not a patent on multitouch.
Click to expand...

And what are the citations for your sources, pré tell?
 
Marvin1379 said:
And what are the citations for your sources, pré tell?
Click to expand...

Which part? Multi-touch history? Or the bogus headlines about an "iphone patent" ?

There are long threads around here on the topic of multi-touch patents, and especially on what the so-called "iphone patent' is really about. Check out the following:

Apple Asked Google Not to Use Multi-Touch in Android?
Apple Awarded iPhone and Multi-Touch Patent

Here are a couple of posts specifically detailing the so-called multi-touch patent:
From me, and from Eso.

Or, if you wish, an article from Engadget and a patent lawyer, albeit from far less of an engineering standpoint. Also has pointers to other Palm and Apple patents. Another explanation embedded in this article.

Heck, skip all that and go straight here for a good article denouncing the whole fake brouhaha.

I'm a 55 year old engineer with decades of touch device work experience. None of this is new to me, or others in my field.
 
So I just cracked the glass on my iPhone the other day, so now I'm just waiting for a chance to try out a Pre to see if it's as good as it appears to be. I hope they give a release date at MWC next week and a price so I know how much to save up if I decide to get one!
 
ieko said:
So I just cracked the glass on my iPhone the other day, so now I'm just waiting for a chance to try out a Pre to see if it's as good as it appears to be. I hope they give a release date at MWC next week and a price so I know how much to save up if I decide to get one!
Click to expand...

I know the screen won't crack as easy as your iPhone's. I don't have to have the Pre in my hands to know that.
 
ieko said:
So I just cracked the glass on my iPhone the other day, so now I'm just waiting for a chance to try out a Pre to see if it's as good as it appears to be. I hope they give a release date at MWC next week and a price so I know how much to save up if I decide to get one!
Click to expand...

Most speculation is around June considering Treo Pro is coming really soon.
 
SamIchi said:
Most speculation is around June considering Treo Pro is coming really soon.
Click to expand...

The Palm Pre is on the frontpage of Palm's website, including almost all its country specific homepages, and in some cases with the "coming soon" text. Why they would do this, and release it as late as June is beyond me. More likely, it's a good chance it will arrive in March.
 
As a current and long time Palm user (Treo 755p as my current device), I'm looking forward to seeing what the Pre can offer.

So far, it looks good, but I want to see true Mac syncing with iCal and Address Book without having to purchase (and configure) a 3rd party program.

Bluetooth tethering is a nice addition, although I'd like USB as an option, too.

And since I'm a 6 year Sprint customer, I don't have to ditch my great plan and discounts and move to an AT&T plan that will cost me at least $150 a month more than what I'm paying now just to have an iPhone. Not an iPhone diss, as I use an iPod touch a lot, but I prefer to keep things they way they are and upgrade phones to something that has some cool functionality to it (and cut and paste, too).
 
str1f3 said:
i didn't see any patents for gestures by palm or multi-touch gestures (which Fingerworks owned a lot of the patents for) which is the main part of the argument between apple and palm. by the way a lot of those patents were for displays that were not capacitive which can be the difference of night and day in patents.

you can surely say that there is a few things that apple seems to have taken from palm patents but it seems most of those patents dates back to 1992. i am not sure if the lifespan on a technological patent is less than compared to others but it's ridiculous for you to say that the iphone is a rip off of a device that hasn't even come out yet.

you also have to wonder how many things were used by palm from the newton which apple had patents over considering palm bought over apple employees who worked on the newton then also.
Click to expand...

http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/apple-vs-palm-the-in-depth-analysis/

This is also a very nice breakdown of what is actually going on in that realm of debate between Apple and Palm.

Since Palm has been in the touch screen phone business longer, I have a feeling that their patents will hold up. Besides, Apple has copied more from Palm when making the UI of the iPhone than any other company.
 
It also turns out that Fingerworks' patents have two big problems.

1) Much of the work was done at the University of Delaware, and the patents could easily belong to them instead.

2) Fingerworks' inventors published papers quoting much earlier inventors, but left those references out of the list of prior art, in their patent applications.
 
I know websites like to think they know all about the patent issues between apple and palm its pointless speculating either way.

This will be won or lost in the courts.

Saying things like Fingerworks patents were all done at a university or whatever is questionable.

Patent examiners aren't stupid they will know all the issues and they just don't give patents away.

They know more about it than me or you so lets leave it to apples lawyers to argue. This speculation from engadget (as if they know all the issues, yes right) is pointless. The may like to think they are authoritive but don't be taken in-they don't know the half of it.

Picture this
The Judge "hey guys I did a google search and found this on engadget so case dismissed"- I don't think so.
 
the idea of wireless charging.... a really cool idea. it'd be nice if all phones had that.
Hopefully the magnetics dont effect data devices near it.
 
Hopefully a bit of good competition will get Apple to get some of those missing features we have been asking for.

MMS would allow me to ditch my work handset as we send and receive loads of voice texts.

It's cool !
 
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