Palm Pre to Sync with iTunes on Macs?

[johnqh]

I went back and re-read the original quote, so, unless he changed it I misread it. I thought he was talking about Applications in general not specifically games. He's right in that the Pre SDK does not support 3D right now. They said they are working on it. How long? Who knows.

As for Applications, I haven't used the SDK myself but DataViz made a Microsoft Office document viewer AND EDITOR. Another company wrote a Palm Classic emulator. Both of which are extremely complex applications.

First, some companies can get preference treatment, so they don't need to be constrained by the SDK.

Second, a complex app can still be written with a very high level SDK, but a simple app may require deeper access to the OS. Productability apps (like Office doc editor), however complex, only need the access to the file. The display can be handled by HTML/Javascript.

However, let's take a simplest app from iPhone - Sonic Lighter, or iBeer. They cannot be done with HTML/Javascript.

Emulator requires direct access to the OS. There is no way to do with at the HTML level. The company got Palm' blessing and is running directly on the OS. Palm probably paid them to do it.

As the other person said, the WebOS SDK is like Dashboard SDK on iPhone, very limited.

Android SDK is better than WebOS SDK. You can do way more with Java than HTML. Then, iPhone SDK (and Windows Mobile) are way more powerful than Java.

 

[Marx55]

What Palm should do is to release a new version of Palm Desktop for Mac, which has not been touched since 2005.

 

[zelet]

First, some companies can get preference treatment, so they don't need to be constrained by the SDK.

Second, a complex app can still be written with a very high level SDK, but a simple app may require deeper access to the OS. Productability apps (like Office doc editor), however complex, only need the access to the file. The display can be handled by HTML/Javascript.

However, let's take a simplest app from iPhone - Sonic Lighter, or iBeer. They cannot be done with HTML/Javascript.

Emulator requires direct access to the OS. There is no way to do with at the HTML level. The company got Palm' blessing and is running directly on the OS. Palm probably paid them to do it.

As the other person said, the WebOS SDK is like Dashboard SDK on iPhone, very limited.

Android SDK is better than WebOS SDK. You can do way more with Java than HTML. Then, iPhone SDK (and Windows Mobile) are way more powerful than Java.

I understand what you are saying but the SDK provide hooks into the operating system. I think that is where we are disagreeing. It isn't just HTML/JavaScript etc.

If you are interested in the SDK you can go to SafariBooks online: http://my.safaribooksonline.com/9780596802097

Palm's CTO is writing a book for programming in the Mojo framework.

 

[shakenmartini]

I went back and re-read the original quote, so, unless he changed it I misread it. I thought he was talking about Applications in general not specifically games. He's right in that the Pre SDK does not support 3D right now. They said they are working on it. How long? Who knows.

As for Applications, I haven't used the SDK myself but DataViz made a Microsoft Office document viewer AND EDITOR. Another company wrote a Palm Classic emulator. Both of which are extremely complex applications.

Nope, the emulator was written with special access to the WebOS. It doesn't go through the public API's.

IMHO, this was a dumb move by Palm. If their SDK is so great, they should have broken backward compatibility to move the platform forward. Instead, many of these old Palm apps will never get ported to be native Pre apps.

Writing a document editor is wicked easy for either PalmOS, WebOS or iPhone, that is why there are at least 10 different iPhone apps that can view and/or edit word and other office documents. You are not limited by the OS in writing the application for either platform, you are limited by your knowledge of the Office document format itself.

 

[slapppy]

What Palm should do is to release a new version of Palm Desktop for Mac, which has not been touched since 2005.

No. That POS is what drove so many Mac users away from Palm. If your comment about "since 2005" is true, then screw Palm. If they really cared about their Mac customers, that POS application should have been updated properly and reliably for Mac users.

 

[*LTD*]

All in all it won't make a huge difference anyway, and on the upside it'll be a convenience for Pre users.

Besides, Apple has the option of going either way on this.

 

[nagromme]

I think there is a lot of empirical evidence to support, but I'll just go with a couple of main points:

There are a lot of mp3 players out there, but only a few are listed on that link. The players listed on that link were primarily developed pre-iPod era, when Apple had an interest in having iTunes operate with such devices.

Now that iTunes is the market leader, you would think that everyone and their mother would want their mp3 player to work with iTunes, but yet only a handful are. Blackberries have to rely on a helper program to sync with iTunes, for instance.

It seems that Apple no longer actively adds to the list of devices iTunes knows specifically and by name, but my friend's player is newer than those listed, and it does still sync. So a Pre doing the same would be no surprise to me.

Syncing email account setup, photo albums, Web bookmarks, etc. would be more interesting to hear about (and those details may emerge) but this article mentions only music.

 

[johnqh]

I understand what you are saying but the SDK provide hooks into the operating system. I think that is where we are disagreeing. It isn't just HTML/JavaScript etc.

It can only have hooks which require simple parameters, like phone call, maybe a "mailto" etc.

It cannot have hooks to 3D, or memory buffer.

Don't get me wrong. Palm will eventually provide an SDK which has much deeper access to the OS (just like Apple's iPhone SDK, comparing to the original WebApp SDK).

Just don't expect much based on WebOS.

You don't have to believe me. In three months, we will know.

 

[knightlie]

Good for palm. All you thinking that apple will shut this down are blowing smoke out your asses.

+1. I just dusted off my old Creative DAP Jukebox and it appears in iTunes with no problems. Why would Apple do anything to prevent this? The idea of them going to court over it is laughable.

 

[iSee]

Apple allows third parties access to iTunes.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2172?viewlocale=en_US

I don't see any indication that Palm has done anything that Apple would be concerned about by hooking into iTunes.

Hey, THIS IS A REALLY GOOD POINT!

Kind of makes this whole thread uninteresting... "Palm Pre: It's Going to do What Many Have Been Doing for Years!"

 

[bearbear]

I think the OS X user experience would trump any trivial competitive advantages the iPhone and iPods have such as syncing with iTunes. If I am a mac user, I think its reasonable that whatever device I decide to use should at least be able to sync with iTunes if I choose.

 

[casik]

I can't wait till people buy it and sync it with iTunes just in time for Apple to come out with an update to break the sync... then you have a fun war on your hands.

 

[statik13]

Before you make the decision to get that Pre, consider the following:

1. Can’t surf net or email while on phone.
2. No visual voicemail.
3. Can’t download from Amazon store over 3G. Sprint will only allow over wifi.
4. No onscreen typing ability. If you want to type a web address, for example, in landscape mode, you have to rotate the phone to type on the keyboard. I know- somebody will say a developer will develop an app- but it does not exist yet.
5. Smaller screen than iPhone.
6. Only 8 gig memory, which, after system software, leaves just over 7 gigs. Heck, a modest music collection will consume most of that. Pitiful in the current smartphone era when new iPhone rumored to go to 16 and 32.
7. Small, cramped keyboard.
8. Can’t use internationally.

There are some positives for the Pre:
1. Multitasking.
2. Hard keyboard (albeit with problems noted above).
3. Sprint 3G network larger than AT&T (but could change).

You missed a few.

4. Alarms that actually work. (including a snooze button)
5. PDA functionality is actually a priority!
6. Notifications for any app.
7. Synergy. Syncing to the cloud.
8. Replaceable battery
9. Running of 1000s of existing palm apps.
10. *hopefully* a much less closed ecosystem.

 

[slapppy]

It can't do games (right now) but it can do very powerful things... they already have a Palm Classic emulator ready for launch that has been demoed. Are you really trying to tell me it's a limited SDK if you can write an emulator?

No, your putting words in my post. Second, I remember those Palm "classic" games and apps.. Not something to brag about at this day and age.

 

[BaldiMac]

I understand what you are saying but the SDK provide hooks into the operating system. I think that is where we are disagreeing. It isn't just HTML/JavaScript etc.

The same thing is true of the Dashboard SDK.

 

[ArtursBoy]

Perhaps Palm licensed the APIs necessary from Apple to make this happen. In the tech world you always see competing tech companies actually working together.

Apple should be careful pursuing this in the courts if they are so inclined, they could be stuck with an anti-trust case on their hands. Apple dominates the billion dollar industry that is online music and if they aren't playing nice with their software some legal courts might frown on that. Just look at how much nonsense Microsoft got buried in over a web browser.

Also financially Apple would be stupid to try to block WebOS users from accessing iTunes. This OS will sell millions of phones, I'm sure Apple wouldn't mind them plugging in their phones and buying some music.

Pretty much agree.

 

[Peace]

So a new huge server farm in N.C. combined with the Pre syncing with iTunes makes me believe Apple won't do anything about this and may be expecting Pre users to jump on the iTunes bandwagon which in turn may act as a catalyst to new hardware purchases.

I do not believe the Pre will take away any sales from the new iPhone.

Synergy at work.

 

[hbg]

You missed a few.

4. Alarms that actually work. (including a snooze button)
5. PDA functionality is actually a priority!
6. Notifications for any app.
7. Synergy. Syncing to the cloud.
8. Replaceable battery
9. Running of 1000s of existing palm apps.
10. *hopefully* a much less closed ecosystem.

Alarms are not working on the Pre according to posts. I can see your point on the other items, but they're not important for me specifically (although for others they may). I use one exchange account, not multiple gmail, yahoo, twitter and facebook accounts, so Synergy is irrelevant for me. As to the battery, I have had mine a year with zero problems.

 

[longofest]

I know you are not directly trashing the Pre, but people have to remember that the Pre was developed by some of the very same minds that helped develop some of the products we love, the iPod. Since the iPhone has been in development for years, it is likely these people helped develop the iPhone too. Just because they now work for a different company doesn't mean they are now producing garbage.

Not at all! The pre looks like the best iPhone competitor yet, especially since it has multitouch. It does have it's shortcomings, but so does the iPhone (were waiting for a 3.0 OS for copy/paste?)

 

[yg17]

If AT&T ever gets the Pre, I may consider getting it, especially if it syncs with iTunes.

 

[DougB541]

Not at all! The pre looks like the best iPhone competitor yet, especially since it has multitouch. It does have it's shortcomings, but so does the iPhone (were waiting for a 3.0 OS for copy/paste?)

Amen.

iPhone users should be happy there is a phoen that gives ACTUAL competition to what people like in the iPhone (not that I said what people like as both the Pre and iPhone are far from the most feature packed phones out).

But the UI and ease of use seem to be right up there with the iPhone.


It has its shortcomings like any phones but depending on what you need it could not matter.

For instance i don't buy music off of Amazon (or iTunes) so not being able to download a song off of 3G isn't a concern of mine (though weird as my current phone does it off of the Sprint music store...which leads me to believe Amazon may be the reason why its not happening).

I'll hopefully be picking my Pre up on August 1st when i'm up for my discount. Can't wait.

 

[DougB541]

Probably the best description would be.
"Any data access stops during voice calls." or "Cannot use data and voice concurrently"

The hardware design is also clunky and breaks any type of one piece smooth slab look that Apple has pioneered. Giving us that futuristic look of scifi movies today with real devices. The sliding mechanism eventually gets clunky and loose after a few months. Thats why I love how there is no mechanical gimmicky pieces on the iPhone/Touch.

So if it was a solid slab everyone could start saying "its copying the iPhone?"

I think it looks great personally. Time will tell if the sliding function goes bad...but assuming it does is rather ignorant. I really am not sure how you think its "clunky."

But to each their own...

 

[AtlasBoy]

Apple will allow the iTunes access so they can sell music to Pre owners

While They

File a lawsuit for infringement on the multi touch intellectual property and put Palm / Pre out of business for good.

So,

Pre opens new iTunes channel ---> that makes $$$ for Apple -----> that funds a lawsuit ----> that brings Palm down.

No Seriously, I don't know if Palm violated Apples IP or not, but IF Apples thinks they did, they could keep Palm tied up in court for a very long time (read: blow through a ton of cash). Palm does not have the war chest that Apple has, so it could be hard for Palm to defend itself.

 

[charlituna]

Apple should be careful pursuing this in the courts if they are so inclined,

i would think that if they were so inclined they would have done it years ago when the third party software was coming out.

it sounds to me like Palm hasn't touched anything in itunes they just made the PalmOS in a way that it sends the right device info in the right language to iTunes.

also, all they have mentioned is music. no video, no app store apps etc. so this means that there is the potential for some added itunes store sales (including some of the supposedly higher priced new tunes with no DRM) but the Pre would not be a total replacement for all the functions of an ipod/phone.

now, on the update issue. I don't know that Apple would active try to break whatever Palm did but they might not be careful to make sure any updates were still Palm friendly 'out of the box'. that would be for Palm to update their own software if that is what they are doing (and I suspect so). if they are hacking itunes and making a palm friendly version they are pulling a Psystar and Tim Cook is right to slam them, just as he would be right if those ex Apple employees violated any agreements and copied anything from the iphone to make the Pre.

is to force people wanting to connect to the iTMS to buy an iPhone.

wait so I can't buy things and play them on my nano or my computer anymore. that is stupid.

It is perfectly legal to only allow apple hardware to work with apple software (see: OS X).

bad logic. what applies in the computer realm isn't equal to other realms.

in the computer realm, it is legit for Apple to try hardware and software because they lack any thing close to market power.

but a computer and a digital music player are NOT the same thing. so it is plausible that disallowing the plug ins, companies to make 'native' working software in their devices and so on could open Apple up to anti-trust suits because the ipod line has a significant market share.

and that's why I think Apple hasn't made that move. not in regards to non DRM materials and using itunes as a basic syncing interface. if someone were to hack the DRM that screws with all kinds of licensing agreements with the labels and studios so that's a different kettle.

 

[yg17]

Probably the best description would be.
"Any data access stops during voice calls." or "Cannot use data and voice concurrently"

That's due to a limitation of CDMA/EvDO. All Sprint and Verizon phones have that limitation. A UMTS, or later on, LTE Pre will not have that problem