Palm re-enables iTunes sync

[TheBritishBloke]

Apple has already won a ruling against them, I dont see why Palm are doing this again, they're going to be sued this time..

 

[cjmillsnun]

I've said it before. I'll say it again ... Apple need their own ID chips (maybe they already have them) in their products. When iTunes detects a Palm Pre it should replace all the music with Kenny G. The Palm Pre owners would destroy their own Palms shortly thereafter ...

They already do (Apple have an exclusive ID, this is what Palm have been spoofing), although i think the Kenny G thing is a bit too far. Personally if iTunes detects a Pre, I think it should do nothing, act as if there was nothing connected to it.

 

[pdjudd]

Apple has already won a ruling against them, I dont see why Palm are doing this again, they're going to be sued this time..

Well technically Apple never won anything. They never filed a complaint. Palm complained to the USB-IF, but the USB-IF dismissed the complaint. I don’t recall reading anywhere that Apple made any sort of a defense to the USB-IF in the sense of what you see in a court case.

Apple didn’t win, but they never lost either. In a sense, nothing happened to then on an official level. Its the argument of a tree falling in a woods and nobody was around. Palm made the noise, but the USB-IF put up a forrest and accused Palm of cutting the trees. Apple wasn’t affected - it didn’t get to the stage.

Same difference though - they came out of it just fine on a legal sense.

 

[pdjudd]

It perfectly is the same, because as far as I remember, for Bleem running PS Games you would not need a copy of the PS 'OS' (its highly discussable if the ROM of the PS actually counts as an OS by itself - well different story). Anyhow what i.e. bleem did was making the gamedisk think its talking to a PS, nothing else is doing palm - its latest firmware (i.e. Software) makes iTunes think its talking to an iPod

But emulation is a different concept - it replicated the Playstation OS. There is no OS emulation going on here. iTunes is software. Pre spoofs the Hardware ID’s. Bleem did not emulate or replicate Playstation hardware. OS emualtion is different than spoofing!


Yes and according to wikipedia "Bleem! won in court...[and] Sony lost on all counts".

And just for the record:

"An emulator in computer sciences duplicates (provides an emulation of) the functions of one system using a different system, so that the second system behaves like (and appears to be) the first system. This focus on exact reproduction of external behavior is in contrast to some other forms of computer simulation, which can concern an abstract model of the system being simulated." (Source: Wikipedia)

[/QUOTE]

And I will say this again. Palm is not emulating anything! Bleem! did software OS emulation. iTunes is NOT an OS. They are doing a hardware spoof. Maybe you might have a point if Bleem was trying to make home-brew games for the playstation by cracking the encryption, but Bleem did the reverse.

One of the reasons Bleem won in court was because they did what Compaq did to make IBM compatible systems. They did a clean room write - I don’t think they ever stole any code (at least thats what I got from ). Palm actually took device ID’s that were not their property to use and applied that to their hardware - thats not emulation here.

Not to mention that Palm is not creating their own software like Bleem! did. Bleem effectively bypassed Sony software. However Palm is using Apple’s code. Thats the difference. Palm is using another companies IP without their consent. Bleem didn’t touch Sony’s code on the Playstation so they never infringed on their IP. Palm is infringing on Apple’s IP by using code that Apple owns via an access gateway (USB ID).

The best example would be if I took a security card that has your identity, copied it using convention card-making software, and used it to get access into your workplace. I am using your ID credentials to get into a restricted area. It should come to no surprise that Security is gonna kick me out when they realize that I don’t belong there. Thats all thats going on here. Palm is trying to tell iTunes that it is an Apple device called an iPod when it is not. Palm does not have the right to call themselves anything other than what it is and the USB IF confirmed that.

 

[Fx203]

Seriously, this is getting old...

Both Palm and Apple are acting like a pair of two year olds fighting over the same toy. Palm develop your own software and stop piggybacking off of someone elses work. And Apple, sue Palm for what there doing (which probably is illegal anyway) and figure out a way for the pre to not be recognized in iTunes no matter what the (ex-Apple) Palm employees try to do.

 

[funkdoctor]

You again

Who cares what popular opinion is. I bet these people you've talked to wouldn't let me sample their bank account and give it to the homeless so I can "ensure everyone has a fair and equal opportunity for all to seamlessly have access to their funds", right? Else I expect you to PM me credit card and account numbers.

He is right about one thing, popular opinion is probably "who cares?"
I dont own Apple or Palm, this nonsense doesn't matter to me

 

[pdjudd]

Both Palm and Apple are acting like a pair of two year olds fighting over the same toy. Palm develop your own software and stop piggybacking off of someone elses work. And Apple, sue Palm for what there doing (which probably is illegal anyway) and figure out a way for the pre to not be recognized in iTunes no matter what the (ex-Apple) Palm employees try to do.

It's not that easy for Apple. Not only is upgrading software a time consuming process, but the methodology involves property that Apple does not control - USB. I wonder if Apple has any grounds for a lawsuit to begin with since iTunes itself is not being touched - it's doing what it is intended to do - albeit with the wrong device. THe problem from I can gather is that the fraud is on the device level using USB - a medium that Apple does not have ownership to. Palm is just spoofing an ID code - not a brand name. That code is leased by Apple from the USB IF. My guess the reason that APple hasn't taken it to court is that they worry that the case would be dismissed on a lack of grounds and Palm effectively gets shielded.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Both Palm and Apple are acting like a pair of two year olds fighting over the same toy. Palm develop your own software and stop piggybacking off of someone elses work. And Apple, sue Palm for what there doing (which probably is illegal anyway) and figure out a way for the pre to not be recognized in iTunes no matter what the (ex-Apple) Palm employees try to do.

You say they're both two year olds, but then you side with Apple 100%. There's no point in pretending to be fair and balanced and then show yourself as completely one-sided. Apple is in the wrong here. They're the OS provider who locks people out of the OS whenever it's monetarily convenient for them. That's because they're really just using OS X as a way to monopolize a segment of the hardware market, which explains why they're making money in a recession when everyone that has to fairly compete with one another is losing money.

 

[Speedtoy]

Again, can you show me where this Palm syncing iTunes is negatively affecting Apples stock? Oh right...I won't hold my breath.

Arguments like this..sound like theyre coming from Chinese business groups?

IP..whats IP? We'll steak anything and serve it to you in **** form, screw IP.

Even Apple's own Safari can spoof IE, Firefox etc. Yet when Palm spoofs an Apple client, people complain

Its OK if you dont get it.

But here ya go..

Spoofing what/who you are to infringe on someone else's IP is one thing.

A browser announcing functionality support as to allow code developers (HTML has no IP, if you need that hint as well) to develop gadgetry and interfaces that meet certain browsers features OR inabilities to support certain featuresets.


Makin sense yet?

Itunes connectivity = IP. Apple owns it, Palm does not.
Browser Functionality WRT HTML features = Not owned by anybody.

lol. you can come up with whatever "what if" scenario you want. When he starts losing money as a result of this, please, do let me know. Then, and only then, will he be able to use that (its coming out of my pocket) argument

NOT defeding IP creates huge losses, because you lose the ability call it _your_ IP.

Like I said..the arguments against apple, sound like they come from Chinese interests, where IP has no legal save haven.

Intellectual Property ownership ISNT a difficult concept. Just that it appears like some people still cant grok it.

well sorry to break this to you, but if you are going to take on thievery as a whole, I could recommend tons of places/sites, it might take you a few lifetimes to get your word out though, and I have a sneaking suspicion, palm and itunes aren't the main culprits.

(think torrents,serials,etc)

just admit fanboyism, people, my gawd.

Admit you dont understand IP laws and concepts. "My Gawd"...as you put it.


Nothing fanboyish about fighting for your property rights.

Whilst I continue to believe that it wouldn't actually hurt Apple that much to allow Palm to sync its devices to iTunes (now that the music is all DRM free)

It...is?

Then why isnt my library all DRM free then?

P.S. Show me where this is affecting Apple making new products and I will stand corrected...good luck.

Hey..lets not distract the fact, that you have no idea how IP laws work.

Mkay?


Its about IP, admit it, learn something about it.

Again with the vagueness...

He understands clearly, that strawmen cant fight back..so point to them as a statistic, and put em to work for you.

Not to change one ID or ban one from connecting.

You dont understand how you have to QA any/all software changes of any type, at any level either?


KB isnt alone in his ignorance.


Let us know how your career in enterprise software development goes, k?

I think Palm must have considered such licensing a "a bag of hurt". You know, just what Steve thinks about Blu-ray licensing...

Cept Steve isnt hacking blueray players to cheat Sony out of it's IP.

Apple has every right to block Palm's efforts and protect their iTunes baby. They can continue to release patches and palm will likely to continue to spoof.

That being said, I fail to comprehend why you guys are so passionate about a matter that has such little impact on you. The only people who should really be concerned are Pre owners and apple legal. The lengthy explanations of animosity are a stretch at best.

Every time a Pre syncs I don't lose functionality on my iPod. This isn't world hunger or disease.

You should care, a lot.

How IP works, is very important to most, if not ALL private industry, worldwide.


its not an 'apple' issue as much as it is...an IP issue.


Do you understand the importance of IP in technology?


Also..take note that billions in donations from private industry do go towards world hunger and sickness, and all of that cash leads to IP, ultimately. care to argue differently?

Yet you still pass over the point I made one a reason why it is being done. It is just coming up with *blank reason* and turn around and say Palm is being cheap. I point out a very valid reason for what palm is doing and that is the same response I get OVER AND OVER again.

BTW Microsoft can sync with WMP the main media device on windows Media player which plays nice with others.

WMP says your hardware needs to do *blank* and works with window Media player. No other software required. Apple approach is "here is a file that holds the information please write some extra crap for the user to install on the computer to sync with the libary" I personally like MS approach. It just saying here is the software that does it. Here are the requirements for it to work with the hardware and then they will not provide any more support past that.

Like I said before in the PR game here. Palm is winning. Apple is looking like nothing more than a big bully picking on the little guy.

Palm is winning in the same manner that Chinese laws protect the theft of IP from western corporations.

Not sure how Palm is winning, and WHO cares that theyre winning. Care to elaborate? Would the Palm Pre sales figures be a place to start?

 

[Mycatisbigfoot]

how sad, that little palm phone thinks its an ipod, boo hoo,

I think palm should stop doing this and write there own dam porgram, they are to lazy,