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Palm Reports Apple to USB Compliance Organization Over iTunes Syncing Issues

*LTD* said:
Palm is a publicly traded company, and they're hacking someone else's software.

Very professional.
Click to expand...

They didn't hack any iTunes software, Palm made their device 'compatible' with iTunes.

That does not involve hacking any iTunes code.
 
Screw Palm. Rubinstein took Apple swag to them and now he's being handed his ass on a silver tray.Funny how Palm is all over Apple when they should be all over the pc. Isn't the pc like 97% of the market so why sweat Apple. And shouldn't MS have like the baddest damn movie and music service since they control the pc through their OS? Hello.
I just knew that ****er that ran the investment outfit that seeded Palm all that money was in it for the short haul.
This just goes to show that Apple is the world OS leader and their software/hardware integration is world renown. Even the EU was busting their balls and wanting them to open itunes to the competition. Still, what's up with MS?
Happily, this just makes those MS I'm a pc commercials irrelevant.
Everyone is really a Mac. Period.
 
The more I think about this case the more I realize that Palm not only has no case but their employees are risking getting sued by Apple for violating their NDA. Think about this-who are the only people that would know how the iPod interfaces and interacts with iTunes on a hardware level ? Apple employees- and several have recently left Apple to go to Palm. They are the only people who would know this technology. No one else knows it. If it was somehow common knowledge, then any device would be able to do so. This whole thing about Apple locking down iTunes to only accept iPods is no different that what Windows Media player does-because as far as I know, only certain devices and sync and interact with WMP.

I said this yesterday when the OS update was issued-we as consumers are the only ones who can lose-Apple will just keep patching and Palm will keep circumventing. Consumers will get annoyed and both companies will lose business.
 
Stella said:
They didn't hack any iTunes software, Palm made their device 'compatible' with iTunes.

That does not involve hacking any iTunes code.
Click to expand...

You people can tap dance as fast as you like, Palm "made their device compatible with iTunes" using a HACK, and all the semantics anyone wants to trot out doesn't change that simple fact.

There were straightforward ways to make the Pre sync with iTunes that other Apple competitors found easy enough to use for their products, and Palm chose to ignore them. Why? Well, you'd have to ask Jon Rubinstein that question, but it sure doesn't seem like a smart, professional move for a company trying to get back on its feet.
 
Amdahl said:
Blocking devices(or allowing certain devices) based on ID is against the spec, same as spoofing IDs. IDs can't be trusted if everyone is running around spoofing everyone else to maintain compatibility. That's the reason for both rules in the USB spec; if everyone follows the first, no one has a reason to violate the 2nd.
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I think you're misinterpreting the intent of the spec. The USB Consortium wants any USB device to be able to talk to another USB device. They are not saying that the software on each device needs to talk to any other USB device.

If Apple was not allowing Palm's device ID from connecting to the USB port, then that would violate the spec. They are trying to ensure USB devices from one manufacturer are not prevented from being accessed from another device. Compatibility between *devices*.

Palm can still use their device ID and write their own syncing solution. Even better, they could write their own music management software. If they made it better than iTunes they could then use that software as a competitive advantage against Apple.
 
czachorski said:
So Apple could just make this go away by doing what so many phone's do - use their own proprietary cable to connect iPods/iPhones to to iTunes.
Click to expand...

Err, no I don't think so. They already do have a proprietary cable, at the phone end, it's the other end you have to think about, that USB bit, the bit which plugs into the computer. The connections on computers are standardized and you can't really get around that.

That's sort of why there is a USB manufacturer and vendor ID which companies signing up agree to respect, which Palm has not done here. However it's kind of up to the USB Compliance Organization to enforce this against Palm, I don't know if Apple would be able to enforce it through such a third party.
 
rols said:
Err, no I don't think so. They already do have a proprietary cable, at the phone end, it's the other end you have to think about, that USB bit, the bit which plugs into the computer. The connections on computers are standardized and you can't really get around that.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The problem with proprietary ports is that you have to have reverse compatibility, the ports have to be available for the boards on all macs, and there has to available on the PC. Getting PC's to adapt to firewire was tough enough which is why they switched to USB.

It's not worth it. And besides, Palm would just hack it.
 
carmenodie said:
Screw Palm. Rubinstein took Apple swag to them and now he's being handed his ass on a silver tray.Funny how Palm is all over Apple when they should be all over the pc. Isn't the pc like 97% of the market so why sweat Apple. And shouldn't MS have like the baddest damn movie and music service since they control the pc through their OS? Hello.
I just knew that ****er that ran the investment outfit that seeded Palm all that money was in it for the short haul.
This just goes to show that Apple is the world OS leader and their software/hardware integration is world renown. Even the EU was busting their balls and wanting them to open itunes to the competition. Still, what's up with MS?
Happily, this just makes those MS I'm a pc commercials irrelevant.
Everyone is really a Mac. Period.
Click to expand...

Oh my. Someone trying to assume the BRlawyer mantle....
 
ZacUSNYR said:
I keep trying to sync my iphone to palmdesktop but it's not working?

I'm going to email Palm for support and see what they say.
Click to expand...

I was going to call Palm support and ask the same question, but Palm charge $14.95 per call for support for the Pre (if you don't go through Sprint), talk about Fail.
 
Why is it that many people are saying Apple are a monopoly, then the only argument against it is that a monopoly has to be completely exclusive.

So that basically means Microsoft is not, and was never a monopoly. So that if they prevented a competitor's product (Safari or iTunes) from working on their software (windows) then it'd be fine with everyone?
 
AidenShaw said:
Oh my. Someone trying to assume the BRlawyer mantle....
Click to expand...

MS IS DEAD. DELL IS DEAD. PALM IS DEAD.

GO APPLE!!!!!

😀

But really though, this article is cracking me up. I didn't quite know what to think of the Apple vs. Psystar case, but this Palm vs. Apple war is seriously funny. 😎
 
LethalWolfe said:
They basically changed the USB ID on the Pre to match that of an iPod.


Lethal
Click to expand...

They also included something akin to an emulation mode where the Pre presents itself with the same file system as an iPod even though it doesn't. Only the USB ID problem seems to have any sort of legal issue unless Apple somehow got a patent on the exact layout of the iPod file system (although the file system thing sounds like it could potentially be susceptible to a bug doing some bad stuff to your phone...entirely speculative though since I do not have access to the Pre source code).
 
This is really stupid on Palm's part. USB is open. It's iTunes and Apple's intellectual property that isn't. I hope Palm get's spanked by the USB Implementers Forum.
 
PlatinuM195 said:
Why is it that many people are saying Apple are a monopoly, then the only argument against it is that a monopoly has to be completely exclusive.

So that basically means Microsoft is not, and was never a monopoly. So that if they prevented a competitor's product (Safari or iTunes) from working on their software (windows) then it'd be fine with everyone?
Click to expand...

I realize you're a noob here, but are you serious with this crap?

Ignoring how flawed your analogy is from square one, Apple isn't trying to "prevent" or "block" (as some other deluded people keep saying) a competitor's product from working with iTunes. Ask people with Blackberry or Symbian devices if they are "prevented" or "blocked" from using them with iTunes and then come back and let us know what you find out.
 
yoak said:
One should think that if they were confident enough in their product line Apple wouldn´t care about this.
But they sure do
Click to expand...

Of course iTunes is a FREE application and Apple makes hardly anything from music store sales, so if apple allowed the pre to sync they would be making zero profit from it. If you had helped make iTunes, I'm sure you'd want it to make as much money as possible by iPod sales. Its like a little extra feature for iPod users & them only. This is the whole experience in owning an iPod. if palm don't like it that Apple are trying to prevent them using it well, go make your own program like Blackberry.
 
actripxl said:
You know what I'm backing Palm on this one for a simple reason, I love iTunes but I don't want to have to use an iPod with it. The iPod rocks but I'm an audiophile and would like to get the Sony X series since it seems to sound better from reviews and use it with iTunes.
Click to expand...

okay and can you tell me away how Apple would make money from that since iTunes is a little extra luxury for people who purchased an Apple iPod. Its NOT to be opened up so everyone can get to use it for two reaons

1. Apple would lose money letting 3rd party devices use iTunes

2. If more devices were supported it would sorta become like windows & well people would blame apple for sync issues and then Apple would get a bad image. Thats why Apple control the hardware & software, they have to try much harder than Micro$oft to make people pay attention.
 
Lol.

Im going to gleefully update the next version of iTunes and any after that... why? No Im not a updateholic, Palm just rub my nerves. It goes against my ethics as a programmer. This isnt the world of FOSS people. The is a proprietary system developed by a closed source company. They "modify" (Read up the meaning of hack, there's a dictionary in spotlight) the Pre so iTunes reads it. Even though they could've easily written a damn script or even asked Apple. (Shock Horror)
 
ethana said:
It is my opinion that Palm is illegally accessing iTunes. They spoof an Apple device to get access to iTunes. Although this is a security hole/bug by Apple, that doesn't give Palm the right to do this, just as a security hole in IE doesn't give people the right to silently install something on someone's computer (see Zango vs. FCC).
Click to expand...

OMG, this thread's is a huge Bull ...
How do you compare when someone maliciously installs something unwanted (IE hole), and when I want to use MY OWN! copy of iTunes, the way I WANT it?

ethana said:
Just because you feel interoperability is the way things SHOULD be, doesn't mean you should go about getting to that in the wrong way.
Click to expand...

Then what is the right way?
Palm didn't violate anything in the beginning, it was Apple, who was luring me into 8.2.1 boasting improvements & patches, when in fact they were covering THEIR ass, and then forcing me to accept changed EULA on top.

Disclaimer: I own iPhone 2G, planning for 3GS, and largely skipping Pre because lackluster shop experience in Sprint shop, and technically because Pre is "only" 8Gb (which I got in 2G).
But I hate when corps, and especially Apple [try to😎] take me for stupid sheep/ransom.
 
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