Palm Reports Apple to USB Compliance Organization Over iTunes Syncing Issues

[*LTD*]

They didn't hack any iTunes software, Palm made their device 'compatible' with iTunes.

That does not involve hacking any iTunes code.

It's a hack.

Palm's reptuation is headed downhill FAST. And if it really is their intention to use this move as a preulde to a larger legal battle, then they really are stupid, and in the end their customers are the ones who will really lose out.

It's amazing, really. Looking at Psystar, Palm, the latest "Store" ripoffs from Microsoft, the many iPhone knockoffs, etc., it's clear that Apple is writing the entire industry's software and manufacturing the hardware that everyone and their dog is ripping off, and not in a small way, either. And some of them think they can get away with simply taking elements of Apple's designs and services wholesale. Only problem is, it doesn't work like that.

It's sad to see, but except for a few specific exceptions, the rest of the industry is bankrupt when it comes to ideas. Some of these also-rans seem to think that if they don't particularly like whatever aspect of Apple's legal, fully-compliant business model, they can just go ahead and challenge it. That's their right, obviously, no matter how ludicrous, but it's garbage like this that leads Apple to to become even more closed and "secretive." Can't say I blame Apple.

 

[nesado]

RIM are As@#HoL*. I WILL definitely Boycott their products! Write your own media syn for crying out loud!!!!

 

[MikePeterson]

I love it, Palm can do whatever they want because, if Apple sues them for patent infringement they hold enough patents to prevent the manufacture of another iPhone.

 

[r.j.s]

RIM are As@#HoL*. I WILL definitely Boycott their products! Write your own media syn for crying out loud!!!!

Wrong company. RIM ≠ Palm.

 

[dragossh]

It's amazing, really. Looking at Psystar, Palm, the latest "Store" ripoffs from Microsoft, the many iPhone knockoffs, etc., it's clear that Apple is writing the entire industry's software and manufacturing the hardware that everyone and their dog is ripping off, and not in a small way, either. And some of them think they can get away with simply taking elements of Apple's designs and services wholesale. Only problem is, it doesn't work like that.

Good artists copy, great artists steal. Without stealing ideas from competitors the IT industry can’t move forward.

 

[Goona]

I love it, Palm can do whatever they want because, if Apple sues them for patent infringement they hold enough patents to prevent the manufacture of another iPhone.

What are joke, so why aren't they trying now, if they have the guts to do this, why haven't they stopped the iphone from being produced.

 

[rstone3]

Interesting...Palm really seems to be desperately grabbing at straws here. Claiming that by doing something clearly forbidden by the USB standard to "make up" for a possible, alleged infraction by Apple - and then the gaul to report Apple to the authorities! Sort of like vaguely suspecting one's neighbor of not paying enough in taxes (while yourself sitting in a house full of stolen goods) and calling 911.

I think this is the 'last gasp' of a dying company. The Pre is their last hope and appears by all accounts to be going down in flames / CNBC reports 40% return rate and dwindling sales. That would back up prior reports of HUGE issues with production / the need to manually test each unit with a high failure rate in that process. This all may well be aimed at just getting attention (the "any publicity is good publicity" theory) as well. I used to use a Palm daily - they were the best in their day but now are a dinosaur. A perfect example of innovate or wither. Sorry Palm, we'll miss you (a little).

 

[*LTD*]

I love it, Palm can do whatever they want because, if Apple sues them for patent infringement they hold enough patents to prevent the manufacture of another iPhone.

Do you actually believe that??

 

[Stella]

Of course, your entitled to think its a hack.

And you believe Apple never copy anything?

*All* companies copy / gain inspiration from each other.. yes, including Apple.

It's a hack.

Palm's reptuation is headed downhill FAST. And if it really is their intention to use this move as a preulde to a larger legal battle, then they really are stupid, and in the end their customers are the ones who will really lose out.

It's amazing, really. Looking at Psystar, Palm, the latest "Store" ripoffs from Microsoft, the many iPhone knockoffs, etc., it's clear that Apple is writing the entire industry's software and manufacturing the hardware that everyone and their dog is ripping off, and not in a small way, either. And some of them think they can get away with simply taking elements of Apple's designs and services wholesale. Only problem is, it doesn't work like that.

It's sad to see, but except for a few specific exceptions, the rest of the industry is bankrupt when it comes to ideas. Some of these also-rans seem to think that if they don't particularly like whatever aspect of Apple's legal, fully-compliant business model, they can just go ahead and challenge it. That's their right, obviously, no matter how ludicrous, but it's garbage like this that leads Apple to to become even more closed and "secretive." Can't say I blame Apple.

 

[_iCeb0x_]

Indeed. This is starting to go into the same direction as Psystar.
Someone @ Palm must really hold a grunge against Apple for taking this road.

Oh, no! Don't hold some guy from Seattle wearing a black t-shirt with a checkered shirt over it. Not against Apple! We don't need that 90's "alternative" stuff back...

 

[*LTD*]

What are joke, so why aren't they trying now, if they have the guts to do this, why haven't they stopped the iphone from being produced.

Thay can't. Because no patent infringement exists. It was all just bluster that was going on before the Pre's release.

 

[jaw04005]

As much as I like what Rubinstein did for Apple, this all seems a bit too personal.

It's been reported that Rubinstein left Apple because he was being alienated due to the success of the iPhone. Rubinstein managed the iPod division, but was not a key player in iPhone strategy. In fact, the current iPod nano devices that use a modified version of PortalPlayer's operating system are said to be the last product he had influence over.

Rubinstein went from one of the most important members of Apple's executive team to the head of a division that's relatively stable/mature and no longer the top priority of Jobs himself.

So, he left. Jobs didn't even put up a fight for him to stay.

"Then he burned out. Like others on the executive team, he had made a small fortune in Apple stock — $26 million by some accounts — and he didn't need to work anymore. What he wanted to do, he told Jobs at a meeting in the boss's office one September day in 2005, was build a house on the beach in Mexico, drink margaritas with his wife and toast the setting sun. Rubinstein told Jobs he wanted out. "He goes, 'Really?'" Rubinstein thunders, imitating a man in shock. Then he chuckles.

The meeting wasn't acrimonious, and he believed the door was open should he ever want to return. Jobs did not beg him to stay, and they worked out a plan for an orderly transition."

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1902833-2,00.html

A few notable decisions by Rubinstein for Apple:

1. Lead the charge to converge Apple's 15 Mac product lines in 1996 into the matrix of four (one consumer desktop, one consumer notebook, one professional desktop, one professional notebook) by 1999.

2. Responsible for the decision to use USB as the port standard on the original iMac in 1998.

3. Oversaw the engineering feat of the iMac G3.

4. Popularized the "Megahertz Myth" hype used by Apple during the PowerPC era.

5. Discovered the original iPod's hard drive on a routine visit to Toshiba.

 

[D4F]

I might be wrong on this one but I keeps me wondering...
Everybody is complaining at Palm that they should go on and write their own software yet they are paying apple for their OS that was build upon linux...

Anybody could explain?

 

[*LTD*]

Ripping off the competition, violating agreements, engaging in galactically unprofessional behaviour, blatantly hacking someone else's software, and then saying that "everyone does it so who cares" as some glib, blanket excuse . . . is NEVER ok.

Until the company that makes your favourite product does it.

Except that a lot of Pre users on these boards also own a Mac, and dollars-to -donuts they were perfectly ready to defend Apple had MS or anyone else tried to infringe in a similar manner.

But now they'd like to sync their Pres to iTunes, and suddenly, Apple's rights don't count for as much.

 

[_iCeb0x_]

Adding to DavidLeblond's comments below:

How is it a monopoly? Is iTunes the ONLY place you can buy your music? Is iTunes the ONLY media center software for PCs? Does that mean the Zune software should start syncing with the iPhone too? I have a Nintendo Wii, why can't I play my Wii games on my Mac? I guess Nintendo is a monopoly, right?

Why can't I sync my Palm OS device with ActiveSync on Windows?

Why can't I sync my Win Mobile device with Palm Desktop on whatever operating system?

Why can't I use Motorola's software to sync my Palm OS, iPhone or Windows Mobile device?

This behaviour -- vendors developing specific software to support their devices on a given operating system -- has been standard for years. Why only Apple is being blamed for it?

If Apple chooses to expose this functionality over SyncServices (or whatever other API), so 3rd party hardware developers can use iTunes as a syncing software, will it then be considered a standard and other companies would be required to do the same?

 

[Tallest Skil]

*We see little Apple in his sandbox playing with his iTunes*

Palm: Hey, thatsh cool, can I pway?

Apple: No, sowwy. It's mine.

Palm: Pweeese?

Apple: No, you'w have to design youw own.

*Palm takes it from Apple, who takes it back*

Palm: Wha?! I'm tewwing Mommy!

*Palm reports Apple to the USB Compliance Organization*

That's pretty much how I view this.

 

[alexacker]

Hearing how crappy itunes is, I thought people would be happy not using it.

Crappy? If crappy means awesome, then you're completely right. But crappy, like a brown colored-substance, then you're so off-base it's not even funny. You haven't even used iTunes so what gives you permission to comment?!? Go play with your 18 Pre apps with the dorky copycat Pre kids in the sandbox and leave us innovative, awesome kids alone!

Loser.

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

I don't have numbers in front of me here, but isn't Apple a financial goliath compared to Palm? Nokia is a much larger company than Palm, and even then their market cap is only $50B compared to Apple's $140B.

Judging by Apple's actions, this is not something they are too concerned about. If it were a serious infringement, we would be seeing litigation by now. Apple could bury Palm in litigation if it wanted to. It still may.

More than anything, though, it shows how desperately Palm seems to need this syncing ability. It's very sad that a company like Palm needs to ensure interoperability with a proprietary Apple product in order to succeed in the market place.

I think it shows a grudge on the part of Rubenstein. This whole syncing issue is nothing more than an annoyance on Apple's part, it's like a buffalo swatting at a fly with its tail. It's a very unhealthy obsession and also reflects Rubenstein's obsession with the iPod. The iPod business model seems to be fading as sales of the iPhone and iPod Touch cannibalize traditional iPod models. Rubenstein is taking a big chance doing shady things to go after a declining market.

A year from now we'll be hearing of Palm filing for Chapter 11. Don't believe the propaganda of the Pre's success. I have two people in my office who bought Pre's and then returned them for Blackberries. In both cases, it had to do with the form factor of the phone and the lack of basic features and operating system annoyances. By the time these issues are corrected, the Pre will already have a bad reputation. Sure, the iPhone had its share of growing pains, but at that time there was nothing on the market like it. The Pre is experiencing growing pains when there is already a 600 lb gorilla on the block.

Litigation is a double-edged sword for Apple. While it can most likely successfully litigate this issue and do severe damage to Palm in the courts, such an action would put the spotlight on the Pre and boost Pre sales. It also sounds eerily similar to the Mac/Windows legal battle of decades past. Everyone expected Apple to win, but they didn't, and now 90% of all desktops are Windows.

The core facts are pretty simple, but Apple's plan of attack is not. Nobody wants history to repeat itself, Apple faces a serious gamble if it loses any litigation or comes out anything less than an absolute victor. Apple will look like the neighborhood bully. Apple vs. Psystar was different -- the vast majority of consumers never even heard of Psystar. Apple vs. Palm will be all over the headlines. If Apple wins, it loses in the eyes of public opinion. If Apple loses, it loses in the eyes of public opinion. Apple's in a tough bind.

The best thing for everyone would be for Palm to actually develop something new and innovative on its own. I think this will be fought, and settled, in the court of public opinion and not in the court room

 

[jive turkey]

What a fun thread!

1. If Apple didn't care about its "loyal customers" and consumers in general, they would go out of business. Just think about it for a few minutes.

2. My iPod can make changes to iTunes' stored info that no other device can (i.e., I can create playlists on my iPod, and iTunes reflects play count and last played, new and listened to podcasts, etc.). If Apple allows companies to spoof being an iPod or directly connect to iTunes, they are opening themselves up to a mess load of problems when these other devices do not play nice; especially PR, & perhaps even legal.

3. Choice is necessary and good, but "open" is not better for consumers than "closed." Without the incentive to make as much money as possible, the best and brightest engineers would not work as hard to develop these things (if they worked at it at all), and we would still be living in the 19th century somewhere.

4. A monopoly is in effect when you have no choice, like when you must get your phone service from Company X because the government prevents Company Y from existing. Apple does not have a monopoly (and neither did Microsoft, and neither does AT&T with the iPhone exclusivity). If you don't like how the Pre syncs with iTunes, you have the choice to either use different software of buy a different phone. You aren't being forced to use either. Even if Palm is too lazy to do it, I would bet you all the money in China that someone (like Missing Sync) would develop software to allow Pre/iTunes compatibility if there were really a demand for it. You may not want to pay for it, but it would still be your choice.

5. Go to your local library or bookstore, or head over to Amazon and get yourself a copy of The 5000 Year Leap. It is a good lesson on what freedom and the pursuit of profit has given this world in the last 2 centuries.

 

[rscalzo]

Apple Should Sue Palm on Patents

Apple should just tie up Palm in court, blocking the sales of the Pre until it is resolved.

 

[*LTD*]

Apple should just tie up Palm in court, blocking the sales of the Pre until it is resolved.

Heh, there goes the neighourhood for Palm.

If some unseen, inexplicable force blocks sales of the iPhone for a while (not that it would happen), Apple will merrily continue with its other revenue streams. Apple was big before June 2007.

Palm, however, can't afford it's "last chance" device to be pulled from the shelves.

 

[smadpr]

a liked apple...now I hate it cuz

Pre.... why risk yourself with this manipulating vendor ID thing.... I wish u make a much better version of iTunes rather making any more marketing for Apple's content on the iTunes Store.

 

[Goona]

Palm why don't you released webOS on other devices, why do people have to buy a Pre in order to use it, so much for standing up for the consumers.

 

[_iCeb0x_]

This is bull... again - you can get Open Office or whatever there is, and convert files back and forth. Hence if they (users of nonMSFT products) managed to survive - than MSFT is no monopoly.

You can only "get Open Office and convert back and forth" because some developers spent their time reverse-engineering Microsoft's document formats. It wasn't until a couple of years ago that Microsoft published the old binary MS Office formats. Even then, the documentation is over 500 pages long and the developers would have to check their implementation against it... a process that could take months, maybe over a year.

It's hard for MS to sue these OSS developers. They didn't take action against them. If it was Corel, Apple or Sun doing it, the would have sued, for sure.

But the reason why MS Office is a monopoly is not any of those.

Suppose Apple went and asked Microsoft to license the formats and MS denied. MS would be on their right -- they can do that. And this too is not the reason why MS Office is a monopoly.

But, suppose the only reason behind this denial would not be to preserve MS Office's dominance in the market, but to take advantage of that dominance and force the competition out of business. This is considered a monopoly.

Back to the iTunes sync subject:

• If Apple denied Palm to sync through iTunes to force Palm out of business, it would be a monopolistic tactic.
• If Apple denied Palm to sync thorugh their own software ("PreTunes" or whatever), it would be a blatant monopolistic tactic.
• Since Apple does not deny any developer from writing their software for the Mac OS X platform, Palm could do it.
• If Palm is that lazy, they can always bundle The Missign Sync for Palm Pre with their phones.

 

[smadpr]

Why dont you understand

People cry on AT&T for Apple giving exclusive right to them on the iPhone.. Don't they understand that Apple has a huge benefit from AT&T as a result.

They all slap you charging huge amounts of money both on the phone and the mandatory data plans.

If they get the money any way during the 2yr contract.... obviously they are cheating you by not being transparent....

Now I really like what Palm is doing....Hatsoff!