This is good news. The more competition the better it is for consumers. IMHO cell phone plans are way too expensive now. I am hoping that cricket, who offers unlimited voice and text plan starting at $40, takes away alot of customers from the major carriers.
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Palm trying to 1-up Apple's [potential] iPhone Release?
- Thread starter patrickdunn
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John T
macrumors 68020
I'm inclined to agree with you, but... You really are asking for trouble expressing an opinion like that on a forum such as this!!! 😱😀
redman042
macrumors 68040
From all I've seen, the Pre looks like a great phone with a very polished UI, and may just be the first true competitor on par with the iPhone. There's some things about it that I wish the iPhone could do (mainly the multitasking with the little app panes that you flip through and can close by flicking up--that just rocks). But is it an iPhone killer? No, not at all. It will steal some iPhone customers but I think for the most part it will pick up customers that were holding off on the iPhone for one reason or another.
With all its innovation, the Pre is a brand new phone and it will have some hiccups and missing features. Even the original iPhone did. What I'm most skeptical about for the Pre on launch are battery life and stability. These are the things that will be tested most by the Pre's multitasking capabilities, and these are the things that could really dampen initial success of the phone. These are also the things we know least about, because the Pre has only been seen in controlled environments.
And I can't emphasize enough how important the 3rd party apps are to the iPhone's current success. There is no other phone like this, when it comes to 3rd party support. NOT EVEN CLOSE. No matter what profession I'm in, no matter what my hobbies and interests are, I can find apps on the iPhone to do useful or fun things in those categories. It is un-freakin-believable. The Pre has barely even broken ground in that regard, and I expect it will be a couple years before it sees a level of support even a tenth of what the iPhone currently has. So the app store alone is going to keep a lot of people firmly anchored to the iPhone, multitasking be damned.
With all its innovation, the Pre is a brand new phone and it will have some hiccups and missing features. Even the original iPhone did. What I'm most skeptical about for the Pre on launch are battery life and stability. These are the things that will be tested most by the Pre's multitasking capabilities, and these are the things that could really dampen initial success of the phone. These are also the things we know least about, because the Pre has only been seen in controlled environments.
And I can't emphasize enough how important the 3rd party apps are to the iPhone's current success. There is no other phone like this, when it comes to 3rd party support. NOT EVEN CLOSE. No matter what profession I'm in, no matter what my hobbies and interests are, I can find apps on the iPhone to do useful or fun things in those categories. It is un-freakin-believable. The Pre has barely even broken ground in that regard, and I expect it will be a couple years before it sees a level of support even a tenth of what the iPhone currently has. So the app store alone is going to keep a lot of people firmly anchored to the iPhone, multitasking be damned.
Vandam500
macrumors 68000
I agree, especially about the App Store. It really is amazing and is a big reason if not the best one to own the iPhone over all other phones. Like it or not, App Store is amazing and it will cause people to lean towards Apple's phone then Palm's. Just my $0.02
I really don't see whats so "amazing" about the app store. Sure it is convenient and nice..but "amazing"..no way. Some here get overly excited at small things..sheesh
clevin
macrumors G3
i dont doubt third party apps are great, but its that easy to forgot palm's numerous classic apps that will be supported in the Pre?
Also im not sure app store is as important as you think it is.
its nice to meet you, man from the future.
dejo
Moderator emeritus
But there has been some negative buzz about the Pre. So, not exactly "non stop", is it?
I wonder how well the classic apps will run and look on the Pre? Some may need an interface or performance update
clevin
macrumors G3
are you saying "nonstop positive buzz" is in conflict with "there are some negative buzz as well"?
Why do I feel nonstop is a word with temporal meaning?
I believe there are some demo videos on line.
dejo
Moderator emeritus
decksnap
macrumors 68040
It's obvious the pre wants to be side by side in every news story with the iPhone. Instead of 'Apple releases new phone' it'll be 'iPhone and Pre launch...blah blah blah.' Smart if it works, no idea if this kind of thing does though.
There is way too much praise for a phone essentially nobody has used. I expect the multitasking feature to be the best and worst thing about the Pre, as unassuming users grind their processors to a halt and drain their batteries.
Apple is and has been fully capable of implementing full multitasking, and we've heard their reason why they have not. Given their track record, I'm inclined to believe that they are correct on this one.
There is way too much praise for a phone essentially nobody has used. I expect the multitasking feature to be the best and worst thing about the Pre, as unassuming users grind their processors to a halt and drain their batteries.
Apple is and has been fully capable of implementing full multitasking, and we've heard their reason why they have not. Given their track record, I'm inclined to believe that they are correct on this one.
kdarling
Contributor
Good golly. Given their track record, I don't know how anyone could believe most of what Apple says.
Jobs is not an engineer. He's a salesman. He says whatever it takes at the moment, and has infused Apple with the same philosophy. He's infamous for putting down common features right up until his product finally gets them... and suddenly they're the most important things around.
For the iPhone, they drag out the battery excuse whenever they feel like it. It works because it has a grain of truth, but of course is not the whole truth. Their original lack of 3G was much more due to parts and data plan cost than battery. Their lack of multitasking is due much more to lack of RAM, CPU speed, battery capacity, and a fear of looking slow.
If Apple had any integrity, they'd simply say "hey we're not going to multitask because we like a fluid UI and thin device". That would be fine. Publishing ridiculous power usage numbers is not. Lots of us multitask just fine on our other phones, thanks.
clevin
macrumors G3
lol, are you kidding? fully capable of implementing full multi-tasking? the reason being battery isn't good enough?
LOL, that, right there, clearly told you that apple isn't capable of engineering the OS such that it is slim down enough and run smoothly multiple tasks without consuming unacceptable battery!
Fully capable? lol.
Yeah, Im fully capable of doing that, but when I do that, there is some other problems will pop up that I can't solve, so Im not gonna do that.
BS logic. Since when fully capable become so cheap and means not able to do it?
True the CPU/RAM whatever in the touch is crap. I was playing a song and started downloading an app. The song was stuttering during the download/install process.
Goona
macrumors 68020
decksnap
macrumors 68040
Because when they DO do it, they do it right. As luck would have it Jobs isn't actually working in the engineering department. I think he got promoted to CEO or something.
The track record I was speaking of is that of putting out products that have the best user experience. They don't win on a printed feature list, they win on the experience. If you are disputing that, there's no point discussing.
Oh Clevin, you're so predictable. If Apple said the sky was blue, you'd tell me how someone else wrote a program that in fact proves that it's red.
I wonder what you think their motive is then for not implementing it... apparently they're less capable of writing software than Palm? Give me a break. I believe they know what the experience would be like for the majority of users on modern hardware, and have calculated it is a negative overall experience at this time for the majority of users. When the time is right, you bet they'll do it. This is how Apple works.
I hope Jobs does the keynote and is back to normal... That alone will cause a lot of buzz. Add on top of that a new iPhone, and Palm will be eating dust.
John T
macrumors 68020
I'm a great fan of Apple and waiting to get an iPhone. I haven't so far because of no MMS plus the threads on this forum referring to complaints and horror stories regarding the poor construction quality and bad service of the iPhone!
Pardon! 😱 He cofounded Apple!!
clevin
macrumors G3
i will disregard your name calling personal description of me for now.
Motive of not doing something? is that obvious? because they can't. what motive do you need Not to do something good for users?
Negative overall experience? of course its negative for iPhone users, because apple can't do it right! Isn't that by definition an "inability"? You are projecting apple's failure onto other company! Pre is doing multi-tasking already! Whats there for you to assert that multi-tasking itself by definition is "negative user experience"?
When time is right? whats the right time for users to enjoy desktop level multitasking? and whats the right time for users work multiple work flow, or work and entertaining at the same time? When apple is capable? or when better hardwares can run apple's cumbersome implementation? sorry, right time for end users to enjoy better life is always NOW.
apple less capable writing software than palm? seems so, dont you think? in this case, what other conclusion can a reasonable person draw from the facts?
Im sorry most people read the facts and draw the conclusions, not put their faith ahead of reality.
kdarling
Contributor
If you had said that, then I wouldn't be disputing your opinion. But you didn't. You said:
Now, that reads exactly like you believed Jobs' assertions about battery usage and slowdowns being too much to allow background tasks.
The trouble with such a claim, as with the BS about MMS missing on the first iPhone, is that everyday usage proves him wrong.
Of course, he carefully ignored Apple's own background iPhone multitasking apps... along with the battery hit that notification push will take on some people's phones (as happened with email push).
Not to mention that the same arguments could be used against multitasking on laptops... yet my MacBook is not prevented from doing so! It's left up to me to decide what I want running.
Cheers - Kev
t0mat0
macrumors 603
Anyone else think it's going to be a hoot when all the macrumor members can themselves, in their own time, use the "early Juneish" Pre & the "we're not entirely sure but summer hopefully" v3 iPhone and judge for themselves? 🙂
We all want the new tech, right? Got something in common.
We all want the new tech, right? Got something in common.
milani
macrumors 68000
The Pre's multitasking is going to be its downfall. I can't wait to see real world battery life, or when primary apps like the phone run out of ram and crash out. It's going to be 10x worse than 3rd party apps and 2.0 with the iPhone ever was! And have you even seen the 10+ step process to try to free up ram that Palm posted? It's laughable, to be honest. I would love full multitasking support as much as the next person, but modern battery technology is just too far behind to support it I'm afraid. If it came down to true multitasking or basic and lasting functionality I'd pick the latter 10 times out of 10, as would any sensible consumer.
More generally, I think your conception (and many people's conception) of multitasking is skewed. The current interpretation of multitasking on a computer is to have multiple applications running at the same time, equally sucking ram and slowing down the system. When you think about it, this is a pretty archaic way to run most applications, especially in terms of notifications. That's why Apple's cloud approach is so innovative. While it was surely necessary simply because the ram is too weak to support multitasking in a conventional way, the result is that Apple was forced to develop something that makes far more sense in a mobile context. You're always connected, you need applications to push to the phone, so you build a scalable server that can manage push, and in so doing you save ram and battery life. This is a sensible approach to mobile multitasking - running multiple apps all the time really isn't.
I hope the Pre turns out to be the best smart phone built so far and so should iphone lovers. Competition is good for the market. It keeps the leaders of a market on it's toes. As long as the iphone stays far ahead of the rest, your going to pay through the nose for it and it's services. Bring on some viable competition. It always means a better product at a lower price for the customer.
clevin
macrumors G3
welcome, wishful thinking apple lover from the future!
run out of RAM! crash out! battery last 2 hours! Seems like you have quite clear a picture about apple's capability already!😛 And since NOBODY can do better than apple! you sure can SAFEly assume Pre is going to die!
Doesn't that sounds a bit desperate?
good luck with your wishful hatred. Too bad there are actually companies that CAN make multi-tasking phones.
Soaking in the apples RDF for too long isn't necessarily a bad thing, at least wishful thinking still have your hack, when reality fails you.
calling stone age single app approach of apple as "innovative", haha, I guess when apple say black is white, you would pretend not to see your finger in the day light then. what a joke.