Palm trying to 1-up Apple's [potential] iPhone Release?

[kdarling]

Everything on the pre is essentially a web app. So, as you can imagine, the depth of the apps will be quite shallow.

Depends on what you consider as depth. High-speed games? Yes, those would have to wait for the lower-level SDK, just as iPhone games had to wait for the same.

However, I think the initial ability to interact with other apps and system data will make for more interesting apps on the Pre. I also think that the low barrier to development (essentially, millions of developers) will mean a huge variety in a short while.

Interesting interview here with the Pandora chief tech guy.

The big question is how soon Palm will get the Pre onto ATT, and/or Verizon. Put the Pre on all three big carriers, and it could easily be a runaway hit in the USA.

 

[kas23]

You've missed something very important about how the pre will achieve its multitasking. There's no magic pixie dust that lets them bend the laws of nature to accomplish something others cannot. Everything on the pre is essentially a web app. So, as you can imagine, the depth of the apps will be quite shallow.

Beside games, what exact app in the App Store would you consider too complex for WebOS? Just curious...

 

[cwwilson]

People are really going gah-gah over the Pre. I remember a post in engadget where two teenage boys were holding Pres "out in the wild" and it quickly got thousands of comments like "the iPhone killer we've all been waiting for is finally here" and "bye bye iPhone RIP", "i laugh in the face of iPhone owners", "iPhone had a good run, now it's time for it to step aside and bow down to the new king".

So they're really confident in the Pre being able to put Apple on its knees. We'll see.

 

[Goona]

People are acting like the Pre is the only phone doing 3rd party multitasking, a whole lot of phones already do that.

People are really going gah-gah over the Pre. I remember a post in engadget where two teenage boys were holding Pres "out in the wild" and it quickly got thousands of comments like "the iPhone killer we've all been waiting for is finally here" and "bye bye iPhone RIP", "i laugh in the face of iPhone owners", "iPhone had a good run, now it's time for it to step aside and bow down to the new king".

So they're really confident in the Pre being able to put Apple on its knees. We'll see.

They also said all the same thing about all the supposed "iphone killers'' before they were released. I have a feeling this phone will go the same way. We won't have to wait long though.

 

[CocoaPuffs]

Have you ever heard of Tickle Me Elmo? Pogs? Razor scooters? Tamagotchi? Beanie Babies? If not, then you'll get my point. They are fads: consumers get hyped up and do things like waiting in line all night to buy. It's somewhat of a social phenomenon that relates little to the merits of the product. The hype eventually dies down and gets forgotten - which isn't to say that no one buys Elmo dolls anymore (or won't still buy the iPhone).

Have you ever heard of iPod? Or VHS? All it matters is marketing, and Palm has nothing on Apple.

 

[milani]

To all those who disagreed with my post:

http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2009/04/27/sprint-palm-pre-leak-shows-iphone-users-multitasking/

This is where I got my information. And to kdarling, it's not about what is or isn't too complicated for me (I daresay I'm as capable as you are), but what is perceived to be too complicated for the average consumer.

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

I think it's a pretty smart move to release it the day before iPhone 3.0

Then everyone will be directly comparing them, and if the Pre can pull ahead in features and execution then every review will be in the Pre's favor and it will over shadow iPhone 3.0's release.

 

[kdarling]

To all those who disagreed with my post:

http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2009/04/27/sprint-palm-pre-leak-shows-iphone-users-multitasking/

This is where I got my information. And to kdarling, it's not about what is or isn't too complicated for me (I daresay I'm as capable as you are), but what is perceived to be too complicated for the average consumer.

Your mistake is not knowing that the iPhone instructions are JUST AS COMPLICATED, IF NOT MORE SO.

For the Pre, it says to try the following, stopping when it works:
1) Close apps
2) Restart
3) Reset
4) Run quicktest

Now let's look at just the Frozen Phone and Common Issues troubleshooting section from Apple.

1) Recharge
2) Restart
3) Reset
4) Remove apps and data
5) Reset settings
6) Restore OS

With the exception of the ridiculous reloading of the OS on the iPhone, the steps are pretty much identical.

So calling the Pre's steps as "laughable", makes no sense. They're just normal handheld device debug procedures that Apple recommends as well.

 

[iLoveMyApple]

It's good for the iPhone to have some competition. It encourages Apple to make the iPhone better!

 

[ZebraineZ]

its not a picture hanging there like iphone's safari, each card is live and running! inside the card! shape might be similar, but there aren't many stuff out on the computer that isn't square....

not to mention, what is the biggest advantage of multi-tasking? you can work on net, IM, email, office, music, simultaneously! switch between them, absolutely no interruption of each other's flow. Try that on your iphone, or your mobile safari.

Glorified webpages? no, I should say iPhone itself is just a glorified apple launcher. just like the concept in treo by palm 7 years ago. Now thats a more proper comparison.

Get a computer. Obviously your not a iphone type of person.

I don't see why you have to bash the iphone. If the iphone didn't exist I am pretty sure the pre wouldn't have all these 'amazing' features to begin with.

Heck if you multitask heavily on your computer using the stock ram that it came with, your computer would become laggy right? Now imagine this on a cellphone for crying outloud...Even with multitasking, you don't need your email constantly on 24/7 while using IM, that doesn't make sense.

If you need a phone for 'office' (w/e) then you still have to wait because we don't know what type of apps it might have for office use, so your best bet is a computer again.
For music obviously the iphone is the winner here...

We also don't know how well the accelorameter (idc about how its spelled) will work or how responsive the touchscreen will be. I can say that the iphone really does have the best touchscreen and accelorameter, because when you use it you don't get complete lagginess everytime and its so smooth when you use it it feels almost like water. If you really need a music device then just get a zune since you might bash ipods as well for being 4x the money it takes to make them....god...

Just wait and see how the pre turns out, it may be a very good phone but end up being forgotten overtime, like the G1 which could have been good as well, it has a very good interface.

Also I have tried backrounding apps on the iphone and it doesn't run as crappy but I make sure not to run too may apps in the backround, as you would do with any phone. Since the pre would be using simple web apps, then it would just be pretty much like the browser, hence you would be using just one application instead of many, which you can do on the iphone very well (safari has meebo on, yahoo mail and any other site).

Don't forget, the Pre is on sprint other carriers a maybe but for now they are dead in there tracks.

 

[kas23]

Your mistake is not knowing that the iPhone instructions are JUST AS COMPLICATED, IF NOT MORE SO.

For the Pre, it says to try the following, stopping when it works:
1) Close apps
2) Restart
3) Reset
4) Run quicktest

Now let's look at just the Frozen Phone and Common Issues troubleshooting section from Apple.

1) Recharge
2) Restart
3) Reset
4) Remove apps and data
5) Reset settings
6) Restore OS

With the exception of the ridiculous reloading of the OS on the iPhone, the steps are pretty much identical.

So calling the Pre's steps as "laughable", makes no sense. They're just normal handheld device debug procedures that Apple recommends as well.

Well, Kdarling, he showed you. He posted a blog as proof!

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

<snip!>

That's a little too apologetic for my tastes. Clevin made some good points, care to make some counter points?

 

[kas23]

People are acting like the Pre is the only phone doing 3rd party multitasking, a whole lot of phones already do that.

Except the iPhone though. How innovative. May Steve Jobs is just trailblazing and trying to show us we really don't need to have more than one app opened at once. Just like he was trying to make us learn we don't really want MMS.

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Just like he was trying to make us learn we don't really want MMS.

I can't find any sources where Steve Jobs says anything to this effect.

 

[ZebraineZ]

Except the iPhone though. How innovative. May Steve Jobs is just trailblazing and trying to show us we really don't need to have more than one app opened at once. Just like he was trying to make us learn we don't really want MMS.

Well, I for one don't....if email can at least get almost all the features of MMS and be more of a 'Lite' Email, then I can fully change to it (from my iPhone I mean). Also it is the people with cheap phones that have MMS but don't have email that is holding us back and not wanting to change.

 

[Starfall]

Here's a major problem I have with all of these "The Palm Pre is gonna be way better than the iPhone! It's got multitasking, etc.!" predictions:

Palm has been in the smartphone/PDA business for over 15 years. If they were really passionate about phones and the way people use them, they would have been the company to come up with something like the iPhone first. Instead, at most they've been passionate about selling stuff, so they took shortcuts with the technology, design, and user experience areas which ultimately allowed Apple to come in and be so successful with the iPhone. So in order to compete with Apple now, Palm will have to completely reinvent itself as a company that's now focused primarily on innovation, design, and with a long-term technology road map rather than on the business of pushing phones and PDAs. That has to be one of the hardest transitions for a company to make, and I think it's unlikely to happen.

I mean, which is more likely? That Palm really has completely reinvented itself as a passionate, innovative leader with a long-term vision of what phones and PDAs, etc. should be like, or that they're just marketing themselves that way these days?

Don't misunderstand me - I predict that the Palm Pre will be nice to look at, with a kind of skin-deep beauty, and will have an impressive list of features (multitasking! Easy web-based technologies!), but that most of the things that would require a truly innovative and passionate company driving them will be missing. Those things just don't seem to be part of Palm's culture. Again, if Palm really has what it takes, why did Apple just "walk right in" after Palm had been in the business for a decade?

 

[kas23]

Here's a major problem I have with all of these "The Palm Pre is gonna be way better than the iPhone! It's got multitasking, etc.!" predictions:

Palm has been in the smartphone/PDA business for over 15 years. If they were really passionate about phones and the way people use them, they would have been the company to come up with something like the iPhone first. Instead, at most they've been passionate about selling stuff, so they took shortcuts with the technology, design, and user experience areas which ultimately allowed Apple to come in and be so successful with the iPhone. So in order to compete with Apple now, Palm will have to completely reinvent itself as a company that's now focused primarily on innovation, design, and with a long-term technology road map rather than on the business of pushing phones and PDAs. That has to be one of the hardest transitions for a company to make, and I think it's unlikely to happen.

I mean, which is more likely? That Palm really has completely reinvented itself as a passionate, innovative leader with a long-term vision of what phones and PDAs, etc. should be like, or that they're just marketing themselves that way these days?

Don't misunderstand me - I predict that the Palm Pre will be nice to look at, with a kind of skin-deep beauty, and will have an impressive list of features (multitasking! Easy web-based technologies!), but that most of the things that would require a truly innovative and passionate company driving them will be missing. Those things just don't seem to be part of Palm's culture. Again, if Palm really has what it takes, why did Apple just "walk right in" after Palm had been in the business for a decade?

For a minute there, I thought you were describing Apple a little over 10 years ago. My point is, yes, it can be done. Probably unlikely and there are many rooting against them, but I'm sure many said the same about Apple back then too. Palm does have a long history & they have a good technological foundation, they just have had a lack of good leadership for years. Idk, may Rubinstein can do it. We'll see...

 

[kas23]

I can't find any sources where Steve Jobs says anything to this effect.

No, he did not. I was being facetious. But all the Apple apologists did, to explain an obvious iPhone shortcoming. So, we certainly don't need people attempting to downplay the importance of multitasking, in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Starfall]

For a minute there, I thought you were describing Apple a little over 10 years ago. My point is, yes, it can be done.

Of course it can be done. The issue is how likely is it that Palm has done it, based on what we currently know. Last I checked, a Steve Jobs-like leader has not joined Palm...

UPDATE: I looked up Rubinstein, and see that he was a big-wig at Apple. That does improve the odds, but it still seems like a long shot for Palm.

 

[QCassidy352]

Gotta love how multitasking is now being held up as the holy grail of smart phones ever since the 3.0 announcement removed every other advantage the Pre seemed to have over the iphone.

Multitasking is one somewhat interesting aspect to a smart phone os. I have a bb that can switch between apps and it makes very little difference. Only one app can be on the screen at a time anyway, so what you're really talking about is how quickly you can switch between apps (plus a few apps that need to run in the background like IM programs or music players). Since I have no problem with how long it takes to close one app and launch another on my iphone, I really don't see this as a big deal.

 

[milani]

Your mistake is not knowing that the iPhone instructions [...]

No, my mistake has been to entertain you for this long. I will henceforth correct myself.

Well, Kdarling, he showed you. He posted a blog as proof!

At least I have something to back up my statements - as opposed to people like you who purport the know what companies will do without any evidence, like assuming that Apple will build an iPhone nano because you think it would be a hit.

Refer to the post above mine, because he seems to understand the paradox of mobile multitasking a little better than most of the nutters in this thread.

 

[Eso]

Gotta love how multitasking is now being held up as the holy grail of smart phones ever since the 3.0 announcement removed every other advantage the Pre seemed to have over the iphone.

What advantages would those be? Copy/Paste, MMS, global search? The only thing that comes remotely close to "removing any other advantage the Pre seemed to have" would be global search. I was excited when Kevin Rose's source said that "any advantage the Pre thought it had is now gone" the day before the 3.0 event, but I was sorely disappointed.

The card system for apps has been a major feature in focus before 3.0 was even announced. The Pre's notification system is another major advantage over the iPhone. Far from removing any advantage the Pre seemed to have over the iPhone, 3.0 actually reinforced the features that seem to make the iPhone inferior. Not only was the springboard unchanged, it was further cluttered with the spotlight page (and two more app pages, wow!). Not only was the notification system not improved, but they have no plans to improve it as Push also relies on it.

Only one app can be on the screen at a time anyway, so what you're really talking about is how quickly you can switch between apps (plus a few apps that need to run in the background like IM programs or music players). Since I have no problem with how long it takes to close one app and launch another on my iphone, I really don't see this as a big deal.

Refer to the post above mine, because he seems to understand the paradox of mobile multitasking a little better than most of the nutters in this thread.

I beg to differ:

Multitasking goes beyond opening apps more quickly (although that would be nice as some apps are a little slow to open). While you may not see the big deal, Apple does. Why do you think they added the function of double-tap to bring up iPod controls from any screen on the phone? They recognize the utility in being able to quickly control one app without interrupting your work flow in another. This is the closest resemblance of multitasking on the iPhone and probably one of the most convenient features it has. While tying an email, for example, you can momentarily distract your attention to advance to the next song then bring your train of thought right back to typing. There are dozens of situations where the same principle applies, such as browsing a web page and responding to a text message.

Way beyond the speed of opening apps is being able to use functions of the phone while an app is open that must continuously run for a time. Turn-by-turn navigation apps will not be the least of them. For example, a pedometer app must be active to track your run. Air sharing must be open to keep the connection alive. Many apps that requires log-in will log you out when the app closes (or, if not explicitly, you still must log in when you re-launch the app). And, of course, don't forget the ever-popular streaming media apps like simplify media, Pandora, last.fm, and the much anticipated Sling Media player.

But hey, it's nice that you are happy your apps open up quickly.

 

[marksman]

The pre is in a lot of trouble because they have partnered with sprint. Sprint is a second-tier network at this point, and the only reason they have any customers right now is because they give away service with their sero program.

I think Palm would have done better to have worked an exclusive with any other carrier.

 

[marksman]

Just because apple is media darling, thats why a Pre releasing one day before will 100% generates wide comparisons by EVERY Media.

If by comparisons in every media you mean a footnote mention that the pre was released the previous day than you are right. If you think this means every article about the new iphone and its specs is going to include a full breakdown of the pre and what it does, you could not be more wrong.

 

[marksman]

This is good news. The more competition the better it is for consumers. IMHO cell phone plans are way too expensive now. I am hoping that cricket, who offers unlimited voice and text plan starting at $40, takes away alot of customers from the major carriers.

I don't know who cricket is but I have never heard of them, and I doubt they are building out there own cell network. Which means they are re-selling another carriers product, which means they can't really have the kind of impact you would like them to have.