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Panasonic vs Canon
- Thread starter BossofMASS
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The lens is literally just the lens. The body is the rest of the camera which includes tape (or card) mechanism, viewfinder, lcd display, nobs and buttons for controls, a spot to hold it.
I hope you got from this thread that there is no 'best' camera. There are many different cameras that are better or worse in different situations and needs. For instance, it is possible to send a signal through the hdmi out of your canon hv20 that would blow almost any hdv image away, but you would need a macpro next to you plus a special capture card. Not gonna happen if you're trying to film in the Alaskan wild. But could be a viable green screen option in a pinch.
Speaking of the Canon HV20, i own and use it and it is a blast and I love it. But, there are many circumstances where I would rather use a different camera.
Lethal mentioned that one of the cameras almost seemed 'too' sharp. This is another thing to think about when choosing cameras. In a nature doc I would imagine you would want the sharpest and crispest image possible. Shooting a narrative film you might not want it so sharp (in focus yes). A lot of video footage is diffused with filters or in post to smooth out the sometimes overly sharp video image.
For my own personal needs (mostly short narrative work, but some documentary use as well, mostly in cities) I would buy a Sony EX1 if I were buying a camera tomorrow and were keeping to under $10k. If I was buying a camera early next year, I would look at the EX1 (or possible EX3), the Panasonic HPX-170, or the RED Scarlet. But again, that would be for my needs. For me, tapeless workflow is no problem. I don't really need interchangeable lenses because I wouldn't be able to afford any new ones anyway!
Seriously consider your other needs as well. Don't just think you'll spend $200 on a sound package. And don't put a good mic on the camera body unless there are really no other options. If you get one of these nice cameras, a tripod that matches it in quality will probably cost you well over $500. If you're shooting solid state, you need to back up your media.
I hope you got from this thread that there is no 'best' camera. There are many different cameras that are better or worse in different situations and needs. For instance, it is possible to send a signal through the hdmi out of your canon hv20 that would blow almost any hdv image away, but you would need a macpro next to you plus a special capture card. Not gonna happen if you're trying to film in the Alaskan wild. But could be a viable green screen option in a pinch.
Speaking of the Canon HV20, i own and use it and it is a blast and I love it. But, there are many circumstances where I would rather use a different camera.
Lethal mentioned that one of the cameras almost seemed 'too' sharp. This is another thing to think about when choosing cameras. In a nature doc I would imagine you would want the sharpest and crispest image possible. Shooting a narrative film you might not want it so sharp (in focus yes). A lot of video footage is diffused with filters or in post to smooth out the sometimes overly sharp video image.
For my own personal needs (mostly short narrative work, but some documentary use as well, mostly in cities) I would buy a Sony EX1 if I were buying a camera tomorrow and were keeping to under $10k. If I was buying a camera early next year, I would look at the EX1 (or possible EX3), the Panasonic HPX-170, or the RED Scarlet. But again, that would be for my needs. For me, tapeless workflow is no problem. I don't really need interchangeable lenses because I wouldn't be able to afford any new ones anyway!
Seriously consider your other needs as well. Don't just think you'll spend $200 on a sound package. And don't put a good mic on the camera body unless there are really no other options. If you get one of these nice cameras, a tripod that matches it in quality will probably cost you well over $500. If you're shooting solid state, you need to back up your media.
Well now that I realize there is no best camera, I guess this was just a way for me to get my options going. This whole documentary business isn't going to happen just like that, when I have worked up enough money to purchase a camera and the equiptment, that is what I'm going to be stressing about. That's not for a while to come though, but I was mainly wanting to see which camera would be suitable for my needs in the outdoors, but me not knowing the variability of cameras had no idea that every camera had its flaws, but also its benefits. I guess I will just have to do a little more investigating to see what kind of camera seems like its to my expectations. By what I've heard on the forums, there are some properties of the camera that you will like or want, but then there is a drawback to it. So for example its like deciding if you want a camera that has crisp and sharp images, but the drawback of it is, that it doesn't have image stabability or you know something that might have somewhat of an affect (ok so maybe that wasn't the best example lol). You get the picture.
As for trying a camera out before I buy it, I don't know if that is possible. I mean it could be possible, but where I live in Alaska there is no store that even sells camcorders over $1000, so let along a professional one. I would have to rent it from some out of state buisness and see how it works. I just can see that adding up to a bit of money, but I will just have to wait and find out for myself. Yeah of course it would be nice to test out every camera that I think would suit the job, but that doesn't always happen. Some people can't just go out and test a laptop that they are wanting to get, I guess it just all depends on the circumstances. I've been thinking about this and it kind of doesn't make any sense for me to be asking which camera would be better because if you think about it, the time I get the money for this camera, there could be another camera that comes out that is even better than the one I had been looking at previously. I just need to get one of those break-through cameras that only happen once in a blue moon
.
As for trying a camera out before I buy it, I don't know if that is possible. I mean it could be possible, but where I live in Alaska there is no store that even sells camcorders over $1000, so let along a professional one. I would have to rent it from some out of state buisness and see how it works. I just can see that adding up to a bit of money, but I will just have to wait and find out for myself. Yeah of course it would be nice to test out every camera that I think would suit the job, but that doesn't always happen. Some people can't just go out and test a laptop that they are wanting to get, I guess it just all depends on the circumstances. I've been thinking about this and it kind of doesn't make any sense for me to be asking which camera would be better because if you think about it, the time I get the money for this camera, there could be another camera that comes out that is even better than the one I had been looking at previously. I just need to get one of those break-through cameras that only happen once in a blue moon
.
Well now that I realize there is no best camera, I guess this was just a way for me to get my options going. This whole documentary business isn't going to happen just like that, when I have worked up enough money to purchase a camera and the equiptment, that is what I'm going to be stressing about. That's not for a while to come though, but I was mainly wanting to see which camera would be suitable for my needs in the outdoors, but me not knowing the variability of cameras had no idea that every camera had its flaws, but also its benefits. I guess I will just have to do a little more investigating to see what kind of camera seems like its to my expectations. By what I've heard on the forums, there are some properties of the camera that you will like or want, but then there is a drawback to it. So for example its like deciding if you want a camera that has crisp and sharp images, but the drawback of it is, that it doesn't have image stabability or you know something that might have somewhat of an affect (ok so maybe that wasn't the best example lol). You get the picture.
As for trying a camera out before I buy it, I don't know if that is possible. I mean it could be possible, but where I live in Alaska there is no store that even sells camcorders over $1000, so let along a professional one. I would have to rent it from some out of state buisness and see how it works. I just can see that adding up to a bit of money, but I will just have to wait and find out for myself. Yeah of course it would be nice to test out every camera that I think would suit the job, but that doesn't always happen. Some people can't just go out and test a laptop that they are wanting to get, I guess it just all depends on the circumstances. I've been thinking about this and it kind of doesn't make any sense for me to be asking which camera would be better because if you think about it, the time I get the money for this camera, there could be another camera that comes out that is even better than the one I had been looking at previously. I just need to get one of those break-through cameras that only happen once in a blue moon
very true, we are lucky to have so many amazing cameras coming out every year! It may be tough to get your hands on a camera but you might be helped at least a bit by looking around the internet, downloading HD samples of footage people have shot (a lot of stuff on vimeo, but there is stuff everywhere). The fact is all of these cameras can produce images that can often blow you away if handled and shot correctly. You want the best image you can get, but as I've heard it said, I doubt the audience is counting the pixels. maybe think most about what kind of workflow would work best (tape vs. solid state).
More considerations
For the budget conscious, you have a choice between the plethora of HDV cameras out there and the Panasonic HVX200 using the DVCPROHD codec with P2 cards. There are advantages and disadvantages.
HDV Advantages:
Great image quality on more static shots
Very inexpensive media (miniDV tape)
Long run times (63 minute tapes vs. 8 minutes on a P2 card)
HVX200 Advantages:
More robust codec for HD, especially moving shots, with fewer artifacts
P2 cards can be unloaded and cleared between shot set-ups in a minute or two, or piggy-backed.
Panasonic's ideal is not perfect razor sharpness as it is "film-like".
So, for many applications, HDV is a perfect fit, and is increasingly inexpensive. I imagine that for most documentaries, especially those requiring long, unbroken run times, HDV would be the way to go.
For independent filmmakers, however, the HVX200 is a way to get into the 16mm/35mm film look as cheaply as possible.
Don't let the short record times of the P2 media scare you. Remember that he 4 or 8 minute P2 times are of no concern to a filmmaker--those big mouse-eared film magazines you see Hollywood directors using only hold film sufficient to shoot 10 minutes or so before replacement with a new mag. No shot in a film runs longer than 30 seconds before cutting away to a new shot anyway. And with P2, you can immediately dump bad takes. Once you have your shot, an assistant downloads the shots from the P2 card to a nearby laptop, erases the card, and hands it back to you, long before the lighting and set-up crews have the next camera sequence ready.
Canon glass is great. But glass is only one part of the equation. The best professional camera systems out there are Sony, Panasonic, and the newcomer, RED.
For the budget conscious, you have a choice between the plethora of HDV cameras out there and the Panasonic HVX200 using the DVCPROHD codec with P2 cards. There are advantages and disadvantages.
HDV Advantages:
Great image quality on more static shots
Very inexpensive media (miniDV tape)
Long run times (63 minute tapes vs. 8 minutes on a P2 card)
HVX200 Advantages:
More robust codec for HD, especially moving shots, with fewer artifacts
P2 cards can be unloaded and cleared between shot set-ups in a minute or two, or piggy-backed.
Panasonic's ideal is not perfect razor sharpness as it is "film-like".
So, for many applications, HDV is a perfect fit, and is increasingly inexpensive. I imagine that for most documentaries, especially those requiring long, unbroken run times, HDV would be the way to go.
For independent filmmakers, however, the HVX200 is a way to get into the 16mm/35mm film look as cheaply as possible.
Don't let the short record times of the P2 media scare you. Remember that he 4 or 8 minute P2 times are of no concern to a filmmaker--those big mouse-eared film magazines you see Hollywood directors using only hold film sufficient to shoot 10 minutes or so before replacement with a new mag. No shot in a film runs longer than 30 seconds before cutting away to a new shot anyway. And with P2, you can immediately dump bad takes. Once you have your shot, an assistant downloads the shots from the P2 card to a nearby laptop, erases the card, and hands it back to you, long before the lighting and set-up crews have the next camera sequence ready.
Canon glass is great. But glass is only one part of the equation. The best professional camera systems out there are Sony, Panasonic, and the newcomer, RED.
I got a used Panasonic DVX100a after reading so many great things about Panasonic on this thread (and other sources), and I've always been a Canon user, having a GL2, XL1, XL1s, and wanting an XL2. I used the DVX for my first full day and I have to say that, at least in the prosumer line of things, the Panasonic DVX feels and operates so much better...
Alright I have some new question...
I know there are many factors that go into a camera but whats the overall "best" camera under $5000 that has HD? Out of all brands.
What about comparing the Canon XL H1 and the XL H1A?
What brand of tapes would you recommend for the highest quality?
I know there are many factors that go into a camera but whats the overall "best" camera under $5000 that has HD? Out of all brands.
What about comparing the Canon XL H1 and the XL H1A?
What brand of tapes would you recommend for the highest quality?