Exactly.
That bass-ackwards claim proves that he's either completely clueless or wildly spinning, so I'd write off everything else he's saying as meaningless or completely wrong, as well.
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Pandora CFO Sees iTunes Radio as 'Credible Threat', Calls iTunes 'Detrimental' to Music Industry
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That bass-ackwards claim proves that he's either completely clueless or wildly spinning, so I'd write off everything else he's saying as meaningless or completely wrong, as well.
I don’t think it’s simply about iTunes, or streaming services, or the so-called death of the CD.
It’s about a never-ending renewal process in music. Yes, Napster jump-started an illegal pirating process. It culminated in Apple having the power to force the music biz to adapt.
But note that this was and is about pop music. Which means, yes, the CD isn’t for disposable pop anymore. Instead, it’s mostly for serious music, on serious systems (along with vinyl) until music can be delivered at 24/96.
Back to pop. I think it starts declining with MTV. Pop musicians suddenly had to dance, and choreograph music for complicated routines. And devise sensationalist behaviors. Think Madonna (and her legions of copyists). And the shock rock bands.
Then add a massive amount of young musicians who could form bands by using Antares and pedals and synths, plus affordable home studio equipment. The demo’s started piling up so fast the labels couldn’t listen to them anymore. They just sent them back, unopened.
Then take away the labels’ slush funds from highly profitable CD’s. No more development money for promising new artists. And no A&R budget to find them.
New music? Without development money? These days, music has to fit a pre-existing iTunes or streaming service category. Pick your slot.
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I am amending my post because this thread is changing my mind. I know that sounds weird, but it is possible.
Mostly, I realized what I said about new trends is only possible in a locale with a deep new music culture, like Seattle, Portland, LA, NYC, Austin, the UK, Germany, etc. I shouldn’t have generalized. I have an excuse. Pumping too much Seattle caffeine.
Miley twerking her way to #1 on the Billboard charts, selling over 270,000 copies (not downloads) unfortunately demonstrates the rest of my post.
It’s about a never-ending renewal process in music. Yes, Napster jump-started an illegal pirating process. It culminated in Apple having the power to force the music biz to adapt.
But note that this was and is about pop music. Which means, yes, the CD isn’t for disposable pop anymore. Instead, it’s mostly for serious music, on serious systems (along with vinyl) until music can be delivered at 24/96.
Back to pop. I think it starts declining with MTV. Pop musicians suddenly had to dance, and choreograph music for complicated routines. And devise sensationalist behaviors. Think Madonna (and her legions of copyists). And the shock rock bands.
Then add a massive amount of young musicians who could form bands by using Antares and pedals and synths, plus affordable home studio equipment. The demo’s started piling up so fast the labels couldn’t listen to them anymore. They just sent them back, unopened.
Then take away the labels’ slush funds from highly profitable CD’s. No more development money for promising new artists. And no A&R budget to find them.
New music? Without development money? These days, music has to fit a pre-existing iTunes or streaming service category. Pick your slot.
--
I am amending my post because this thread is changing my mind. I know that sounds weird, but it is possible.
Mostly, I realized what I said about new trends is only possible in a locale with a deep new music culture, like Seattle, Portland, LA, NYC, Austin, the UK, Germany, etc. I shouldn’t have generalized. I have an excuse. Pumping too much Seattle caffeine.
Miley twerking her way to #1 on the Billboard charts, selling over 270,000 copies (not downloads) unfortunately demonstrates the rest of my post.
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Lots of kites in Central Park too. They won't be replacing the airplane anytime soon.
Is the horse and buggy dead as a transportation method? Abso-frackin-lutely. Does it still have a limited role as a tourist attraction or in desperately poor areas? Yes. Are GM, Honda, Nissan, Ford et all losing even a nanosecond's sleep over it? Are you kidding me?
...ever read the whole thread?
I already responded to the CP comment.I also didn't bring up the analogy.
Albums didn't die because of iTunes. You can still buy entire albums on iTunes. Or you can buy singles, just like you always could at the store. Were albums ever really alive? It seems to me people have always bought singles instead of albums... there's just not that many albums out there that are worth owning in their entirety rather than just the select few amazing tracks off of it.
And I think you are one of the best contributors to this forum. Your comments are always full of common sense.
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It really depends on the country. I have recently moved from the UK to Australia, to find out people here still go to Blockbuster...
iTunes Radio can never be a real threat to Pandora, unless Apple release a Windows version and an Android version as well. Otherwise, even in the worst scenario, say, none of the iOS users use Pandora, Pandora just lose 2% of the whole market.
In the US, more than half of the smartphones are iPhones. I think a majority of those people will be using iTunes Radio instead of Pandora on their iPhones (all the people I know are). That's much more than a 2% lose for Pandora. You will never see iTunes Radio on Android. They are welcome to keep Pandora
.Note: Windows does support iTunes Radio.
Your post got me to rethink the music biz. Thanks for that.
I did some research. The last game-changing pop album could be Wilcos Yankee Foxtrot Hotel. It pretty much invented the alt rock category.
It was released in 2001. The same year iPod/iTunes was released. Interesting coincidences.
But I dont think it was just iTunes software that disrupted the music biz. Pandora launched their software in 2000, a year before iPod/iTunes. It was Apples integrated iPod/iTunes package. For the first time, anyone could easily pick and choose, and then take their music nearly anywhere, with a portable device that worked flawlessly.
The timing was perfect. Now everyone could purchase and listen in bits and pieces. Commuting, exercising, walking the pooch, whatever.
So you are right. Albums didnt die because of iTunes. They died because most people got too busy too listen to an entire album. And Apple supplied the perfect solution.
This would suggest iRadio is mostly an extension of Apples game-changing package. From download to streaming. Its not going to be a game-changer, but it could take a significant amount of biz from Pandora and Spotify.
I think you have to look at the actual numbers. iOS isn't 2 percent. And assuming that people spending $100 on a phone don't spend $100 a year on music, iOS share is much much higher among potential Pandora users. And think what happens is when Apple achieves its real goal - which is to sell more iOS devices to people wanting to use iTunes Radio.
This article seems to state quite the contrary: http://shocklee.com/2013/10/why-the...usic-services-and-distributors-make-billions/
Except that this is one case where CDs are still far superior to any MP3 store. The sound quality of FLACs paired with a good set of studio monitors is still unbeatable. iTunes files lack depth... this is why I've started buying off of Amazon. Buy a CD, and you get the full album as free MP3 downloads that you can also access via Cloud Player, in addition to the CD that should arrive in the mail a few days after you download the files. In many cases, buying the CD with AutoRip is cheaper than the MP3 album.
And, if you say you only want singles and that most songs on an album suck, here's a huge tip for you:
A good album is a journey; a musical LSD trip.
So, stop buying pop and listen to better music.
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A BETTER MARKET. Not a better format. It's the whole convenience v. quality thing again. I, for one, will always prefer quality over convenience.
What I don't get is all these people saying iTunes killed the CD business. The CD business isn't dead. Hell, Vinyl is still selling loads somehow, and CDs are still a long long way off from being killed off.
Not as popular as they once were? Defiantly. But certainly not dead.
Not as popular as they once were? Defiantly. But certainly not dead.
Except that this is one case where CDs are still far superior to any MP3 store. The sound quality of FLACs paired with a good set of studio monitors is still unbeatable. iTunes files lack depth... this is why I've started buying off of Amazon. Buy a CD, and you get the full album as free MP3 downloads that you can also access via Cloud Player, in addition to the CD that should arrive in the mail a few days after you download the files. In many cases, buying the CD with AutoRip is cheaper than the MP3 album.
And, if you say you only want singles and that most songs on an album suck, here's a huge tip for you:
A good album is a journey; a musical LSD trip.
So, stop buying pop and listen to better music.
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A BETTER MARKET. Not a better format. It's the whole convenience v. quality thing again. I, for one, will always prefer quality over convenience.
Unfortunately, very few people actually care about sound quality of digital vs. lossless. That's a niche market at this point.
My point is that CDs are on the decline because most people prefer the convenience of mp3 downloads and choosing individual songs. I am not trying to start an argument about which is better. I am only talking about the market and sales of each format.
Stop making assumptions about what I personally listen to, because you look like a fool.
I never made any assumptions about anything. That last comment was tongue-in-cheek... I thought that was pretty clear with the wink emoticon at the end.
Also, while CD sales have declined for the past decade, they've held fairly steady for the last 3 years. There are still people who want physical media, and those people aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Maybe in another 5 years, we'll see something happen, but right now, I don't see CDs going away. They're more analytical and precise than vinyl, and better quality overall compared to MP3 files, and audiophiles will never want to ditch lossless.
Until there's an online, DRM-free store for FLACs, you can pry my external SuperDrive out of my cold, dead hands.
Yeah, you know, from a technology perspective CDs are better, but only in specific use cases: the right listening location, the right equipment, the right audio engineering, and definitely the right music
Obviously if you're listening to a 128Kbps Ke$ha MP3 through Apple earbuds while running, that's extreme case of bad-bad-bad-bad - but I'd suggest that a correctly converted AAC or MP3 file, through decent mid-ranged [popular consumer branded] gear in an environment that's reasonably conducive to listening is pretty darn good, and that gap between CD/Lossless and a lossy format closes to the point where convenience easily wins out.
When you only count the mobile phones, sure, iOS is at 10%, but when you count computers altogether, people who use only Apple products are 2% at most. People won't listen to iTunes Radio on their iPhones just to have to manage their music listening configurations again on their Windows using Pandora.
Wish "VDs" were indeed dead, but they have just been renamed to STDs/STIsFunny that you maintain that VDs are "dead" yet you still hold onto yours. Why is that? You've already imported them. I just find that interesting. Especially since you can scan in the artwork too
So far as my CDs, I keep them for sentimental reasons (I am a collector) and as a backup of last resort. Fair enough? Still dead though
Sorry about the thread necromancy, but I just noticed this, and wanted to correct it:
Of those (again, globally, over the last year), Apple has about 14% of the smartphone market (~140M), ~32% of tablets (71M), and 7.5% of desktops and laptops (17M).
If we're talking about music listening, those numbers are all pretty good. If we're talking about active use as computers, the huge disparity in usage share on the web (influenced, for example, by the large number of very cheap Chinese tablets used mostly to watch video, or people who don't use their smartphones for much more than calls, texting, and music) illustrates that the functional market share of Apple products in the first two of those three categories is much higher, and in the third it's probably somewhat lower due to all the old Windows machines still in use.
In none of those categories is Apple anywhere near 2% marketshare--the worst is traditional computers, and even there Apple has maintained a much-larger-than-2% share for several years running. If we just include tablets, not phones, Apple has a 16% share. And if we include smartphones, they're still at nearly 15%.
Point being, while the share in the US is significantly higher than elsewhere, even looked at globally Apple's OSes have a nontrivial market share, and disproportionately large usage share.
Some people seem to have gotten used to the idea that Apple has a trivial market share--or that desktop and laptop PCs are still dominant when it comes to the computing devices people use--neither of which is the case right now. Apple's market share could go either way, but the number of PCs sold now appears to have entered a consistent decline, while tablets and smartphones are unquestionably still on the upswing.
Actually, this reflects a serious underestimate of both Mac sales and just how huge the tablet and smartphone market have become. If you combine the three into a single category of "computing devices", desktop and laptops this year only account for 20% of sales globally (315M units); tablets are another 15% (227M units) and smartphones the remaining 65% (1.01B units).
Of those (again, globally, over the last year), Apple has about 14% of the smartphone market (~140M), ~32% of tablets (71M), and 7.5% of desktops and laptops (17M).
If we're talking about music listening, those numbers are all pretty good. If we're talking about active use as computers, the huge disparity in usage share on the web (influenced, for example, by the large number of very cheap Chinese tablets used mostly to watch video, or people who don't use their smartphones for much more than calls, texting, and music) illustrates that the functional market share of Apple products in the first two of those three categories is much higher, and in the third it's probably somewhat lower due to all the old Windows machines still in use.
In none of those categories is Apple anywhere near 2% marketshare--the worst is traditional computers, and even there Apple has maintained a much-larger-than-2% share for several years running. If we just include tablets, not phones, Apple has a 16% share. And if we include smartphones, they're still at nearly 15%.
Point being, while the share in the US is significantly higher than elsewhere, even looked at globally Apple's OSes have a nontrivial market share, and disproportionately large usage share.
Some people seem to have gotten used to the idea that Apple has a trivial market share--or that desktop and laptop PCs are still dominant when it comes to the computing devices people use--neither of which is the case right now. Apple's market share could go either way, but the number of PCs sold now appears to have entered a consistent decline, while tablets and smartphones are unquestionably still on the upswing.
You didn't really get my meaning. People normally try to use the same app on all of their devices -- phones, tablets and computers. So, most of the users who use mixed platforms will choose the apps available on all of their devices, thus the majority of iTunes Radio users are those who own only Apple devices. Among the 8% iPhone owners (take feature phone owners into consideration), at most only 1/4 of them don't have a Windows computer or an Android tablet, if you multiply 8% to 1/4, that results in 2% in the end.
I see what you're getting at, but even assuming you're correct that people are likely to use the same service on all their devices, I would still wager that it's highly unlikely that your back-of-the-envelope estimate is correct.
Given that the lowest of any of the numbers is the Mac users, at 7%, that would be the baseline (assuming, of course, that everyone in the world has a PC, which isn't the case, but we're talking about people with a good enough internet connection to listen to internet radio here). But Mac users are almost certainly not going to be a random cross-section of cell-phone purchasers; I would wager a large sum of money that they're drastically more likely to purchase an iPhone than the average Windows user. So with 15% of all smartphones being Apple in general (feature phones don't even count, since people aren't listening to music on them, and if someone is using a non-radio and non-phone portable device to listen to music, it's almost certainly an iPod), you'd be starting at 1% of people being pure-Apple if it was randomly distributed (or higher on account of feature phone users with iPods, but no internet connection on those, so not relevant to the current discussion). Double the average iPhone purchasing incidence for Mac users would result in your 2% incidence, but I'd wager it's significantly more than double.
There's also the growing number of people--mostly outside the US, admittedly--who don't even own a "traditional" computer, so whatever smartphone (or tablet) they own is their computing platform. Because a lot of them are in poorer countries, most are probably using Android, but there's also Japan, for example, where Macs are rare but PCs in general are much less common than the US, and the iPhone just went from 15% market share to 35%, so there are probably a significant number of people for whom it's their primary computing platform.
And even setting all that aside, you're operating under the assumption that if somebody has a PC at home and an iPhone in their pocket they are automatically going to listen to Pandora because they're running it on their Windows machine, and acting as if iTunes Radio doesn't run on Windows. This is doubly mistaken; some percentage of them will never listen to music on their computer but will on their phone, and more importantly a lot of them are already using iTunes on their computer to manage music for their iPhone, so they have the option of using it for iTunes Radio on their PC anyway. No guarantee they will, but I wouldn't bet against it.
So even if every one of the iPhone users in the world has a PC at home, they still all have the option of using iTunes Radio on all their devices. It's only the Android users that don't.
Heck, I know a few Windows users who don't own any Apple devices and still use iTunes to rip CDs or buy music.
So far it's inconsequential, but I'm sure the apple fanboys will come up with some excuse:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57...doing-just-fine/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=title
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57...doing-just-fine/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=title